This is possibly the absolute last place I should be asking this (actually that may be Stormfront...), but this is the least troll-y board so I'm going to float it out here anyway: how should a black man go about delving into the Western canon in order to receive the social and intellectual benefits of studying great works of English literature, without damaging his identity and sense of self-worth? Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work. A few years ago, this wouldn't have been a problem, but unfortunately the Pandora's box of my awareness of racial dynamics has been opened, and I can't really ignore it. There's got to be a way of approaching study at an angle and remove that allows literature to transform oneself positively while eschewing what might leave one feeling less than.
This is possibly the absolute last place I should be asking this (actually that may be Stormfront...)...
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Don't judge the actions thoughts of people of the past in accordance with present morals. That's it. I can understand that you might be reading a book that you really love, and come upon a throwaway line about ugly, savage negroes or something, and it might get you down. Just understand, as I'm sure you do, that that's just the way things were back then, and there was (probably) no intent to hurt black people. Someone writing such things today would certainly mean to throw fire to the flame and would be actively trying to be an asshole.
Much like how today one can make fun of religion or religious figures without causing commotion. Mostly everyone, whether believer or not, will just laugh along. That wasn't the case 500 years ago, when any derogatory comment about not only God but the clergy would get you thrown in a dungeon or executed. To say that bullshit in that time period you would really have to want to offend someone, but not today.
Well, anti-black racism as we know it only came into existence about 400 years ago when slave economies had to justify why they we're treating other human beings like shit. Ergo, the scientific justifications and that "curse of Ham" nonsense.
Before that you should be gold. keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority. Greeks had several racial theories about why everywhere else was full of plebs, Rome had their barbarian "racism", the Ottomans thought that their shade of brown was superior to black and white skin, and so on.
Don't let this diminish your self worth but realize that you can read their works from a unique position which helps you understand how even the greatest thinkers in history could be the most ignorant. Pol/ has no such advantage because any mention of whites not being the greatest thing since sliced bread results in the spamming of autistic memes "HAHAHAHA WHAT W-W-W-WWE WAZ KANGS I BET". Exercise a healthy interest in history and sociology, and away you go.
Start with the Greeks.
LOL when the Romans were the greatest bookworms of all times my ancestors were still living in the mud, inventing cheese and throwing rocks at each other. Like Philipp Melanchthon gave a fuck about that later and blogposting to Luther about his inferiority? kek nope, you twat.
That's like asking how should a white man go about delving into black lit without having to stumble on rants and bouts of retarded racial rhetorics every so often. And how would anyone possibly appreciate the qualities of the most ancient western lit from religious times nowadays? How comes they're still so highly-regarded?
If you can't take derogatory content that would, fired blindly, apply to you (yes directly to you, not even considering the gap in centuries) then forget literature and stick to trigger-free, content-free YA.
what the fuck are you even asking? you fucking racist nigger. your fucking "identity" and "self-worth", are you fucking kidding me? Where do you live?
>non-white inferiority
there is. You literally rape and murder 10x more than whites.
>my identity and self-worth
the main reason why you should read is so you can change your stupid preconceived notions, nog.
Lol, see black user, you wont end up like this retard if you actually read you the Western canon
Stop being black.
The idea that the canon is exceptionally racist / xenophobic / nationalistic is bullshit. Nationalism is noticeable only in Slavic literature, real xenophobia against other nations nowhere (as far as I know), and racism against blacks only in anglo saxon literature (and very rarely - Melville attacks racism, for example).
Read the books already. And use your brain while doing that.
this nigger believes there's racism in the west, because of this stupid preconceived notion, there is. He literally creates racism when he shits out this idiotic non-sense
>this nigger
>racism is non-exist
I'm not trying to be a cunt but without thinking less of your individual self it would probably be better if you accept that black people as a rule are actually inferior.
It's pretty much a fact. Which you shouldn't consider a bad thing since you seem like a smart lad and being both smart and black makes the world your oyster.
>works all day in labor-intense job, gets beat all day, no comforts to speak of, sleeps in dirt
>has l'oreal ad skin
LMAO
disregard western cannon, acquire currency, use it to buy the 40 acres you never got
it is officially time for this post to be called underrated
Just read 'Pimp' by Iceberg Slim afterwards you'll feel cool as shit.
>how should a black man go about delving into the Western canon in order to receive the social and intellectual benefits of studying great works of English literature, without damaging his identity and sense of self-worth?
what
#victimstatus
>niggers self-identify themselves as niggers
>niggers call other niggers niggers
>arabs call niggers niggers
>slant-eyed mother fuckers call niggers niggers
>latinos call niggers niggers
>white cant call niggers niggers
why is this?
By dissociating from other blacks and being a Stirnerist individual.
And this is why people should read.
Also
>latinos call niggers niggers
Ive never seen someone so butthurt over a word.
because we're the only race cucked enough to think we need permission
>preconceived notion
the word you're looking for is "paradigm"
lol
>400 years ago when slave economies
>he thinks that African slavery en masse began only 400 years ago
>he thinks that slave economies didn't exist before that
Let me put this to you in terms you can understand:
ooga booga noonga wonga bix nood muhfugga
>didn't read the post
>"anti-black racism as we know it only came into existence about 400 years ago"
Not slave economies you retard but anti-black racism in Western culture
>keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority
OP one suggestion, most of the time authors of the past associated blackness with barbarianism. The easiest way around this is just whenever you read negro etc. read barbarian. The vast majority of authors would never have dreamt of saying that if born in the modern time. The same could be said about sexism in the past too.
>>keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority
[citation needed]
I don't think a guy coming here to ask about reading as much of the western canon as possible is doing it to relax between rapes and murders, you bitter cunt.
I want /pol/ to stay on their fucking containment board.
Balance your lit by reading tons of world history.
Only if you basement-dwelling manbabies go back to /a/.
>Well, anti-black racism as we know it only came into existence about 400 years ago when slave economies had to justify why they we're treating other human beings like shit.
>Before that you should be gold. keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority. Greeks had several racial theories about why everywhere else was full of plebs, Rome had their barbarian "racism", the Ottomans thought that their shade of brown was superior to black and white skin, and so on.
Well which one is it? Nothing until 400 years ago, or always existing across all civilizations? And why is it that the continent of Africa remains the nexus of slavery even today?
I don't watch anime
That was just the most appropriate reaction image I had to your pointless tantrum
Again, actually read the post. Most societies have engaged in some sort of biological essentialism to justify their own superiority, but the particular notion that whites are superior to blacks (and indeed, that there's any sort of unified "white" race as opposed to a bunch of different sorts of Europeans) arose around 400 years ago with the selling of African slaves to Europeans.
I think the distinction was why it appears in the western canon and then the lack vicissitude in the historical mindset set of "racial nationalism." They are distinct points and the specific anti-black racism that we see primarily in the western canon (90% composed in the last 400 years) is from that economic justification mindset.
hey fellow user, lets suck eachothers' diiiiks
blacks will never contribute anything worthwhile to western civilisation and aren't a part of it, stop trying
I love how the Jews have convinced whites that being pro-white is always being anti-something. Anti-black, anti-semitic, anti-women, whatever the fuck.
But Chinese being pro-Chinese... that's just how they are, those silly wacky yellow people aren't they cute.
>sense of identity...
Spooked. Anyways, I recommend discarding racialization, for it is precisely those Europeans/White Americans who drew the arbitrary line of black around you. I'm half native (not Elizabeth Warren the blue eyes white Cherokee either) and it's through philosophy that I came to discard the framework of race which was fundamentally undermining every intellectual and social endeavor I had made in my life prior to that point. It had in the past influenced so many of my decisions, from my dating habits to my choice of school and almost universally negatively.
Most of the good writers of America were anti-racist and anti-colonialist anyways. I kind of understand where you're coming from but it really is a stupid thing to worry about.
Medieval Arab literature often talks about black people as though they are part of the fauna of Africa.
Hi OP, showing my support with a friendly reminder to ignore the buttmad racist wagecucks.
They're literally cardboard. Like, I can't take anything they say seriously, unless they have something cogent to actually say.
>Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work
What the hell are you talking about? How exactly do you even want to know wether or not something "racially loaded" is in the works without reading them?
Either you listen too much to progressive lefts (idiots) or you want to bait us.
Didn't you read his post ?
But there wasn't much of a unified white race at that time; it would still be centuries until people like the Irish and Italians were considered white.
Just read man. Grasp the nettle. It isn't as bad as you might think in general and where it is it gives you perspective from the comfort of a book.
When you say "awareness of racial dynamics" you mean you have been made to be afraid of something important because you have a particular colour of skin. You've been double bluffed by racist "antiracists"
Just realize you're an inferior nigger and come at it from that perspective?
The Arabs had slaves way before 400 years ago and they were racist as fuck.
>how should a black man go about delving into ...
The same like any white man.
As an american who happens to be black, stop identifying with externals and stop being a little bitch. This question is bitchmade you dumb nigger.
>Everything you siad
If you're a lurking user: Op, you don't have to recycle this trash
If you really are an "american who happens to be black": Dude, you have been on Veeky Forums way to long. Seriously, take a step back and reevaluate yourself.
>almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority
>almost every culture
>[citation needed]
He did say "almost" every culture
Maybe he should've used "some" instead
I am and no I haven't. Black people by-and-large suck. I mean white people suck too. Most every sucks but me and people like me.
>Most every sucks
Truth.
>how should a black man go about delving into the Western canon in order to receive the social and intellectual benefits of studying great works of English literature, without damaging his identity and sense of self-worth?
Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work. A few years ago, this wouldn't have been a problem, but unfortunately the Pandora's box of my awareness of racial dynamics has been opened, and I can't really ignore it. There's got to be a way of approaching study at an angle and remove that allows literature to transform oneself positively while eschewing what might leave one feeling less than.
Why would your self-worth be damaged? Everyone in the past hated everyone else, don't feel special. 90% of the time black people aren't even going to come up, and if they do it'll just be in passing. Women have absolutely no problem with this and they have to deal with authors shitting all over them in practically every book. My lecturer in early Irish literature was a woman, she was a scholar of Táin Bó Cuailnge, where one of the central morals of the story is "Free women are dirty incompetent whores and can't be trusted with anything". I'm an atheist and I've read authors who think atheists are animals with no soul, I'm an Irishman and I've read authors who thought that the Irish were barbarian savages only good for murder and drinking. It didn't phase me one bit. You honestly sound like you've drank the Social Justice kool-aid, and that's coming from a staunch leftist. If you love literature and the English language, then read for that sake. You're (I assume) a westerner. Your identity should be strengthened by the western canon, not damaged.
I'll post a quote from Seamus Heaney, where he talks about accepting his English language heritage as well as his Irish language. It's mostly relevant to Ireland but you should try to take something from it.
>I tended to conceive of English and Irish as adversarial tongues, as either/or conditions rather than both/ands, and this was an attitude which for a long time hampered the development of a more confident and creative way of dealing with the whole vexed question-the question, that is, of the relationship between nationality, language, history, and literary tradition in Ireland.
>Luckily, I glimpsed the possibility of release from this kind of cultural determinism early on, in my first arts year at Queen's University, Belfast, when we were lectured on the history of the English language by Professor John Braidwood. Braidwood could not help informing us, for example, that the word "whiskey" is the same word as the Irish and Scots Gaelic word uisce, meaning water, and that the River Usk in Britain is there fore to some extent the River Uisce (or Whiskey)
>>>cont.
>and so in my mind the stream was suddenly turned into a kind of linguistic river of rivers issuing from a pristine Celto-British Land of Cockaigne, a riverrun of Finnegans Wakespeak pouring out of the cleft rock of some pre-political, prelapsarian, ur-philological Big Rock Candy Mountain—and all of this had a wonderfully sweetening effect upon me. The Irish /English duality, the Celtic/Saxon antithesis were momentarily collapsed, and in the resulting etymological eddy a gleam of recognition flashed through the synapses and I glimpsed an elsewhere of potential which seemed at the same time to be a somewhere being remembered. The place on the language map where the Usk and the uisce and the whiskey coincided was definitely a place where the spirit might find a loophole, an escape route from what John Montague has called "the partitioned intellect," away into some unpartitioned linguistic country, a region where one's language would not be a simple badge of ethnicity or a matter of cultural preference or official imposition, but an entry into further Ianguage. And I eventually came upon one of these loopholes in Beowulf itself.
Stop thinking in terms of either black or western, rather both black and western. Reforge your partitioned intellect. Reclaim your birthright.
>Everything you siad 2.0
user, for some, years of Veeky Forums veiwing is to long. But apparently for you months or days is to much. I have yet to hear "an american who happens to be white" talk about how white people are bitchmade [insert racial slur here].
I don't know the satistics but from my own lurking it would seem that most racism is aimed towards blacks (after that would be jews mabye). It honestly looks like you have experienced Veeky Forums so much that you have started to believe the things that makes Veeky Forums notorious horrible.
I know you still don't agree but a person being racist to another of the same color is one of the most meta-ironic yet pitiful things i can think of
western civilization sucks, so probably not
>I have yet to hear "an american who happens to be white" talk about how white people are bitchmade [insert racial slur here].
Is this your attempt at "inb4 calling me a bitch"?
You're a fucking bitch m8. Plus that guy wasn't calling black people in general "bitchmade" it was aimed specifically at OP and his attitude.
But hey lucky that dumb-not-a-nigger-because-only-words-are-racist-and-not-attitudes has you here to police how he, a black person, talks to other black people.
>Women have absolutely no problem with this
Are you having a laugh, mate?
Your logic is literally that of a /pol/tard calling someone a cuck. No one should be forced to like their own race, personally I don't give a shit about racial issues but your implication that it's "sad" for someone to dislike their own race is manipulative and disingenuous.
Is two out of all of Europe, based on sentiments localized to the USA, really the best you could come up with?
>Are you having a laugh, mate?
Different cultures m8.
The unified white people meme is literally invented by niggers and Americans who are unable to distinguish different peoples and don't have a racial and cultural identity of their own
> racism against Irish people was a US thing
Would honestly knock your block off for that stupid piece of bullshit.
Italians themselves are a special case since Sicilians weren't considered particularly Italian for a long time. City state culture lasted a very very long time. If you bring up North and South Italy you'll get some choice language going on now even.
>Irish discrimination
>localized to the USA
Which is why I mentioned the Ottomans
Name one imperialist civilisation that wasn't racist
This is why pol/ needs to read a fucking book
Lets step into the Twilight Zone for a second
>Twilight Zone Themesong.mp3
>Be yourself
>(wait, this is a twilight zone)
>be whatever you want to be
>imagine if, you are willing...
>a world
>the only people who say nigger are blacks, but only to other blacks
>hispanics say beaner-wetbacks but only to other hispanics
>White people say redneck-cumstain but only to other white people
>asians say chink but only to other asians
>what a wonderful world it would be.mp3
>we wouldn't hate everyone else,
>but rather, we would hate ourselves
>Veeky Forums racism would amount to white people calling other white people cumstained-birdshit
>Jails would be filled with civil wars of blacks and the word nigger being thrown around likeaa womans mood during pms
>hood gangs, hispanic gangs, and biker gangs gangs be more diverse than ever because people would want to get away from there color as much as possible
>mabye we should stop hateing every one else
>and start hating ourselves
>ed, edd, and eddy theme song.mp3
If you know any Mongol racism facts I'd be interested to know. They were probably racist about the Chinese or something
lol, the level of critical thinking on display in this thread re: race really sheds a new light on all the shitty, insecure "lit advice" that gets spread on this forum, especially by self-proclaimed "auto didacts" who couldn't make it through college like the rest of their peers, and as a result spending their days masturbating so as to avoid facing their own pathetic personal failures.
Fuck off Veeky Forums
Just read the fucking books
T. Black
blacks can't read
I'm not a newfig.
> I have yet to hear "an american who happens to be white" talk about how white people are bitchmade [insert racial slur here].
That's obvious.
>I don't know the satistics but from my own lurking it would seem that most racism is aimed towards blacks (after that would be jews mabye). It honestly looks like you have experienced Veeky Forums so much that you have started to believe the things that makes Veeky Forums notorious horrible.
Confirmed for knowing very few actual black people. I went to a black high school for 4 years. Black people are animals with some exception. They are the exception that proves the rule. I went to predominately white schools until high school so I know both worlds. I have motion sensing cameras, and motion sensing lights and always have my screen door locked because I live in a black area. When I lived in ohio we could just leave our doors unlocked in the day times because white people don't burgle unless they are trash.
Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. You have this concrete ideas from vague observations. You should listen to me.I know what you don't.
>self-proclaimed "auto didacts"
What did he mean by this?
True, you got me there although the Mongolians seem to be an exception to a lot of historical trends
The Mongols clearly thought of other people as lower than themselves since they slaughtered millions of them like cattle, they thought of civilized people in general as soft and weak (hence why they kept returning people to the steps to prevent them getting soft while ruling civilized folks)
>because white people don't burgle unless they are trash.
> burgle
Time to give up the charade you non burger-leriser
Pretty sure he meant that the only thing he has going for him is that he attends a decent university, so he decided to make everyone aware of how deeply insecure he is in a thread that has nothing to do with him, or with post-secondary education.
>Is this your attempt at "inb4 calling me a bitch"
Lol,wut
>But hey lucky that dumb-not-a-nigger-because-only-words-are-racist-and-not-attitudes
user, i black too. I understand your annoyance with my opinion but in my life expirence calling someone a bitchmade nigger is usually not a good way to get them to make important life decisions" thats all. ( But if that method works for you then by all means, continue)
Op is trying to avoid racism, and here you guys are, throwing it in his face. Am i missing something here?
> they must have had racist thoughts because they were imperialist
Right o
The more I find out about them the more I like them. Women even commanded a lot of power, so contrary to popular portrayals they were quite progressive.
Fingernails are dirty cus I've been gardening. Fingers are fat because of a new medication I'm about to get off of which made me gain 50 lbs in 3 months. Real nigra though.
Although I don't know much about them, I assume at some point they grew a superiority complex despite their tolerance of other groups
That's a male hand.
>le I know black people better than anyone meme
>le only blacks commit crimes
>except le bad white people
What does this sting of unsubstantiated, unproveable nonsense have to so with the OP'S question?
>niggers self identify
I know it's dumb but there is a big diffrence between nigga and nigger. It's stupidly big actually, don't know how it got to be that way
>white can't whites call niggers niggers
No one should be using racial slurs for anyone, it makes you sound stupid no matter the race. Is your vocabulary so small that you would really want to lower yourself like that?
>but in my life expirence calling someone a bitchmade nigger is usually not a good way to get them to make important life decisions
OP seems to be in a malaise and maybe something like that maggoty breast Jung wrote about would help to snap out of it.
I think you're right, my above post is probs misguided tbqh. But I've already put my better worded opinion in further up, of you're thinking "this isn't for me because I happen to have this colour skin" then you've already gone into a racist line of thought.
That's fine, but do they or do they not fit the trend that they look done upon people of other civilizations? I'm genuinely curious because I dont know much about them
post tits
Okay okay, but really is burgle like an Ohio thing or something? I thought all yall said burglarize
I think the person person to ask would be a well read black guy/gal?
I think people are generally right when they say you just have to understand the dynamics of the time, and the it's up to you to decide how you feel about in each instance.
It's hard for me to relate, I think ask a Black person. I don't read anything older than late 1800s anyway.
a/s/l
They were also absolute barbarians who butchered civilians in droves.
>but do they or do they not fit the trend that they look done upon people of other civilizations?
Not sure. I know they had some issues in China but then adopted a lot of the culture (a bit like Rome with Greece (and everywhere really)). But I don't know if there are racial slurs and things with them. It's something to look into and keep an eye out for I guess.
Mongol is an insult tho in an awful lot of places tho.
>It's not my fault I'm dirty and fat
>"I'm a black person"
LMAO
>Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work
Yeah, all those irishniggers never got a break in canon. It's almost as hard as being Egyptian Greek.
>this nigger believes there's racism in the west
so much irony in so few words
That's not what I said and it has nothing to do with OP's question. Keep up. I wasn't replying to OP. I was replying to the guy who replied to me.
>He can't into the evolution of a conversation.
Just shut up if you don't know how to read up on what's being talked about before trying to enter the conversation yourself.
>pic related
24/m/NC
I used to think the same thing.My mom is on meds that make her fat and I used to think "Nah, you're just lazy and eat poorly." But then i went from being able to wear the same pants I had in freshman year of high school to growing out of them and gaining 50 lbs in a 3 month span after being put on an Atarax and Zoloft despite my diet and activity getting much better because at first I though it was just an adult's metabolism kicking in. Now I know that medication weight gain is serious.
Btw it's totally my fault that I'm dirty. I was playing in the dirt on the land I own. That makes a man dirty.
I'm going to thus assume for the most part imperialist nations tend to be racist and/or generally bigoted towards other civilizations. Thus my point still stands that anti-black racism in the west only really ramped up a few hundred years ago, coinciding with the Atlantic Slave Trade. OP still has about 2000 years of Western canon to get through before that point, although he will likely find parallels when confront with Greek or Roman racism.
It must be a hard pill to swallow to accept that your ancestors achieved virtually nothing of cultural significance whilst Westerners built the world as we know it today.
From there you have four options:
1) Accept the inferiority of your race's cultural contributions to the world, and become a good little Uncle Tom.
2) Appropriate the successes of other cultures (WE WUZ KANGZ) and/or focus on meaningless trifles you can claim as your own (e.g. peanut butter)
3) Blame de white man for your race's lack of achievements.
4) Proclaim that all cultures are equal, and that you would be perfectly happy to give up Western luxuries and go back to dancing around skulls with your juju sticks.
>Appropriate the successes of other cultures (WE WUZ KANGZ)
Can somebody explain this meme to me?
A self hating nigger is the worse kind.
Also, too much information dude