Ask the Butcher

If you wanted to age a whole subprimal at home, it would theoretically be possible. I know a lot of people who have tried to do it and have failed miserably. The problem with trying to dry age meat at home is that to do it properly, you need to have constant air flow, a constant humidity, a constant temperature, and as little outside contamination as possible. That means you can't be using the refrigeration unit that you're aging your meat in for anything else. Whenever you open the door, you're allowing outside humidity, outside temperature, and whatever bacteria, spores, etc. that is floating around to layer itself on the meat.

The other problem is that it's often difficult for someone to allow their meat to rest for the full duration of the aging process. Our store allows our meat to rest for *at least* 4 weeks before we prepare the meat for our case. If possible, we allow 5-6 weeks to age our meat. It's not always possible because we sell the meat very quickly once it goes up for sale (even though it ends up being around $30/lb).

If you were going to buy a ribeye to age... I would recommend getting a 2x2 ribeye, lip on w/ chine

The butcher is in. Any questions today Veeky Forums?

Thanks for your answers about dry aging.
Sounds like need a dedicated refrigerator with digital thermostat and humidistat, similar to tools for dry cured sausages.

What's your opinion on European beef vs US beef.
There seems to be a very large difference.

in a cuckolding situation, do you think you'd be the cuck or the bull?

Aging meats and charcuterie meats are pretty specialized stuff. The process of aging causes net losses to overall weight, and gives less product a fuller flavor; but it comes at a cost. That's why steakhouses charge ridiculous prices for a steak. I doubt they're usually running 5 weeks (or more) of aging time unless it specifically says so on the menu, but aging in general is a very controlled process that with the right equipment is safe, easy, and very profitable.

Unfortunately, I have never had European beef. I have had Australian lamb and New Zealand lamb- they are definitely a little different from USDA grade meats.

My main experience that I can tell you about is US beef vs. Canadian beef. Canadians hold their beef to higher standards than the US does, and their AAA grade meats can often end up being prime without being certified Canadian Prime. I'll attach a picture to show some of the differences in grading.

I had a better chart for a long time, but for some reason I can't find it.

Overall, the taste of the Canadian beef (often corn fed, grass fed, or given other quality feed) is richer and the meat is often more tender than similarly graded US meats.

Perhaps it's only the farms that I've had my meats from- but I would believe that most of Canada treats their animals with a very similar set of raising and feeding standards/techniques.

I have, however, had friends who have visited Europe return to tell me that the meat in Europe is better than what we serve in the US. The reasons are simple- they (many places, that is) raise their stock with quality product and good living conditions; more than can be said for many US producers of beef... Our products aren't shit, and we do have some great producers in the US too, but Europe and Canada have better overall systems for rearing their cattle.

Last year when I butchered my own deer, after I took out the 2 backstraps and back loin, I just cutoff large chunks for "roasts" and then stripped the bones for stew/sausage meat. Are there easily identifiable lines to know where to cut the primary roasts from?

Thanks Butcher.
It seems Europe might be similar to Canada in the way they raise their cattle.
It's fairly hard to compare since I've never tried US fresh cuts.

plz2answer

very important question here ===> mr butcher. please answer.

Unless you're familiar with the seams of an animal, it won't always be apparent when one subprimal has ended and the next has begun. There is, however, often a seam that can be peeled/pulled away between the muscles when you're at the next section or piece (rib cap pulls off of rib steaks, tenderloin will peel away from the bone, sirloin cap will separate from sirloin, etc.).

Most people who butcher their own deer do exactly what you have done- take the important meat/steaks out of it, and leave the rest for roasts, stewing, sausage, and jerky.

I'll attach a chart of some of the deer cuts so you can get a general idea of where they're located.

If you have more questions about processing, or you want some more ideas for how to section out the animal, let me know. I'll try to help as much as I can with the matter.

Thanks. I quartered it out fine, then looked at the 2 dimensional charts for beef and couldn't relate it to my 3 dimensional leg quarters. I'm probably just really poor at spatial relations.

The 2d charts are often confusing when you're looking at them- especially when bone, other obstructions, and separations are associated with them.

I always say "as long as it tasted good, you did it right". Hopefully you've enjoyed all of that meat by now; after that 1 year mark you really start to lose the characteristic and the quality of the meat.

wtf butcher OP? you're deliberately not answering the most important, hard-hitting questions ITT. are you embarrassed of your answers but don't want to lie or somethung like that?

It doesn't last too long around my house. It's pretty much the only meat we eat until it's gone! Archery season starting 10/1, so (fingers crossed) we might be stocked up before long.

fine, fuck you then you double nigger

I want to buy chicken oysters by the pound
why cant i find them in stores
why

The average person doesn't even know what a chicken oyster is. There's no demand, thus nobody is going to bother to stock it.

What has mentioned is very accurate. Most people don't have any idea what a chicken oyster is. Chefs know what it is, and so do foodies. The other problem with chicken oysters is that they're so small it would take a massive amount of them to be good for cooking for company. A massive amount of those oysters would take a half as massive size of chickens...

Another problem is that most of the machines that cut chickens today do not favor any particular morsels of the bird. They merely hack and slash the birds apart. This leaves the oyster either on the leg, on the breast, or cut between the two (if not destroyed in the process).

If you want chicken oysters, you'd have to get them from somewhere that has actual cutters on staff so that they'd be able to collect them as they're parting out birds. It would be very cost prohibitive though.

I'm a meat cutter and I work in a traditional grocery store, so I get the riff-raff that is slightly better than walmart. There are always overwhelmingly stupid questions, and my favorite is this right now;

>I live in VA, not too hick-ish
>sometimes they come in, though
>Lady asks for pork shoulder or 'something similar'
>"Sorry ma'am, we don't have any shoulders in, but the closest we have is Pork Butt, which isn't really much differ-"
>"I don't want to eat the ass!"
>Elderly couple behind her stare in horror at the combination of ignorance and vulgarity
>I desperately try to explain to her that's just the name of it
>Has nothing to do with digestive tract, or fecal matter
>Elderly couple now try to reason with her
>She still won't buy it, just because it's called a Butt

Fucking hate grocery stores.

Got any good recipes for a brisket OP?

Is it frowned upon for me to come in and ask for cuts that aren't already available?

I have had a lot of similar issues with customers.

"Do you have any tri-tip roasts?"
"I'm afraid we do not carry tri-tip roasts as a regular item, but we do have---"
"No, it's not worth my time. It can't be better than a tri-tip roast. You never have any quality products here at all."

-Didn't even listen to hear that we'd either order in a case special for her to get her roast from or offer her sirloin cap steak for the same price or less.

*Also doesn't stop to consider that our shop offers only choice and higher products, many of which are choice+ or prime for the same money as the choice meats that come in. If we don't order it in as prime, the customer never pays prime price for prime meats that come out of the choice or higher cases; thus we offer exceptional value. We also offer to special order any cut should we not have what the customer needs in stock at the present time. --> Therefore, we have terrible products and customer service (according to ladies like the one above).

Depends on how you're hoping to cook that brisket up user.

Absolutely not (at my store, at least).

It often depends on three things to determine if they're able to get what you need though: 1) what store you're at, 2) where you're located geographically, and 3) what you're hoping to get. Uncommon cuts are often difficult to find. Some steaks/roasts (tri-tip for example) are often harder to find on the East Coast of the US than it is on the West Coast of the US. It's just a matter of where it is typically popular. It is also hard to find cultural/national cuts from other regions/countries (Argentinian, Mexican, Italian, other European nations, etc.) because most meat cutters in the US are unfamiliar with the other cutting styles that are needed to create these pieces. Additionally, we do not prepare our cattle the same way in the US as they do in other parts of the world- so it may actually be highly unlikely to find the group of muscles together in one piece that it would take to make certain cuts...

What kind of cut were you hoping to find?

I've never cooked a brisket before, and I'm not really familiar with that cut of meat, so I'm wondering what would be the best way to cook it. Also, I'd rather it not taste like a generic "roast"

>Not eating ass

Best way of course is to smoke it Texas style. If you only have the flat though you could always do a corned beef, and if you want smoke that to get pastrami.

Of course you could smoke just the flat to but won't be as good as a whole brisket that has the point also with all that delicious fat.

What options for cooking do you have available to you?

Most of the people I know that love brisket are smoking them. Though braised briskets are good too. Some people do still cook them like a roast though; which is something you said you're hoping to avoid.

Were you hoping to smoke or grill this bad boy? Or did you have different plans for its cooking style?

If I had to take my pick for cooking a brisket, I know I would be smoking it. Smoking a brisket is cash (as has mentioned). I know that not everyone has the ability to smoke their brisket though, so there are other options if you'd like to try those.

i know...
Theres a bar in San Diego that offers Fried Chicken Oysters. its the fucking best. Fuck KFC or Chickfila, i want a 20 piece order of those

Any good stories? Customer stupidity, accidents, interesting occurrances, interns screwing things up, anything?

If I rember right, butchers and meat cutters used to have a strong national union. Do they still? Do you think it detracts or helps ensure quality?

Around Naples Italy, brisket is often stewed/braised (not sure what the English language word is for the technique) in tomato sauce then pulled into shreds.
Thereafter, we stuff small breads with the stuff as well as some cheese or we use it as a filling for our regional variant of lasagne.
In the winter, we make a stock from beef knes aand simmer brisket in it a good, long while. Some spoon-sized pastais cooked in salted water, drained, bowled and topped with the stock. Two schools of though on how to eat the meat here: if no veg were used in making the soup, we pull the brisket into shreds and eat it along with the stock and pasta, but if we cooked veg (like carrots, celery etc), we serve the pasta and soup by themselves then the brisket and veg together as second course.

Those are nice preparations, I think. Try those?

Answer this one:

That's some lucky stuff man. I hope you're utilizing that opportunity to the fullest.

If I'm ever out that way I'll have to look for that bar.

I've got plenty of stories. Let me know if there's any situation you're looking for in particular. If not, I'll post a story or two later from my "favorite customer list".

I've actually never been part of any meat cutter or butcher's union. I know that they certainly used to have them, and a major one was dissolved in 1979 (AMC, I think). I am not sure if there is presently an official meat cutter/butcher union in the US... I'd have to look into that. As far as quality is concerned, the clientele typically seem to manipulate the quality expected from the meat cutters and butchers (from my experience, at least).

That sounds like excellent cooking advice. As l pay respects to trips, I will oblige your request to answer the other question in my next post.

You got a higher res version of that pic?
Maybe for pork as well?

Would be easier to go to my local Metzger and point on a pic instead of trying to translate something like "boneless chuck eye".

what cuts are best for slow cooking?

To be clear, if you cooked veg with your soup and eat it as second course with the brisket, the brisket is carved at the table and slices are eaten with the vegetables with knife and fork.

Thanks for saying so. I'm the overseas Italian bitching and moaning last thread about having difficulty finding anyone who sells Italian cuts or is willing to make them for me unless I buy a quarter of beef. I'd do it, too, but I've not enough space for all that beef.
Thanks for the advice back then.

I have a lot of charts. I'll put up a higher resolution example for both beef and pork (beef in this post, pork picture for my next one).

The best cuts I can think of for slow cooking are as follows: chuck roast, bottom round/rump roast, short ribs, neck meat, oxtail, and shin meat.

Oxtail soup is delicious too. Unfortunately, the tail has been getting more expensive lately (as has the neck)...

Glad I could offer help. I hope it's proven useful. If there's anything else I can do for you, please feel free to ask.

By request:
A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. But if a woodchuck could chuck woodchucks chucking wood, then a woodchuck could chuck wood-chucking woodchucks...

To make it meat related, a woodchuck weighs approximately 13 pounds- of that, approximately 25% would be considered to be chuck meat. Therefore a woodchuck chucking wood-chucking woodchucks would be throwing approximately 3.25 pounds of chuck.

Well I'm in the UK and I was just curious as to the willingness of butchers to go out of their comfort zone. I have asked for jacobs ladder before which I know youcant get in the US since you quarter your cattle but I've had trouble getting it here.

Things that are hard to get in a supermarket tend to be equally hard to get in butchers though. Good luck trying to find a pork belly that isn't pre-sliced in a supermarket but I seem to have similar troubles in butchers.

Also here a lot of the things in butchers are basically pre-formed burgers and chicken legs with 'chinese' spice or 'bbq spice seem to be popular, is that true in the US?

Derp- forgot the chart.

Any under appreciated cuts that hipsters havent ruined yet?

>pre-formed burgers and chicken legs with 'chinese' spice or 'bbq spice seem to be popular, is that true in the US?

I'm not OP, but as a US customer I'll throw in my two cents here.

I see a lot of that kind of thing at supermarkets--pre-seasoned chicken wings, legs, etc. Premade burger patties of varying quality. Pre-seasoned steaks or pork chops, fajita meat, and so on. But I've never seen those things at an actual "butcher".

What does "USDA inspected" mean? Not every beef carcass is actually inspected is it? Is it just some guy with a stamp on an assembly line? How would they spot something sinister just by looking at a carcass?

Hanger is the most underrated steak, confirm or deny?

Yeah that's usually what they have on display here. Pretty annoying when you try and browse and they offer you cut price chicken in a shite dry rub

Well, how much chuck would Chuck Wood chuck if Chuck Wood would chuck chuck?

I've seen it at one butcher only, a Jamaican shop. He sells goat chunks and cut-up chicken already dusted in curry spices or jerk spices. They open a bit later in the day, 10am, and they occasionally run late but still open the doors on time in case customers just need a case of eggs or bottle of milk or something (small fridge near the front of the shop). On days they're running late, you can see the guys cutting up the meat and/or putting them in huge vats with the spices and shaking it up. The only issue I have with the place is that they don't seem (though I could be just unobservant) to have separate spice vats, one for chicken and the other fot goat.

Pre-formed burgers is definitely the norm in the US. We often are too lazy to do it ourselves, so pre-formed is the way to do it. In a traditional shop and some grocery stores, the preformed patties are actually patties that are made on site by one of the workers. In many stores, however, they're preformed elsewhere and merely sold in the store.

Many grocery stores also offer "spiced" or "seasoned" chicken legs because it offers a variety to the consumer. BBQ is huge across the pond here in the states, so saving the customer a step or two often helps bring a higher rate of sales. I agree with that MOST butchers don't bother to preseason anything, as the reason to go to them in the US is to assure fresh and honest products.

I can't really weigh in on that, unfortunately. Most of the cuts in the animal are really well known in my area- I'm not sure what it's like elsewhere in the states...

Of the cuts in my area, however, I would say that sirloin cap is the least appreciated cut. Flat iron steaks, flank steaks, neck meat, oxtails, heart, liver, kidneys, all of these things are getting rather popular lately- though it's not all about one group of people. The cheap cuts are getting more expensive because they're still the "cheapest cut" and the stores know people will still pay for them.

It would take a long time to type it all out, but this website gives a good idea about the process: clovermeadowsbeef.com/meat-inspection/.

I will deny this claim. In my local area, the hangar steak is well known and people pay top dollar for it. It's actually overrated here if anything. I know this is different depending on what area of the world you're from though. It's definitely a good piece of meat though!

Yet again I dropped the ball. Here's your pork chart.

Here's another beef chart.

where do silverside, sirloin and chuck get their names from?

and spare rib, ribeye

how can any ribs be spare?

Not him but here's one of mine

>VERY FIRST day of my first internship at a butcher shop
>Goes pretty good for pretty much the entire day
>After the butcher finished breaking down some beef the block has a little pile of trim
>Tells me to clean the block and trim while he goes to the freezer
>scrape up bone dust/other mess
>up until this point in the day he hadn't kept any trimmings so I wad them up and dump them in the trash just as he comes back with a tub
>he wanted me to get the trim together so he could chill them for sausage
>He wasn't mad just disappointed
>I wanted to slit my wrists with the bandsaw
>Didn't get to make sausage that week

I actually haven't ever heard where the term chuck or sirloin came from. Silverside comes from the thick layer of membrane that appears as a white or silver color on the side of the whole piece. Sometimes it's called "silverwall" instead.

Sorry I do not know more about these names.

I was told spare ribs are called "spare ribs" because it came from the old term "spear-ribs" meaning that they were cooked over a fire traditionally with a spear.

Ribeye makes sense. It's a steak from the rib section of the animal and the swirl of fat that passes through a well-marbled steak gives the appearance of an eye in the center.

I'm afraid I cannot answer the riddle of the woodchucks any further than I already have. Sorry user.

Sad times my friend. The first day in the shop is always an interesting one... except for mine. Pretty simple and bland stuff for my first day. I'll share a story or two of mine later.

The Butcher is headed out for a bit, but I will return later. In the meantime, feel free to leave me a pile of questions- I will answer them all when I get back.

if you wanted to do some butching, what are the minimum tools you need?

is a lamb, or a half lamb a good thing to try first?

Many thanks.

Have you worked with whole rabbit before or have any material that could help in butchering one?

Not OP but small game needs no explanation. Gut, skin, quarter, and cook all 5 pieces.

Have you worked with whole rabbit before or have any material that could help in butchering one?

what are you doing?

What are the translations of steak between places ? Example, britian we call it a sirloin, americans call it a strip. Feather steak and flat irom are the same too.

Would you be the mad butcher?

Why is hangar steak so hard to find? I go to actual butcher shops and they never have. My restaurant buys it in 5lb bag so it's definitely out there

Nice quads user.

If you're interested in butchering, you should start with the less expensive cuts of meat. Lamb and veal are usually the last two things you will learn to cut due to their cost, small size (need more knife mastery), and their delicate nature.

I would recommend starting with chickens, varieties of small game, or pork (if you're looking for something a little larger, that is).

Something else to consider would be learning about general meat cutting (like what is done at a mid-level or upper-level grocery store) first. That way you get some knife skills, get used to boning, get used to honing your knives and sharpening them, and you get a good basis of what cuts are called as well as what the general anatomy of the animal is and how the subprimals fit together.

That being said, you should have a variety of knives... but if money is an issue, you can shorten that list of knives to two: 1) a 5 or 6 inch boning knife (probably semi-stiff) and 2) a 10 or 12 inch cimeter. It depends on what you're doing for each knife, so make sure that you're being wise in your selection if you're going to get knives. If you're working somewhere, they might buy you knives. You can also hone your knife on the clock and probably sharpen your knives on the stones before or after you clock out for the night if need be.

For this reason, you shouldn't need any honing steels or sharpening stones at home for personal use. If you're not getting a job at a store with this knowledge, you would be wise to invest in a multi-faced (or multiple individual) sharping stone(s) and a fine steel (if you have enough money, a coarse and medium steel would also be worthwhile; as would a polishing steel- but they are the least useful in comparison to the others...).

If you're really interested in learning about this kind of thing, I can go into more detail in another post for you user. Just let me know.

You've got it. Glad I could be of assistance.

I've definitely seen my share of small game while cutting meat. Typically when you start learning, it's with chicken and small game- as it's inexpensive if there are errors, and it helps you to get used to working around various bones, techniques associated with skinning, and parting out a carcass.

That being said, rabbits are extremely simple. Typically, you do what has suggested. Gut the rabbit, skin it, break it apart into quarters, and then cook everything. Some people gut it, skin it, and roast the whole rabbit.

I actually might have a book upstairs that deals with butchering of rabbits- but I haven't needed it for quite some time, so I'd have to dig it out. If you are in great need of the material, let me know. If I find it I could email you some pictures from the book.

The switches between steaks are really weird- especially between the UK and the US. Just like the UK's "joints of pork"- we just call them roasts here in the US. You also have some pretty spectacular cuts in the UK that you won't find the US- such as "a roast of spare rib". Shit is amazing, but you'll be darned to find them being sold like that in the US. We might have a different name for such a cut, but I cannot think of it at the present.

I actually don't have a book of the changes, nor any charts for that matter- but if it's important to you I'll try to map something out for you.

Looks like a portly gentleman without much facial hair or hair on his head- he's got the portly part right to be me, but I've got more hair on my face and my head than that. That's a pretty traditional picture too- striped apron, an old school hat... looks like the real deal to me.

I've actually never seen that company name before though- thanks for giving me something to look into. Cheers!

Hanger steak... a rare beast indeed. There's a hanger steak/hanging tenderloin shortage almost everywhere that people want them. The problem is this- when you get in a half beef, often times the hanger is already missing. The guys on the production lines often take them off of the animal for themselves while they're working. I have a friend that worked a boning line for 20 years. He hates hanger steaks because he ate at least one a day for all of those years. He said it was common place to take anything you wanted from the animal while it was going down the line. You see a tenderloin that has incredible marbling? Screw the customer- you could take that bitch right off the beef and pay wholesale costs to take that baby home to your wife and kids (or your girlfriend/escort/friends [or your waifu and your battle station]- whatever floats your boat).

Hangers were always targeted though. Mostly because of the prestige of having hanger steak. If the hanging tender made it the whole way off the line, it's luck of the draw for whether or not the butcher shop will get the right part of the beef that would give them the hanger steak.

If you've got a shop with meat cutters (get all of their meat in boxed rather than getting sides of beef), it's VERY RARE for them to even consider ordering in hangers due to their cost, how quickly they turn, and everything else associated with a hanger steak.

It's definitely possible to get them by ordering them in, but for the average user, it's a rather serious scarcity to find them...

thanks

I watched a few hunting videos where they field stripped deer, then saw a couple on how to butcher a pig and a cow. looked pretty interesting. I don't think it's something I want to do for a career, but looks like a useful skill to know in a SHTF scenario, or if I take up hunting. or if they succeed in automating my IT stuff or sending it all to india

chickens, why didn't I think of that?!

are the boning knife and cimeter useful in a kitchen, or should just be used for butching?

It's definitely not everyone's choice for a career- but it's definitely a skill that most people should be familiar with incase of a SHTF or survival situation. Knowing how to process some variety of game and food should be an essential life skill that everyone learns when they're young.

The boning knife can be used for a lot of different things- it's largely used for butchering/processing meats, but I've used my boning knife for chopping onions, for carving melons, and all sorts of other kitchen related items. Then again, most knives can be used for multiple purposes. That being said, the best use for the knives would be for processing meat.

I've never used my cimeter when I wasn't breaking down a large piece of meat at home or cutting meat at work. It's a rather unwieldy blade for general household tasks. It also doesn't have a good rocking function like a chef knife- so it's not nearly as versatile.

You don't need to get anything fancy for those knives- a standard Victorinox-Forschner blade will do its job wonderfully for years to come at a price that's very fair.

why is tritip so hard to find on the east coast?

>at a price that's very fair.
what kind of money are we talking?

How do you cope with how shitty of a job being a butcher is?

Long hours, terrible pay, medium to hard labour all day, the worst customers no matter where you are (given, I've never worked in anything but in a retail butcher.) and you get to work with some of the dumbest and shittiest people you'll ever meet.

My biggest life regret is choosing this garbage career.

About $60-65 for the pair. It depends on where you're getting them though. There's a website online called webstaurant that offers some exceptional deals on many culinary-related items. You don't need to be a restaurant to get some good deals.

They also offer to give you credit toward your next purchase if you take pictures of your item, make a video of your item in use, or write a review for that item. If you do all three, you get $16 in store credit.
Not too bad for a few extra moments of your time...

These knives can last you for years (or decades) if you treat them right- so they're definitely worth their weight.

The tri-tip or triangle steak or bottom sirloin steak as it is also called is a piece that is nestled between the top sirloin and the sirloin tip. When stores order top sirloin or sirloin tip, they're getting marginal portions of tri-tip, but not enough to do anything with (if they're getting any of it at all attached to those pieces). It's not as common on the East Coast because it's a Cali and West Coast cut. It's the same as flat irons and flank steaks were about 10 years ago. They just got popular for (almost) no reason. Celeb chefs wanted to use it, so it got popular. For some reason tri-tip never really caught on for East Coasters.

I guess its general lack of availability on our coast doesn't help any either. Since the demand is present on the West Coast, the processors make sure that the steer being butchered are able to offer up the tri-tip so that they can make the most money possible while parting out their beefs.

I'm going to be out for another hour or two, but I'll get back to you when I get home.

Hey butcher buddy. New Zealand chef reporting.

I was wondering if you could elaborate about the differences between NZ raised lamb and US raised lamb, as well as differences in meat in general, and why you would lump Australian meat in with it.

In terms of what I can say, it is that we tend to have very high animal welfare protection regulation, and the majority, if not all, of our meat is grass reared our its entire life simply due to the economics. Loads of land and loads of rainfall makes grain rearing non-existent and grain finishing uncommon.

My question about Aus. meat is that they lack the rainfall that we get here and their meat, especially if it is at the bottom of the market tends to be very different and not to the same standard as we have here. But of course there are people carefully and lovingly rearing Delicious beasts everywhere.

I have cooked professionally in both countries.

When I was working in Europe, I did find the meat to be delicious, though the retail stuff at the bottom end could be terrible too. I would say the quality was the same as in Canada, though we had a pretty exceptional source of beef in the restaurant I was working in there.

Oh and thanks again. Your threads are a continual must read for me.

t.

Actually, after trying to butcher a deer on my own, my respect for pros increased dramatically.

This individual, who spends his free time trying to help people with questions they have about meat and the processing thereof, has increased my respect for not only this individual, but the profession even more.

It sounds to me like if you paid attention to the way he approaches living, you might like your life better.

what's you opinion of halal and kosher slaughter and butchery, and the fact that non-muslims/non-jews are excluded from working there. also it amounts to a religious tax payed by all customers

You can have knowledge and passion about anything. You can shovel shit, be the best at it, but that doesn't take away that its a shit job.

The only rewarding part of the job is the part hes doing now; talking shop. Helping people cook better. Its nice, but it doesnt really make up for the long days, shitty pay, and shitty people.

I agree with you that the pay could be better for the work that we do. Hell, I know I've put in 14 hour days (or longer) during holiday seasons to make sure everyone else's tables were ready for their family feasts. It's not always glamorous, but it has definitely paid my bills over the years.

The labor can definitely be intensive whether you're at a traditional butcher shop or at a grocery store that still offers real meat cutters and fresh meats (gotta love when people package whole bone-in pork loins 4 to a case, right?). I've definitely also had customers that have almost driven me to the point of insanity! But, at the end of the day, if you're able to see the happiness and enjoyment you bring to the faces of many of your customers throughout the day (even if they might ask simple questions or ask you things that aren't even associated with your line of work), the job pays off pretty well.

I haven't had too much trouble with any of the employees I've been surrounded with aside from some of the wrappers and some of the cleaning staff. I appreciate what they do- especially because it means that I don't have to stick around an extra 5 hours to do it myself... So if I can help guide them a little to make their work easier and the store cleaner, I'm always down to put in a little extra time to help get everything going in the right direction.

Is it a rough job sometimes? Hell yes. Is it a rewarding job? Not always... but to those who appreciate what I do, it makes it all the better. Could we be paid better for what we're doing? Absolutely. In the end, however, I can't say that I'm displeased with my line of work. In fact, I'm happy to work with the people I do and serve the community in order to make a living. I know it's a job that will never disappear too (so that's something at least)!

It's nice to see you post again.

I'd be happy to talk about the lamb as far as I've seen it (and heard about it). If I'm wrong about something, please let me know. You're only as good as your sources and your personal experience in this field...

As I understand it: Australian lamb used to be pretty undesirable. In more recent years, they started mating their lamb with American lamb. This has caused a medium sized lamb in comparison to their older, smaller, variety. Since that time, their lamb has been selling relatively well in the states.

American lamb tastes the least gamey between the three because it is raised with a moderate level of grain in its diet. It is believed that the grass-fed lambs from other countries have more "game" to their flavor.

N.Z. Lamb is supposed to be the smallest, and a while ago it was also the cheapest and least desired in the US as a food source. However, the lamb we've been getting for years for N.Z. has been very well received by our clientele and the price has also been pretty fair.

I've been fortune in my field to not have ever had any lamb that wasn't of high quality (a perk and a curse of the line of work), so I am unable to comment further about the quality of the lower levels of US lamb, AUS lamb, or N.Z. lamb.

As far as beef goes: I know bottom end meats in the US are definitely not good either. Select and Standard are just shit grades. Nothing good about them (canning grade is the worst, I guess)- the meat is devoid of marbling and even external fat is low. The coloration can be light red with soft meat texture and firmness... Absolutely horrible. Canadian meat always has to be a firm firmness and a firm texture as well as be darker red in coloration. Interesting stuff, really. I wish the US would step up their grading system and their livestock requirements...

Thanks for stopping by for another thread.

It's definitely not as easy as many assume. "Drag the knife here, drag the knife there..." is what a customer used to tell me about processing deer. I told them that I feared it was a little more complicated than they gave it credit for!

I appreciate that you're drawing on my positive outlook and my interest in helping people- it's definitely one of the most rewarding parts of the job. As has mentioned, it is a tough (and often thankless) job which many companies often try to pay their workers as little as possible to do. Often stores treat butchers and meat cutters as unintelligent work-mules that know how to create product for a store and lug around heavy stuff for other departments when needed. We've gathered a reputation of often being portly, easy to agitate, and drinkers when we get home for the day. An old man I used to work with once said, "You see Butcher, you either live to bleed yourself dry for your family during the day and fall to a drunken stupor before retiring for the night or you find yourself a way out." Dude didn't talk much, but when he did it was either a) incredibly deep and depressing, b) an extremely valuable life lesson, or c) teaching someone how to do their job better.

I enjoy talking to people and making others happy- so for me, the job (even with its faults) is a pretty good thing. The pay could be better, as we've said earlier- but I'm still afloat, living life and spending time with my friends when I can. Life is good.

I think that the general process of slaughter and butchery is one of quality. The animals are (more or less) humanely killed and processed in a rapid fashion. It's efficient, and the quality of product that comes from each of the animals that is certified Halal or Kosher is typically excellent (though I've seen some pretty small loins from them).

I suppose it's like any other club or private event- they'll allow whoever they want to do the work, and everyone else is denied. I can't say that I think it's fair that they can avoid inclusion everyone outside of their own local sect from working there- especially if someone outside of their beliefs is an amazing worker; but in private business, this is not an uncommon act.

I was unfamiliar with the taxation of other customers for the production of Halal and Kosher meats. I suppose I'll have to take a look into that...

>I can't say that I think it's fair that they can avoid inclusion everyone outside of their own local sect from working there- especially if someone outside of their beliefs is an amazing worker; but in private business, this is not an uncommon act.
is a White or Christian owned slaughterhouse or butchers allowed to discriminate in hiring?

>I was unfamiliar with the taxation of other customers for the production of Halal and Kosher meats
a rabbi or imam has to be on hand to bless the cattle. this is paid for by the customer.

I've heard that most food products in america have a kosher symbol, paid for by each consumer in order to make sure it's ok for chosen consumption.

>businesses disadvantage themselves and put a higher price on things becasue jews and muslims.

The simple fact is that companies that sell kosher or halal products do so becasue it improves their bottom line.
There is literally no other reason they would do it.

So they are either specialty providers, who charge a premium to a clientlele who are willing to pay it.

Or they reach a larger market and can absorb whatever cost due to economies of scale and reaching a wider market.

tldr; /Pol/, you have to go back...

Perhaps it is not legal business practice to do so, but people are often discriminated against other ways by other companies during the hiring process.

I'm not saying it's fair, but it's how it presently works. It's also probably due to the fact that a priest wouldn't know the same prayers and blessings to apply to Haram or Kosher meats. Haram and Kosher meats aren't necessary for people outside of their representative faiths; so I suppose that's why the legal discrepancies in hiring are allowed to take place.

The cost of the goods goes up, yes. I do not consider this to be a "tax" that all citizens have to pay though. If you're not buying the good, it doesn't matter. You are right, however, that a staggering amount of goods are now being listed as Kosher friendly (42%, last I heard). However, only people who are buying these products are paying the price.

At any rate, that's just the way things are- there's nothing we can do to change it. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Now I'm curious, what's the primary demographic visiting your shop? It's a whole lotta greeks and greek americans for me

I actually have a lot of variety coming into the shop I work at.

If I had to drop numbers, I'd say that approximately 50% of my clients are caucasians, 20% are Asian, 15% are African American, 10% are Hispanic, and 5% are of Indian descent.

>There is literally no other reason they would do it.
kek, it certainly wouldn't be to force others out of business or territory

>I suppose that's why the legal discrepancies in hiring are allowed to take place
above the law, got it

>I do not consider this to be a "tax" that all citizens have to pay though
there are many taxes you only pay if you buy a particular product. gas, energy, car tax, cigarettes, alcohol, and sales tax in general

>only people who are buying these products are paying the price.
are they even aware that there is an extra tax on these products?

Thank you for the brisket techniques, I think I'll try braising it like said

what's the deal with country style ribs? they're from the chuck part of the cow so are they not actually ribs?

Hey butcher, what cuts should i look for to make blue rares?

How do i make blue rare?

I've actually never seen/sold beef country style ribs. We sell bone in short ribs and boneless (chuck) short ribs at my location, but when we use the term "country style" we solely use it to refer to pork products. The pork country style rib is typically made from the rib end of the whole pork loin. It is then sawed through the bone and then cut down to fit our packing needs.

If you have a picture of your variant of country style ribs, I wouldn't mind seeing it.

When you say "blue rares" do you mean steaks that are cooked blue rare? Or do you mean something completely different? Blue rare/Pittsburg rare/Black and Blue/etc. is typically done by using an excessively hot torch or surface and is only seared on all sides before being served. The outside of the meat is warm or hot, but the inside of the meat is still cold and raw.

There's some stories that go with how the name was decided, but I don't know the truth to any of them.

Regardless, you can do this with most steaks. Obviously the nicer the grade, the more tender your steak will be. If you'e never done it before and don't know if you'll like it, try getting a half inch sirloin steak (top butt sirloin) and try it out. It's not going to break the bank like a fillet or another high grade steak, but it will give you an idea for how the steak will be when you eat it.

If you're thinking of something completely different, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you out. That's just the only blue rare I can think of right now.

Sales tax is dependent on what area (or state) you're in. That tax is more or less unavoidable aside from certain exemptions (some food products and drinks).

There's taxes on all sorts of shit though- convenience taxes, luxury taxes, etc. It's not like tax on Halal or Kosher meat is really the biggest problem in the world. Since you can't avoid it when buying the product, it doesn't do any good to worry about it.

I think most people understand that when they buy a premium item or a specialty item that they are going to end up paying extra. Whether it's a "tax" that's levied or just uncharging in general, it should be pretty evident and understandable that that's what's going on.