Is software engineering the biggest nu-male profession...

Is software engineering the biggest nu-male profession? Seems like every other cuck on this site and reddit is a CODER XD. What's up with everyone becoming one these days?

Yes
/thread
saged

What the guy above me said

> What's up with everyone becoming one these days?
good pay
work from home
a skill that is actually useful outside of work, gives ability to hit it big with a decent idea
what's so hard to understand?

Only big brains can code

easiest way to get decent money

web3 dev needed please respond I'm ready to fucking top myself I just can't manage it

sadly yes, it's the classic cuck profession because most nerds and otakus are into programming since they are teens
they don't see pussy in college and have to settle with a roast beef after their 30s

It pays 3-5 times more than typical office jobs. Hell, even as lowly manual QA that click on things all day you make more than government official. Eastern Europe here, just for reference, outsourcing is exploding right now as every American thinks his farting app for iPhone will be the next Facebook.

people who call themselves coders think they can qualify as a software engineer because they did all courses on codecademy and watched youtube videos.

no one on reddit is a professional software engineer

t. unskilled NEET

Betas become coders. Alphas hire coders to make their projects.

>t. Alpha who makes his living hiring devs to make his software

Software Engineer here

I went into .NET and now I have to work with pajeets every single fucking day

Never go into .NET, find something else, do it for your own sanity

I have 600k in crypto and live at home rent free. Stay mad wagie

Uhhh, Neet coder fag here, how do you do this?

Step one move into city of population at least 500k, nobody is hiring beginners remotely and in smaller cities most work is setting up company blogs. Better yet first get job, then move. There should be at least 30 open various junior position in the area at any given time.

>live at home rent free
If you can call that living

This, only people who hate programmers are jealous fucks.

Also implying that all programmers are soyboy numales is retarded. Most (((men))) are soyboy numales now. I've worked with programmers who were elite athletes and total chads. I've also worked with programmers who were trannies and dumbfucks. The one thing that is similar between all of them is they're making a fucking dickton of money.

all engineers are soy boys every single one of them I might was a low test beta. All the chads in IT went for info sys and winded up being the managers of the code monkey soy boys or are systems analysts

Eh you don't need to be an actual software engineer to call yourself a CODER XD I guess. I'm a fucking geologist and I spend 80 % of my time coding shit

This.

How about stuff like github?

This. Fucking this black/white thinking is way too simple of a model for the Real World.

you got lucky. if something ever happens to your funds you're fucked since you have no value as a human being. don't forget it.

On friday we code faggit

>IT one of the fastest growing fields for several years
>people of that generation go to university for that aiming to make money and also to not have to socialize much
>gee why are all the autistic fucks majoring in this?
If you weren't a brainlet you'd already know.

this.
nu-males in this area are nothing more than code-monkeys.
real software engineers, data analysts, BI-analysts are pretty alpha in my experience

seems like it, sit in front of a computer all day while your manager works you like a slave. My old roommate was in software engineering with a 4.0 gpa, but he was an absolute faggot. Dude had huge health problems at 21 (had to take medication daily for everything from blood pressure to other shit) and was also a complete boring fucker. One time he got drunk and tried to fight me too, and I choked his ass out in front of his friends, no larp he wasn't hard to control since he was out of shape and I train submission grappling. he did make good money though, but I mean as a mech E major I am willing to keep my sanity instead

Sorry guys, coding is literally a pajeet job

If a pajeet can do your job, you don't have a good job

lol american pajeets are all doctors and engineers, there's even an Indian governor of louisiana I think. I guess all of those positions are bad jobs according to you

>Veeky Forums is clueless again.

No, web design is. The closer you are to developing at os-level and using higher level math, the closer you are to being a wizard. And then you have archmages who can flawlessly connect low-level processing power to higher level stuff like web.

t. brainlets

>your average coder
>high level math

kek

this is /g/tier elitist fantasy. only a handful of companies in the world need to work on low level architectural stuff, while every business in the world needs websites and/or mobile apps.

I've been at it for a couple of decades. Found a distressed company that was being squeezed into being a subcontractor on account of no money for good information systems. Built systems that made them competitive but not competitive enough to drop millions on software licenses and the training to use them. Still have to be present to collect salary while toilers regularly thank me for making the organization great.

Most coders are cucks who don't understand that they can turn around distressed companies and pull the same shit that financial do while remaining free of oversight because they can't afford someone who can call you on what you do.

Chad programmers study power dynamics, game theory, and learn to project Expert Power & Authority in the workplace. I'd fucking neck myself if I were the guy in OP's picture.

>Chad programmers study power dynamics, game theory, and learn to project Expert Power & Authority in the workplace. I'd fucking neck myself if I were the guy in OP's picture.

Met people like this. Had the displeasure of working with them. They usually produce shit and power-play instead of making the software better. Absolute fucking cancer.

>if anyone from a country of 1.2b people can do your job, you have a shit job

Learn solidity. Go to crypto meetups. Go to business networking meetups. Bring the latter to the former. One of them will shit money into an ICO and hire you to program it at a disgusting premium your presence will make them feel like they are in control of this new thing that they don't understand. Hire some older ESL Chinese programmers to assist you because they won't shit talk their boss to their other boss (you are in a big city right)?

Bonus points if you are a white male who isn't autistic in meetings.

Checked. Also checked that you have no reading comprehension. I said the closer you are to developing at os-level and using higher level math, the closer you are to being a wizard. Considering every language can [though they technically shouldn't] be used to make any program, you could program the whole of Autodesk Maya with nothing but python and then use py2exe and other executable distro tools to put together your finished product. It would be a nightmare, but a ''''coder'''' who can do that is a modern-day euclid.

We're not talking about practicality here. We're talking about skillsets and their respective hodlers.

I don't know why, but game theorists tend to be cunts.

Yes.

Incorrect. I do networking at my job, get paid 90k compared to 60k for the developers. All the network team are white guys who go to the gym and have wifes or gfs, all the developers are pajeets or pasty-white cucks.

Only boring brains can code. Staring at a screen debugging is the most soul sucking things I've ever done. Under Programmer in the dictionary it should just have "tedious job" as a synonym.

Im a software engineer, the team is actually made of all kind of different guys. Some are more nerdy than others. but all around they're all quite cool in their own way.

Advantage is that you get shit done with a bunch of guys. No women to ruin the show. Except those fucking HR and "corporate" girls running around the office for no fucking purpose.

You can get a job anywhere in the world and get paid super well.

I'd say its a super cool job.

LURK MOAR
SAGE & HIDE
GO BACK TO /pol/

"they're all quite cool in their own way."

*tips fedora*

My god you faggots are cringe. Pic related is you and your coworkers.

I live in Europe dipshit, we dont have that level of degeneracy (yet).
We have 2 fat engineers, the rest are fit. Actually the fittest guys are all in the tech team.

>be you
>see someone else doing well with their life and working with people they enjoy
>get upset

hmmmmmmmmmmm
:thinking:

>game theory
Man that made me laugh my ass off

this is not a pol topic faggot, it's discussing a career how is it pol, I hate poltards but creating a pol scapegoat for things you don't like is the same shit they do with jews. stop. also that girl looks horrible

yep, I had to code for my engineering classes, goddamn that shit was boring and repetitive/tedious as fuck. it honestly requires some level of autism to perform day in day out

Even the dog is fat.

>yep, I had to code for my engineering classes, goddamn that shit was boring and repetitive/tedious as fuck. it honestly requires some level of autism to perform day in day out

All work has tedium. Be it repetitive processes or practice so you don't get rusty. People just tend to be selective and have rose-colored view of other professions. Many big-brained have the same data they look at and the same research they carry out day-by-day. The method to the madness is that it produces good results.

Programming can be very interesting, but not only do you have to be ok with doing the repetitive and tedious process of debugging (and doing it well), you have to be building purposeful and complex applications. At least that's how I see it.

you're a fucking autist, probably some civil engineer pleb.

Programming is vital to any significant engineering job nowadays and the better you are the more important you are.

>muh "you are the same as them! XD"
>muh "I'm not a poltard, but..."
Also, you have shit taste.

See, my strategy doesn't involve programming in a team. It involves joining a struggling enterprise and righting it. "The software" in this instance is taking a best fit, free, open source application and developing into something that lets a distressed company punch above its weight class until it is no longer distressed. If you want to reap the same rewards in this company as the MBAs and directors, you'd best understand that you are viewed as nothing more than a resource and that power dynamics enter into pretty much everything these people do.

A programmer can easily make the inner circle after half a decade of programming all of the business practices and building relationships with department heads to integrate them.

This is not for people who want to work their way from junior programmer to architect. This is for people who want to establish positions similar to the ones every programmer had available in the late 80s, early 90s. Back then things were crazy. I kid you not, there was a fucking guy who would wear sweat pants and a t-shirt to his office job. He would habitually piss himself out of sheer mental illness and laziness. That guy was indispensable because the 80s had so few people who could write functional, custom code.

Developers today have no chance unless they're legitimately talented or have studied data sciences. I feel sorry for them and think they could do with insight into what programmers can do outside of startups and blue chip companies.

Aerospace engineer here,

so whats the deal with computer engineers, outside putting together servers and other computer related infrastructure where you're more akin to an electrical engineer, what actual engineering do you guys do? how is a software engineer at say Blizzard similar to someone at Boeing.

What don't you understand? Have you programmed before?

Blue collar brainlet detected.

so how does being a programmer... make you an engineer...

If by that logic all programmers are engineers, then you guys are just a bunch of technical larpers which is my current opinion anyways

Here's a quick system of tiers to explain differences:

Low-Tier: You can design User Interfaces and make them nice and pretty. This goes for websites too. As a front-end developer you're literally an interior decorator. Still, if you're practical and your code is sublime(kek), you're a valuable asset to any software engineering team.

Mid-Tier: Here we start seeing software that isn't very visual (unless specifically intended for visual purposes) and requires more abstract formulation. An example of such visual software would be a game with semi-real physics (this being a catch-all for lighting, motion, collision, etc...) like Overwatch, to use your Blizzard example. The guy who can program the physics engine for Overwatch is pretty much a complete physics nerd already, but he has some leeway in that it isn't a representation of reality.

High-tier: These are the elven gods of programming. Here you have real-world physics simulations, real-world lighting simulations, and all types of complex scientific computations beyond what the common mortal mind ponders. This is the tier for those who rewrite online applications in Haskell, Assembly, and Brainfuck(this one just for fun).

But to put it succintly: It's about complexity, readibility, and neatness of code.

Actually, I left out a bunch of important shit like databases and os-level stuff, but I didn't want to write a blog post.

Software engineers are not engineers

source: mechanical engineer

It's funny everyone wants to be a coder when most people I know hate programming. There's other high paying jobs out there in tech, yet no one seems to know about them.

My brother does design, and he's the lead designer at a large startup. He's been doing design for 5 years, he makes $300k/yr.

My sister's in her 2nd year of university and she just got an internship offer at a startup. The offer is for $28/hr, relocation stipend, and rent stipend for the summer.

>My brother does design, and he's the lead designer at a large startup. He's been doing design for 5 years, he makes $300k/yr.

Design of what? Tell us what your brother studied.

keep lying to youself

he "does design" for 300k

umm right we believe your story

put 'programming microcontrollers in C' in your resume, car manufacturers start contacting you for some reason

UX/UI Designer or just simply Designer, every single tech company in the world needs them (unless the product is not user facing). He's the lead designer so he manages a team of other designers, and spearheads all major design initiatives - he recently finished completely overhauling their website and mobile app's look and feel.

A designer has a huge role, and is responsible for the product's look, feel, and function. They usually come up with pixel-perfect mocks of each screen of a mobile app, or each page of a website. These get handed off to mobile/front-end developers who then implement the designs.

Okay, stay ignorant. Programming is the only position in a tech startup, durr.

anyone who calls himself software engineer without proper academic background is liar

I can see that happening if he works for a big company like Microsoft and he's the lead designer for an Office product or something, but a big startup? Holy shit, color me surprised. Usually startups pay you in pennies and dreams and future equity.

I guess he has good stuff under those 5 years of design.

Software engineer vs developer is pretty much interchangeable. There's no criteria for one vs another, it's just w/e you decide to call yourself.

Engineer: a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works. A software engineer does just that with software.

go back to /sci fag

How misinformed can you be?

Web dev is booming right now dude. Javascript has the largest open source community of any language, that's why the shit changes so fast. I did a lot of low level programming in C during uni but after being assigned a web dev position in my first job with 0 web dev experience I'd have to say this stuff is no joke either. JS Frameworks change so quickly you can never get comfortable.

Startups in SF pay pretty well. I can't speak for other places, as I've seen some of their salaries and it's usually pretty low in comparison. There's lots of startups that are unicorns ($1B+ valuation), and these tend to pay closer to (microsoft/netflix/google/apple/amazon) levels.

Most mid-range developers and designers here get ~$120-140K base. That's not including stock options (which are worthless 95% of the time).

Senior developers and designers can get $140-170K.

Leads/directors can usually get a lot more.

>Uni started us off learning C
>Great for understanding computing languages and how they interact with hardware
>Since then only OO and database languages
>Zero web dev classes, even for electives
But yet there are so many web dev jobs and even opportunities for self employment (building own app/website). Sucks but I guess I'm just going to have to learn that skillset on my own time.

Been working in SF as a dev for 6 years and in over 5 startups, so not very?

>You can design User Interfaces and make them nice and pretty

Most Software Engineers who do backend stuff or write simulations wouldn't know how to make a pretty looking website. Web design is a discipline
in and of itself.

Well, I'm trying to get into it myself so I'm a dirty hypocrite. Still I'm referring more to stuff like Ruby on Rails that attract the vegan nu-male crowd. The people who are arrogant about making a web widget with a search bar. From what I've been learning about Javascript, it's sometimes weirder than Python. I like C and C++ and all the statically typed stuff.

Fuck's sake. How are the downsides to San Fran though? I hear the traffic, hobos, and rent are all ass. The pay sounds good enough to bear the latter a bit though.

It's the most lucrative and biggest burgeoning industry since everything is becoming software driven

If making great money to code shit is nu male then I don't want to be anything else u soygoy

>Staring at a screen debugging is the most soul sucking things I've ever done
Is "soul-sucking" code for "baaaaaaaaawwww the big scary compiler doesn't hold my hands and talk about my feelings with me ;_; wheres my estrogen pills"

Every fag who complains about STEM being "soul-sucking" is an estrogenated faggot who wants more fag feminine pozzed bugman work like teaching retarded japanese children english or some equally stupid shit. Just kys if you can't handle numbers.

gotcha, so pretty much upper level math gods with a strong science understanding is a good software engineer. I can stand behind that I was thinking about it and I suppose attempting to use an all encompassing definition for engineers is kind of a moot point.

working in teams, producing complex systems, and using a scientific method to approach problems is really all an engineer is.

Only unimaginitive brains can code

The kind who have no comprehension of spirituality or creativity. Basically hardcore atheists ...

Part of it is because the stuff changes so fast so they'd have to be changing up their curriculum every semester or two. And someone who was taught it their freshman or sophomore year would be obsolete by the time they graduated. Of course it's not the superficial trendy tech that is important to know, but the core CS fundamentals which don't change.

It's the 21st century equivalent of a carpenter. But the pay is better, an the bar is lower.

Of course, it would still take time and practice to learn. I'm just saying it's not as abstractly challenging as, say, optimized real-time lighting dynamics where you need D E E P knowledge of other disciplines.

Ignore what everyone tells you about higher living cost not being worth it. It's worth it.

If you're looking to live in a good location in the heart of SF, rent for a 1 BR apartment can be $3500. I wouldn't recommend that though, most people here end up renting a 2-3 BR apartment, then splitting it with 1-2 housemates. A 2 BR apartment is usually around $4000, so that's $2K per person.

If you're looking to live a little outside of SF and commute in (usually through BART or the Ferry), then you can usually get a place that's 60% the cost. Commute is usually 40 min, but not as bad as driving since you can just go on your phone or read.

i bet you break into tears at the sight of algebra and cry about how "soul-destroying" calculus is

Javascript is a clusterfuck of a language but it's the current hotness so there's no choice. Certain front end frameworks like Angular 2+ use Typescript which gets compiled to JS which is a bit nicer to use.

yes, a place where you can not enter

Thanks for the info, user. Much appreciated

Kek

What if I can't stand living with roommates, am I fucked?

>every other cuck on this site and reddit is a CODER XD
when your subucultrally-induced idendity, copy-pasted from a vietnamiese sweatshop suggenstion box discussion forum, interferes with you being able to accept the techno-future and going with the natural flow of human, civilatory progress

lol... the nu-males are just the vocal ones. the ones who can code a few lines of python and think they're like the big boys now goin on twitter and cuckbook to shit up the place with their CODER MEMES LEL.
because of walking, talking normie-stereotypes like this most of us just don't talk about it and let people who still didn't get over the
>MUH NERDS MUH GEEKS ME ALPHA
meme be left in the dust just like the beta males that claim to be alpha just by going for pseudo-conservative values that just happen to make you the perfect slave-worker for (((them))), just like chad, the archetype you're supposed to reach for to win (((their))) game...

didn't proof read. i hope you get the message.

No because its nothing but logic, basic level algebra is all thats needed for coding, doesn't change the fact that its dull and repetitive.

I code in python for 3d software, I'd hate to do it full time and would rather be CREATIVE and would prefer to outsource to a pajeet if I could but they'd fuck it up

You're a fag for spending the time to write that.

>I code in python for 3d software

Jesus christ, no wonder you're bitter

>i wrote some shitty boilerplate python therefore I know that all CS is uncreative work
just kys retard, you're too stupid and unaware of the limits of your own knowledge for a """discussion""" with you to be worthwhile

You could probably get a studio for like $2.5k. Probably cheaper if you live in a meh location. Even in SF there are some pretty cheap places, it's just seedier or far away from downtown.

You could always live outside of SF too and commute in.

What kind of os-level development needs higher level math? You're fucking retarded.

Or just don't be shit at your job and work at firms that actually matter. .NET is great, and you're retarded if you let some street shitters change that for you.

Should've used 'or' there but whatever. To answer your question, a future OS for Quantum Computing , you nigger.