Why Christianity?

Libertarianism is totally compatible with christianity you retard, about half of libertarians are at least deists.

Good fucking post

>even an Atheist can admit that following the moral and ethical precepts as taught by Christ will bring about the kingdom of god in this world
literally satanic thinking

Incoherent gibberish.

You sound like the unseen unmentioned pharisee watching Christ and the Samaritan woman.

The teachings of Christ are the water of life, and supersede faction and religion and faith. "Accepting Christ" isn't accepting the faith imposed by the churches claiming to represent him, its doing as he would have done to the least of his children.

Christianity is the perfect religion for the modern bourgeoisie white liberal. It's a religion that teaches that all of humanity is loathesome, that even the subtlest stir of sexuality is an offense against God, that even a hand raised in your own defense is anathema. It's a religion by, of, and for well to do cuckolds who want a manifestation for their guilt at living easy lives.

In much of the western world, even those who profess not to believe in Christianity live in a mire of Christian values. They loathe violence to the point where they proudly boast of being disarmed by their governments, or of their lenient prison systems that give mass murders comfortable, cushioned prison cells. They brag of their tolerance of foreign people who despise them, as if this were a virtue. They often apply Christian values to Christianity itself, happy to indict it of all sorts of wrongdoings while searching out foreign religions for the faintest shred of Christian doctrine. Who but western white liberals would ever be dumb enough to call Islam the 'religion of peace', when Mohammed was literally a warlord and Jesus was literally a pacifist martyr?

For better or worse, it's the foundation of modern morality as we know it.

>Basically, even an Atheist can admit that following the moral and ethical precepts as taught by Christ will bring about the kingdom of god in this world, and if they happen to be wrong, the next.

Like that guy said.
Although don't bs yourself about the 'afterlife' unless you associate it with your lineage and legacy in the world after your time has ended.

While I've never read the Bible, I've paid attention to the key aspects of what the religion preaches considering it's hardly what those who worship truly practice. When I was younger I threw it all out the window as fear riddled, adult fantasy. But as an adult, I've taken the concepts of Christ, the Trinity, heaven and hell, and the sins, and found they all coincide with the fundamentals of a relative, and technically isolated, existence very well. I've never been more comfortable being alone my head than I have after realizing how well those metaphors all overlap in a nodal, or polar, existence.
I still believe the religion as a whole is absolute nonsense as far as how it is pushed upon people and the antiquity of many of its simpler ideas. And as it stands, it is more of a weapon than it is a foundation. The wolf and sheep metaphor works perfectly for that idea. The same can be said for Islam though.

>will bring about the kingdom of god in this world
Get thee behind me, Satan

I see the Trinity as:
The father: the world as how you adapted to it
The son: you
The spirit: the quantum world (the 'how' and 'why' of existence)(subconsciousness)

Tolstoy and Joyce were morons, got it.

>found they all coincide with the fundamentals of a relative, and technically isolated, existence very well
I'm curious, how do you see them as relating, and how has it helped you be more comfortable alone in your head?

>the vast majority of the greatest thinkers have been christian

Did the Bible inform their ideas? Because im pretty sure nothing isaac Newton made came from Christain teachings. Hell when Aquinas wrote his works he had a copy of Aristotle's ethics on one side and Averroes commentary on the other.

If that's what you "got", you may have Down's.

This post was obviously chosen by providence.

>christianity is for morons
>mentions people who are christian, and thus, morons
>backpedals

Ur so smrt

Isaac Newton was an alchemist and kooky black magician, so Im pretty sure he'll be alright.

Can you be a little more specific? I really want to avoid a wall of text filled with things you don't exactly want to hear to spare both your eyes and my wrists.

Predetermination is entirely a Protestant idea

Catholics are entirely behind free will

You're on the right path user though, ignore the haters

The greatest thinkers have all been human as well, but not every human is a great thinker.

Anyway, I am sure it has more to do with what is culturally acceptable than with any actual critical thought or seeking out of other religions. It's kind of like how most Americans think there are only democrats and republicans when there are quite a few alternatives out there.

Then why are the modern bourgeoisie white liberals actually fedora-level atheists?

It was never implied. Read the statement he originally replied to. Christianity isn't for morons. That some make such sweeping and utterly retarded statements followed by blathering about fallacious reasoning is one of the major causes why people hate internet atheists.

It was never implied that being christian is a prerequisite for being a great thinker. The brazen and belligerent misreading is another reason why people hate internet atheists.

check out Catholicism they believe in free will determinism is for chumps who cant handle personal responsibility

Because they have adopted Christian values without realizing it. I think it's worth appreciating how most fedora atheists never criticize the moral preachings of Christ, they'll constantly rail against creationism, or miracles, or the existence of heaven or hell, or Leviticus instead. The idea that Christ is a figure of moral perfection is almost axiomatic, even when what he was preaching is basically self destruction in the face of adversity.

As much as people like to talk shit about Leviticus, it was entirely composed of rules ordinary people could live their whole lives following. Everyone is worthy of eternal torment according to Jesus, even if you so much as look at a woman and want to fuck her. He indicts humanity merely for existing, much like modern bourgeoisie white liberals do with the society they thrive in. You know these things which people have reviled for decades? Racism? Sexism? Well, it turns out they're everywhere. Pervading every facet of our social order, from the politicians we elect who are white and male right down to wearing clothing that might be perceived as being appropriated from a non-western culture.

It's the kind of masochism only the people who have lived lives of nothing but comfort can afford to dally in.

Christianity *is* for morons, though. That's the whole fucking point.

This can be interpreted as a way of Shitting on Shakespeare.

No, it cannot.

Except Christian teaching is that sex is a gift from God and to be fully enjoyed in a consecrated union called marriage.

I mean it as shitting on Christian writers. You shit on them when you say they are morons.

Also you're confusing Protestantism with Christianity that came before it. I agree that Protestantism is to blame for a lot of modern ills but it itself is a corruption of true Christian teaching.

That isn't right at all, in fact what your claiming is so far from Christian thought almost every sect would claim it blasphemy.

There is no true Christian teaching. Christianity has been evolving and morphing according to internal, external, theological and secular factors since the days of Paul and the apostles.

No.

If someone calls you a moron are they shitting on you?

I guess Calvinists are blasphemers now, someone needs to tell them.

Look up Gnostic Christian, I think that you might get something out of that

Not necessarily.

You'll get a lot more out of non-theistic religions.

moron.

Lying isn't helping your cause, user.

I'm an agnostic because I was born and raised in a Christian sex cult which abused kids back in the day. Next time don't misrepresent someone.

You are the moron, you most likely thought I was talking about agnosticism, while I was talking about Gnostic Christianity which is completely different, which involves rejection of the material world and the creator God, it is very similar to Buddhism. So maybe look something up before making an ass of yourself.

Calvinists are heretics though.

I didn't misrepresent anyone.

Riight.

>> your cause.

I apologize I thought it was my number, I miss read, now I look like the ass, I'm sorry. I was just ready for a fight because most people try to correct you for saying gnostic thinking you men agnostic. Sorry again.

If you're pulled towards Christianity, it's because you grew up with a very specific idea of God and what he looks like.

Unfortunately, religion isn't as much a calling as it is a tradition and it just depends where you were born. And most religions, including Christianity, say that people who weren't lucky enough to be born and raised in an area that taught that religion, are going to hell.

I don't think I called you a moron. I'm sorry.

What I said was correct.

It's fine. That's one of the things about being user.

You heavily imply that I'm a Christian by saying Don't lie, and It's bad for your cause. You misrepresented me, and I corrected you.

Predeterminism is a widely misunderstood concept. God does not hand pick who's good enough to get into his club and who isn't. He loves all of his creation and desires for all people to be saved but by his omniscient nature, he must know who will and won't reject or accept his love. To us, because we don't know the future until it becomes the present, it's all still free will to us. Of course Catholics completely abuse free will to insist that you can buy your way into God's favor on the merit of your good works which is not in any part of Christianity's teachings. All men are sinners deserving of God's wrath but all have been offered the same opportunity for salvation through the ultimate sacrifice. Any attempt to earn your own way through works instead of faith is nothing but human pride

>You heavily imply that I'm a Christian
No, I did not.

Whatever. I'm stopping because it's offtopic at this point.

The bottom line is that Christianity is for morons.

>Christianity, say that people who weren't lucky enough to be born and raised in an area that taught that religion, are going to hell.

Apart from it's literally the exact opposite, if you've never heard about Jesus it's almost a go-to heaven free pass.

Where do you read this shit man?

Source (chapter & verse)?

>Theology discussion
>Begs for a biblical quotation as their primary source

people being nice to each other and doing moral and ethical things is human nature. That preceded your "kingdom of God". Do you interpret every selfless act as divine will?

prodigious n repetitious

>doing moral and ethical things is human nature
Is this bait? Without God there cannot be morality. As for human nature I think you must have lived a very sheltered life if you think it comes naturally.

>deeds without faith

Pro-di-gi-ous!

>Without God there cannot be morality.

You mean WITH god there cannot be morality. If you are doing something for an extrinsic reason -- to please a supernatural deity, to get into heaven, etc -- then by definition you are not acting on moral grounds.

>That preceded your "kingdom of God". Do you interpret every selfless act as divine will?
You do realize that God, even hypothetically, existed long long before Man?
Somebody doesn't understand Christianity.

It's for goodness' sake and no other.

It can't be for goodness sake, by definition. That's why "faith-based ethics" is an oxymoron. Such an endeavor is logically impossible.

>projecting logic onto divinity
This is why no one takes you seriously

Christianity dwells pretty heavily on freewill, probably more than any other religion.

...

>there is literally no reason behind God's commands but they also lead to a better world if you follow them
Hmm

>I realized I was trapped in my own subjectivity and this freaked me out so I sought any variety of mental gymnastics that could make me less scared

>protestant detected
look laddy the holy apostolic church does have a pretty cohesive set of beliefs

Dear OP, some reading suggestions for you:
Read Paul's Letter to the Romans
Read 'On Christian Liberty by Martin Luther
Read Fear and Trembling by Kierkegaard

Better to read and reflect on your own. Happy journey.

>mental gymnastics

My experience with God is more relational than intellectual.

...

My relationship with Satan is more relational than intellectual. This means that nothing you say can dissuade me from it and I'll just accuse you of being closed-minded when you try. You'll be sucking my balls for eternity when we overrun the world and the kingdom of "heaven."

Yeah well, my suggestions were based on OPs specific dilemma about freedom and God's will.

But maybe a reading of Job coupled with the Grand Inquisitor chapter of Karamazov, which is on that list, could also be relevant. In relation to the existence of evil, pre-determination of suffering? Maybe add Girard's book on Job.

...

>le unfashionable hat meme
Christian """"intellectuals""""

>repeats point throughout 4 hours despite numerous anons calling the bullshit on his initial post

This guy's right, there are definite, observable causes as to why people hate internet atheists.

Define "moron"

The Council of Florence and St Augustine would disagree

I bet you think catholicism/orthodoxy was there from the get go and played whack a mole with different heretical groups in its infancy.

In reality, it was just one sect that won out over the others by deliberately corrupting scripture and having friends in high places

>In its statements of this doctrine, the Church expressly teaches that "it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God"; that "outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control"; and that "they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life."

No it doesn't.

>I bet you think catholicism/orthodoxy was there from the get go and played whack a mole with different heretical groups in its infancy.
Most core beliefs and practices, as well as those which later on became dogmas were present in the early church, yes.
For more information, read Essay on Development of Christian Doctrine by John Henry Newman, the best theologian of the past two centuries.
>In reality, it was just one sect that won out over the others by deliberately corrupting scripture and having friends in high places
It wasn't one sect, it was the most common which can logically and historically be followed through the authors now known as the Church Fathers.
There's a very clear line between today and the biblical time a Catholic can draw in all areas.

Augustine actually would, although that was one of the few examples of his writings which are in disagreement with the teaching. That is why he believed unbaptized babies go to hell. It was obviously problematic and was never accept for clear reasons.

Just abandon existentialism. It's an adolescent and rebellious mentality that you are better off without. The truth is that you did not create yourself or the world you live in: you did not create your soul, your body, your language, your country, your family, your house, etc. The Existentialist idea that you just spring into existence as a pure nothing that creates itself is a complete hoax. You have an essence/nature that was defined by God and that you have to live in accordance with to be happy. The Existentialist notion of freedom is based on a nominalist metaphysics which sees freedom as the ability to make an arbitrary choice; the classical and Christian notion of freedom is when habitually chooses what is good and what contributes to the flourishing of one's own nature - he who sins, is the slave of sin. Submission to God is freedom; you wouldn't be free if you disobeyed the ten commandments and started stealing and murdering.

As for the credibility of Christianity. Ultimately, reason can only take you so far, you will have to respond to the grace God gives you and choose to believe. However, reason can dismiss Judaism and Islam for you: Judaism because it's pretty damn clear that, if there is a God, he made it explicit that he did not appreciate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, when not long after that crucifixion he levelled Jerusalem to the ground, put an end to the ancient Aaronic priesthood, and scattered the Jews to wander among the nations aimlessly for the next 2000 years. That's Judaism dealt with, not to mention that modern Judaism is a post-Christian reaction to Christianity and has little continuity with the ancient Israelite religion which was based on the temple and the sacrifice; in fact, Christianity is in true continuity with the Old Testament religion precisely because it has a priesthood and a sacrifice (Catholicism, not Protestant heresy). Islam is ridiculous; it is very clear that Muhammad was a false prophet; he falsified the scriptures, he had no prior prophets to prophesy his coming like Jesus Christ did; he was just a liar and he spread his doctrine through arms, whereas Christianity was spread initially by poor people standing up to the Jews and Roman emperors, and went on to conquer the Roman empire by non-violence.

As for the other religions: there is only one alternative to theism that is even worth considering, and that is pantheism. Reason shows us that there be some first principle which is the source, cause, and principle of all other principles, so it comes down to whether or not we make this first principle transcend the world (theism) or immanent in the world (pantheism). Polytheism is just extremely crude theology and not worth considering. So that leaves you really with the Abrahamic God who transcends the world and who reveals himself, or the Hindu God who is immanent in the world and is revealed by a process of reflection. The problem with the pantheist God is that it ends up in abolishing the distinction between good and evil; if God belongs equally to all things then death is as good as life, ugliness as good as beauty, etc. If God belongs equally to everything then whenever a man is in pain, we should say that "God is in pain". Whenever a man dies, God dies. Whenever a man commits evil, God commits evil. There are plenty of ancient religions beside Hinduism that see evil as a principle within God that is co-equal with the good. Some say that the good is the source of the spiritual realm, and the evil is the source of the material realm. This ends up putting contradiction in God, it destroys his oneness; pantheists like this end up talking about "the good balancing the evil", "life and death, the eternal cycle", etc. The theistic account is that God abhors evil and death, and that evil and death came into the world through a primeval rebellion, and that God promises to restore his creation through redemption. Pantheists don't have the idea of redemption, rather, they have the idea of a "return" to the All, or Source, or Brahman, or whatever. Pantheists always imply that man himself is God or has the very essence of God within himself. Anyhow, Pantheism has awful consequences for morality, but it is very attractive to people because: (1) they want to deify themselves, (2) they want to see God face to face, and imagining that the world or the self is divine allows them to see God, whereas the transcendent theistic God is more hidden, (3) it seems very rational in the sense that we do see in nature a cycle of death and rebirth, which would seem to lead to the idea that death and evil are a necessary part of a cosmic order, rather than a corruption of that order. The end goal of Pantheistic spirituality is the dissolution of the self into the All, the Universe, the Brahman, the pure Nothing, etc.; you lose your identity in being submerged and dissolved into the divine essence. The end goal of theistic spirituality is communion with the Father; you don't lose your personality, rather, your personality is radically affirmed by being brought into communion with the Father, the original Person.

Also, let it be said that there is nothing offensive to reason in Christian cosmology: the omnipotent Creator created all things out of nothing; he created rational creatures with intellect and will, capable of knowing or loving him, and put them in charge over all his non-rational creation; they rebelled against him with their intellect and will, and were banished from his presence and left to suffer their own corruption, and the corruption they brought onto the non-rational world which was under their charge; after years of suffering, he decides to take pity after one man (Abraham) has faith in him; he promises to Abraham that he will save the world through his seed; Jesus Christ, the descendant of Abraham, is the Incarnate God-Man who is able to reconcile God and man; Jesus Christ opens up the way to redemption and eternal life for all men who are willing to be born again and live in him; one day he will come again to judge the living and the dead, divide the good from the evil, give the good their reward and the evil their punishment, and establish peace in the cosmos.

There is nothing here that is offensive to reason. Much of it is a mystery in that it is beyond rational comprehension, but we would expect the ultimate beginning and end of things to be mysterious to us because of the limitations of our intellect.

What in the blue fuck am I reading. You can't be serious

Humanity needs a sacrifice. Something which transforms our suffering.

We need to be remade in the image of God to be in his presence.

You do not find your life by self fulfillment; it is in giving your life to someone that you will find it.

This all applies to Christ.