Computer science

>Computer science
>Not a meme
Pick one.
springer.com/engineering/computational intelligence and complexity/journal/12293

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computer science for 90k/year please

Undergrad?
Probably 60K or 80K at best.
You can study hot topics like ML/DM in grad school and get 120K to 160K/year for R&D jobs though.

It's not actually about meme at all. Fucking shithrad.

If you want to get paid to be a cog, facebook, google etc can pay like 120k+ straight out of undergrad. And that was a few year ago. It's probably more now.

>facebook, google etc can pay like 120k+ straight out of undergrad

>He thinks that facebook is going to hire him

Your delusion is tough. The driving of hiring from big companies like facebook or google is not what degree you got.

You either:
Did an amazing thesis or some other achievement when it comes to programming that attracted the eyes of the companies
or
You graduated from an Ivy and had the RNG of being the one chosen.

And I say RNG because every year thousands upon thousands of CS majors graduate from Ivies and they are all as qualified as the other, because they are all undying nerds, and yet many of them do not end up in this big corporations. Most of them will be taken by small start ups that will be nice, sure, but will not pay you 120k topkek.

> And that was a few year ago. It's probably more now.

You are paid for the unique service you can provide. The less unique your service, the less you are paid. Famous football players are paid millions upon millions because they offer top physical skill that entertains billions and they offer brand recognition that is, in the end, what sells merchandise.

Your local Mc Donald's pays their cashier shit because literally anyone could do that job, given that they knew how to push buttons and do some arithmethic.

I hope we can agree on that economic fact.

That implies that the more available programmers are, the less they will be paid.

>inb4 I'm a computer scientist, not a programmer.
A facebook developer is not a top scientist doing social research, you program a fucking website ffs. That's not exactly rocket science.

s3.amazonaws.com/media.dth/30149_compscionlinef.jpg

It basically says that the enrollment of people in CS has increased 400% from 2010 and 2015, and it has a growing trend so if you were to use that data to predict the outcome of 2016 then it would roughly be about 600%

You may feel free to research similar data points, they all point to roughly the same trend.

Cont.

If we take our economic fact and then plug in that the number people with "CS skills" are higher then the result is that CS wages are going down.

Imagine you go into Google offices and claim that your skilsl are worth 120k a year.

Well, pajeet will do the same work for 40k and medical insurance.

Can you prove you offer something Pajeet doesn't? No, you can't. He has a degree from Harvard and learned everything you learned, probably better.

Therefore Pajeet gets hired and you go back to the thrash.

And this is ignoring the fact that CE, EE, Math, Physics and other degrees whose graduates actively pursue careers in the mainstream software industry exist.

>inb4 well then those degrees are shit too!

Except no. EEs can go be engineers. CEs can go to intel and do hardware, a much more complex skill that is less common. Math people can go be actuaries, statisticians and even mathematicians.,

The software industry is one big bubble and for some reason you are the only one who built their house right on top of it.

I wonder what will happen when it finally pops.

What is RNG?

To get a job at google you have to know your data structures and algorithms inside out and be able to go through 5 interviews or so of them.

I heard (not sure if totally true) that most jobs at google don't require specific algorithm knowledge as they use libraries for when they need them. That the people they hire are 'overqualified' for most of their coding jobs.

>What is RNG?
Literally random number generator but if you say something is RNG then you mean something is randomly generated, or just random.

My point was that every Ivy graduate has the same qualifications, literally, and all of them go immediately to these huge corporations and not all of them get hired.

If some were hired and some weren't, but they all had the same qualifications, then you know that were was some traditional "pick the one with the bigger boobs" or "the whitest" or whatever. Another factor that has even less to do with your education.

> to go through 5 interviews or so of them.

This is irrelevant. Every CS degree holder knows data structures and algorithms in and out. I've seen the curriculums and you do these things literally from freshman to senior.

Yet, not all CS graduates are hired at these companies. There is again, some RNG involved, because you all have the same qualification.

>That the people they hire are 'overqualified' for most of their coding jobs.

That is the sad reality of the entire world, actually. Every university graduate is overqualified for their job.

I will literally never use topology or differential geometry at my job (programmer) but there I am.

Anyways. As I've concluded, when it comes down to the bloated degrees like CS, who gets hired and who doesn't becomes a matter of who has the most luck.

You know algorithms? So does that guy. You did an amazing senior thesis that got praise from all your professor? Well Rakesh did 3 different projects for his thesis and got international recognition for all of them.

etc. etc.

A degree in CS does not lead to 120k starting. That is ridiculous.

I don't know why you're so mad about this, but what I said is true based on personal experience and experience of my peers. I'm not saying everyone with CS degree can get a high paying job out of school, but it's really not that hard to get a job a google or facebook or linkedin or airbnb. You just have to do well enough in the interviews -- which aren't super hard if you've ever read the Cormen book and have written some non-trivial software before.

Maybe it might be hard to get an interview if you didn't go a famous school; I don't know much about experiences of people who didn't graduate from MIT, CMU, Stanford etc.

Good points thanks. Thought I was in /g/ for a second and had to check it was actually Veeky Forums

>every Ivy graduate has the same qualifications

lmao

Keep in mind that a 1BR in San Francisco is like $2500+ these days though.

I can't understand why you get the impression that I'm mad.

It is 11:49 PM, I have nothing to do and this is the only interesting thread on Veeky Forums that happens to be discussing something I'm knowledgeable at.

Long threads do not equal mad, and I don't see any other reason you would see me as mad, as I haven't gone calling people motherfuckers and shit.

>it's really not that hard
> You just have to do well enough in the interviews -- which aren't super hard

Do you understand that these are my points?

You are saying that it is easy because their interviews are easy, if you just read CLRS.

Well, do you think you are the only guy in the world who has read CLRS? I've read it too and I'm not even a CS major.

Everyone has done it. Millions of people are qualified to be programmers at google, and yet they are only employers of maybe a couple thousand programmers.

Do not think too highly of yourself because if something seems too easy, then it's because it is too easy and everyone can and will do it.

Can you say why this is not the case?

Every STEM guy at an Ivy is the same, 4,0 GPA all across type of nerd who never stops raping his books.

They all have 4,0 GPAs, they all have internships because of uni connections, they all have solo projects because of interest.

They are all as qualified as each other.

>calling computer science a meme.

im nowhere near a CS person and i know you are just bitter as fuck. its fucking retarded how well CS people are treated for their knowledge. we are all envious. It literally doesnt matter how much of a meme their field is.

Well, I live in the Bay Area, and the thing is, every company I talk to is STILL struggling to hire good programmers. I don't understand why there aren't more of them to be honest. I agree with you that what I do for a living doesn't require a lot of skill in particular. You're right that it will probably all coming tumbling down at some point, but the reality is that RIGHT NOW you can definitely and easily make six figures as a programmer straight out of undergrad.

Though, I will say most people I've interviewed from India are fucking awful. I don't understand what is fucking is going on at IIT, but so many people with undergrad degrees from India are not able to solve simple problems.

>I'm not even a CS major.
Me too. My degree is math.

nigga, i'm an ivy STEM major and like nobody gets 4.00s, lol, that's crazy talk

ones who go to grad school from ivy are pretty crazy though, but those vary on the major...

>Be french developer
>Don't live in Paris
>Bachelor degree: 24,000€/year (~16,000 after taxes)
>Master degree: 28,000-32,000€/year (no idea how much after taxes, but you do the same job as a Bachelor degree or even an easier job)

>Be garbage man in any mid-sized french city: ~26,000€/year

In France, if you own a bachelor degree in computer science you earn less than the local garbage man. No matter how talented you are or how many open source projects you were involved with.

I majored my promotion, got my Bachelor degree, looked for a boss. They all offered something ranging from 24k-25k€ a year, which is shit. I did not want a master degree because it's pretty much two useless years: marketing, management, plus some meme specialization like Big Data or InfoSec...

24k-25k€ a year is below the french median salary. Which mean your in the poor half of the pleb.

Be sent with the monkies, do monkies projects, two years pass, try to get a raise, don't get raise. Quit job. Seek a new boss, everyone offer 24k-25k € +10% (because now I have two years of experience). Get hired, leave after trial because I'm unhappy with monkey shit. Be on welfare, do nothing for two years. Think about suicide.

Decide to go back to uni', get accepted again, study math.

>computer science for 90k/year please

Computer science for r9k/year

>not even one pepe posted itt
sci i am disappoint

I doubt that this could happen if you were any good

Why not get a job as a garbage man?

French system is very peculiar.
There is so much unemployment in France you can't really negociate your salary, if you don't agree with the initial term... well "see you byebye".
And nowadays french universities VOMIT thousands and thousands of codemonkey, yes I might look like a total asshole calling people codemonkey but I tell it how it is. Wage stagnate or even crash in some fields.

You're either part of a centralized and strong management system powered by cocksucking (i.e you're a manager) or you're a tool. Tools have little worth, there is plenty of them (see unemployment) and they're interchangeable (see unemployment again).
They're is no "Star Programmer" in France, the system doesn't allow it, the system is built so no one can reach such recognition. From there you have three options, you build up your cocksucking skills, you hack the system to make yourself indispensable (if you can't be part of the solution be part of the problem), notice this often involve studing cocksucking AND deprecated tech', you accept your faith and watch american TV shows on Netflix once you get home.

In the USA you can go and say: "-Look at me! I'm an outsanding faggot! Look at my github repo! I gave talk in several conventions!
-HIRED!"

In France it's more like: "-Look at me! I'm an outsanding faggot! Look at my github repo'! I gave talk in several conventions!
-...check... your... ego... at the door... and leave"

Plus wages in France are fixed "by convention". Conventions are made by a very small number of big players and all other players in the sector (IT, Finance, Marketing, whatever..) adopt the conventions.
"-You're have a bachelor degree? You want to be a developer? Let me check the Holy Convention for a second... Mmmh yes... coefficient 150. That mean you get 24k€
-I speak 66 differents languages even dead ones and you can treat me like toilet paper if you want.
-No.
-Pls.
-No.
-may be... I... suck your dick ?
-Ok... 24.5K€ *unzip pant*"

Can't you just go work somewhere else?

It's all the same everywhere except in Paris. But Paris is a terrible place to live.

The best option is to leave the country; Germany, Netherland and the UK are decent options, or you do something else.

That's what I meant, just move to another country.

In Germany the situation is pretty much reversed; Apparently there's a huge deficit in employees.

American here. I lived in Paris for a year (in the 5eme); I don't understand how you Frenchies even do capitalism. All the people I saw who weren't in school were lazy as fuck and would sit at cafes literally all day on a weekday; Metro strikes all the time -- have to rent a fucking velib the night before if you need to get to work tomorrow and there is a strike; can't get fired from your job for anything; vacation 6 weeks a year.

La Defense seems like it might have some good tech jobs though.

You should really try to see if you can get a USA company to hire you. They are usually pretty good at sponsoring H1-B's if you get hired. Like it's been said in this thread big tech companies in California will pay 6 figures (USD) for programmers.

webapps.gatech.edu/cfcampus/adors/commencement/salary_report_result.cfm?termcode=201502&college=TOTAL&level=1&surveyid=105&Submit=Submit

>90k+bonuses starting
>anywhere I want
>tfw