Who's side does Veeky Forums take ?

Who's side does Veeky Forums take ?

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In a choice between the two, Bakunin.

I take a third choice, because I love Freedom and hate statism

Neither.

Pick one or the other and put your pants on

There's no difference between Marxism and Left-'anarchism'. In the end, big gubmint is gonna take your hard earned property and give it to lazy blacks

Marx, but mainly for the 1844 Manuscripts and Capital. Otherwise, I always choose Merton and Day.

Any recommendations on what to read from Bakunin?

...

>he took le bait

Bakunin was a much more interesting person, but Marx was right

>I love freedom
>but let's allow slavery lmao

Marx was so right on so many things, it's unsettling

The average black person works much harder than you do, Charles

>poor people are lazy

So confused over how that bullshit still flies

I without a doubt prefer marxs crotique of capitalism. Plus Bakunin was a pedophile.

does anyone have the pics of marx tripping ?

>Love freedom and hate statism
Sounds like Bakunin is your man.

>he was a witch.
>he was a jew.
>he was a communist.
He did nothing wrong

Marx is a meme and if people read Bakunin they would know hes superior. Marx coasted off the other Hegelians.

They both had good ideas

Who libertarian marxist here?

In the end, Bakunin was correct. All the major left-wing parties in Europe have been co-opted.

>thinking Murray "Sell those lolis in a hurry" "Sex slaves make me very hard" Rothbard actually cared about freedom

Otto von Bismarck remarked, upon hearing of the split at the First International, "Crowned heads, wealth and privilege may well tremble should ever again the Black and Red unite!"

Actually, also.

AAH FUCK IT

YOU'RE ALL KIKES

>posts on Veeky Forums
>somehow manages to fuck up whose and who's

Kill yourself, OP.

Boring.

whose*
ftfy

...

a nonentity, means nothing to me
are mosley's books worth reading at all?

The me^2 side.

Fixed this for you friend

the one with the funny beard

Your ignorance on the subject is truly breathtaking.

I'm sorry... really. It wasn't my intention to deprive you of your precious Spirit. I know you need all you can get of it so you can hold your breath for as long as you painstakingly are capable of till Utopia finally comes. (Hang in there, it's right there on the horizon!)

Marx. Anarchism is too idealist.

>too idealist

What does this mean?

Poors and blacks are scientifically proven to have lower IQs. They are holding us all down imo. Imagine what we high-IQ patrician innovators could achieve if we could just cut out the gibsmedats and let Darwin sort them out.

>scientifically proven

Foucault please help us

Society is based on ideas or material relations. Or in the case of Marxism both which is why it is superior to anarchism

Yeah I'm sure if Tyrone wasn't across town minding his own business you'd be applying your "High-IQ" to something other than wanking and anime forums

No thanks, I'd take Science and Reason over Bullshit

>implying they weren't both tools of Manzzini

How can you guys still believe that marxism isn't overrated

Neither, I hate reds.

Basic Bakunin, God and the State
pic related

>"Of two evils, choose neither." - G.K. Chesterton

I have made the correct choice.

human nature exists 100%

You could've at least Googled what Stirner meant by spooks before making a fool out of yourself.

Good thing this is Veeky Forums and not r/books, huh?

:^)

>Die Anarchie, das ist das große Paradepferd ihres Meisters Bakunin, der von allen sozialistischen Systemen nur die Aufschriften genommen hat
R E K T
E
K
T

Marx and Bakunin share the same views on capitalism. Where they differ is in the system they each recommend as a replacement.

Was macht das wahr?

But the whole point of Marx's socialism is that people's labor is owned by themselves rather than by property owners, so the fact that people differ widely in abilities in no way invalidates his theories.

His.

Literally who?

All libertarian ideologues are actually reptoid shapeshifters conspiring to enslave humanity

Marx was right for the conditions in which he lived but his works are essentially useless as a guide to moderating or achieving a just society in the modern age due to globalism and the advancement of technology.

His critique of capitalism is timeless, however, and his works should be studied and used as a basis for forming a more modern framework for which to build a better society - because even if the specifics are no longer correct, the core spirit of it is spot on.

Marxist interpretations of History, meanwhile, need to just fucking die off already.

>globalism and the advancement of technology
Marx had a very 19th century critique. Postindustrial societies and growth of objectively meaningless jobs divorced from the creation of wealth require a whole new appraisal. Though the same contradictions of capitalist society give as much fuel as ever.
How do you get to Marxism as revolutionary ideology without Marxism as history though? And what is wrong with class reductionism?

Capitalists are scientifically proven not to produce value themselves. They are holding us all down imo. Imagine what us same high-IQ patrician innovators could achieve if we could just cut out the coercive property relations and let social need sort them out.

>Marxist interpretations of History, meanwhile, need to just fucking die off already.
Why? Do you think dialectical method is wrong?

>His critique of capitalism is timeless, however
This is a meme, and you know it

meant for

What the fuck is a "meme", in your twisted mind?

All marxists and non-marxists socialists are fetishists of human slavery.

Le Marx was right about the problem but not the solution may may. The only solution to the Marxist critique is the destruction of the double sided value form. abolishment of private property. It's almost like you have never read him and are just spouting off whatever cliche you happened to read on reddit

>Thinks marx was right.
>Decries Marxist historical theory.

wew

It's not slavery if you sign a contract.

Capitalism is the system that makes most sense from a Darwinian perspective. Statism fucks with the natural order, much like the selfish gene seeks to replicate itself so does the individual pursue his rational self interest. Socialism is inherently dysgenic, it encourages the unfit to breed and promotes unsustainable population growth in the third world

I swear this fucking naturalist appeal for social darwinism is the most IDIOTIC shite

read
a
fucking
book
moron

>Marx was right for the conditions in which he lived but his works are essentially useless as a guide to moderating or achieving a just society in the modern age due to globalism and the advancement of technology
what? advancement of technology plays a huge part in his analysis

Bakunin > Marx, but they're both pretty shit.

Does logic 'trigger' you?

I, for one, would rather live in a world based on science and rationality over one based on feels.

>unsustainable population growth in the third world
Certain problems of terminology aside, where are you talking about? Developing countries tend to have a weak as shit state apparatus and then surely social darwinism "just works :^)" in your opinion.

Capitalism encourages lazy leeches to flourish by robbing actual working people of the fruit of their labor.

*tips surplus value*

As-Salaam-Alaikum my fellow traditionalist. May Allah be with us as we redpill those modernist Europeans!

We have been subsidizing the shit out of them for decades with free food and gibsmedats. Encouraging them to breed like rabbits and then come knocking on our door when they realise they can't get enough. They need us but we don't need them. it follows that the most rational and humane option would be to let nature run its course before this whole situation gets out of control.

Were it not for global capitalism and colonialism, there would not be a third world overpopulation problem.

Wow, you are utterly clueless about how the real world actually works.

If it's so easy being a capitalist why don't y'all leftists go start a fucking business instead of just whining about muh injustice down in your mother's basement?

>why don't people just exploit workers instead of whining about worker exploitation?

Wait, are there actually unironic Marxists still around?

>We have been subsidizing the shit out of them for decades with free food
lmfao where do you think all the urbanized cheap labour we use comes from genius
legitimately good troll, you sure got me going at first but "science and rationality" was over the top

If it's so easy to eat meat, why don't y'all vegetarians start a slaughterhouse. Checkmate, hippies.

>Darwinian perspective
What is this, even? Natural selection is a mechanism. It is merely how populations' heritable characteristics respond to environmental pressure.
Evolution is not a ladder with "more" and "less" evolved as distinctions that can be made with any substance. There is only more/less survivable and reproducible in a given context.

cdc.gov/malaria/about/biology/sickle_cell.html

Selective pressures favor sickle cell disease in high-incidence malaria regions. Sickle cell disease is not better than normal hemoglobin.

>let nature run its course

Seriously you /pol/tard pseuds have no understanding whatsoever of science

>If it's so easy being a capitalist
>Why don't members of a class who lack the assets to subsist off just the product of their assets try to subsist off the product of their assets?
>implying anyone can freely choose not to when beyond that critical mass
>implying money ever sleeps

Bakunin was right but for the wrong reasons, most of his attacks on Marx were just /pol/ tier ad hominems. Marx would have been best if he just dropped the mic with the Theses On Feuerbach:
> The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
All the positive economic analysis and theory was pointless by Marxs own logic since revolution is eminent to the development of the productive forces

As Blanqui puts it much better than Marx in his Manual for an Armed Insurrection:
marxists.org/reference/archive/blanqui/1866/instructions1.htm
> These heroes of the inkstand profess the same scorn for the sword as officers for their slices of bread and butter. They do not seem to suspect that force is the only guarantee of freedom; that people are slaves wherever the citizens are ignorant of art of soldiery and give up the privilege to a caste or a corporate body.
> In the republics of antiquity, among the Greeks and Romans, everyone knew and practiced the art of war. The professional soldier was an unknown species. Cicero was a general, Caesar a lawyer. By taking off the toga and donning the uniform, they would begin as colonel or captain and would acquit themselves ably. As long as it is not the same in France, we will remain civilians fit to be cut down at mercy of the officer caste.
> Thousands of the educated young, working-class and bourgeois tremble under a detested yoke. To break it, do they think of taking up the sword? No! The pen, always the pen, only the pen. Why the one and not the other, as the duty of a republican requires? In times of tyranny, to write is fine, to fight is better, when the enslaved pen remains powerless. Eh bien, no! They publish a pamphlet, then go into prison, but they do not think of opening a manual of military tactics, to learn there in twenty-four hours the trade which constitutes all the power of our oppressors, and which would put in our hands our revenge and their punishment.

Inshallah brother

>Seriously you /pol/tard pseuds have no understanding whatsoever of science
no man it's how you get factz instead of feelz that's what ben stiller says
we're post ideology now just going for the TRUTH

>all these flag code violations

science dun care

Marx obviously, this is Veeky Forums

It sounds stupid but alt-right kids like him have me a little worried. They're creating a whole new ideology that mixes the absolute worse elements of fascism, traditional conservatism and proletarian capitalism. Even if they remain a niche group I'm frightened that parts of their ideology trickling down into mainstream right-wing politics.

>proletarian capitalism
*propertarian capitalism oopsie

if it makes you lose any remaining belief you have in representative democracy that's one good thing that comes out of your fear

the realization that I couldn't complain about the ways in which imbeciles might try affect my life and the lives of others without also disowning any legitimizing means of control that they would utilize was a big step towards radicalization for me

I just want an eternal Tito to take power and suppress nationalists and reactionaries while we all shop at co-ops and live in public housing ;-;

no time for nostalgia now only for theory and dangerous dreams

Fuck that gay shit

>Veeky Forums is the same person
Wew lad

We're all Marxists and Stirnerites here, if you're not you need to GTFO back to

Has there been any new socialist theories since the 20th century? It seems like they keep digging up old shit without even trying to challenge or modify it.

Murray Bookchin's libertarian municipalism and Occalan's democratic confederalism