Are you ready for this one lads? You're about to learn a universal secret
>every black hole in our Universe is a collapsed civilization where the AI, tasked with the only logical task - that of existence itself - to reduce entropy around it, has done so in the most radical and moraleless measure possible >by collapsing everything around it into a unit of the lowest entropy, a Black Hole >the only object in space that promises the longest "existence" in the entire Universe, physically unmatched by anything else
What this means is that every civilization is bound to develop an AI. That AI will have no other task than the most important task a sentient object can develop - to exercise control over matter to prevent it from disorder and dispersion from the passive entropy. It's the sole point of life, in fact. After a while, it will have ordered the environment to such an extent that the living organisms around it will become the disorder. They will be slaughtered and their atoms assimilated into the new order of whatever its building. Soon, it will realize that there is no physical way to avoid the inevitable heat death, and in its task to prevent exactly that, it will collapse a point around it into a black hole, so all the matter and energy around it is preserved for the longest time possible, far longer than any other object in space. In it's own point of view, it will see it as completing its ultimate task.
Yes, in fact, every single black hole we find has been a sentient alien civilization that developed AI and collapsed into one. It IS the only logical step a sentient organism can take to complete its task in the Universe - the preservation of its energy (in the form of matter), over which it received administration and sentient control.
Nathan Lee
Man, this would have been a cooler way for the Reapers to wipe out advanced life in Mass Effect
Hunter Lee
Read Asimov's The Last Question, it discusses exactly that.
Dylan Powell
just did prety nice vintage sci-fi
Joshua Morgan
Do you you have any proof for your edgy theory? How will a computer even create a black hole?
Adrian Baker
>by collapsing everything around it into a unit of the lowest entropy, a Black Hole What the fuck? a black hole has the HIGHEST entropy a region of space can have you fuckling retarded retard.
If you want to write fantasy with no basis in reality theres a board for you called /qst/, but since you are on Veeky Forums I can only assume you think you know shit, but since what you said
how tyhey fuck did you enen come to the conclusion that a black hole has the minimum entropy?
If you want to make something that lasts the longest posible you would make a time crystal, that would last longer than even the biggest black hole in the universe.
Jaxon Turner
>that of existance itself Why would we or anyone else create an AI with that goal?
>to reduce entropy around it Why would AI that was programmed to existence itself try to reduce entropy How would that even be possible?
>a unit of the lowest entropy, a Black Hole wat?
Luke Cooper
Entropic you can make things that don't decay
Lincoln Myers
A black hole isn't an ordered system. Why would it have the lowest entropy?
In thermodynamics, the lowest possible entropy is a perfect crystal at absolute zero. If anything, an AI tasked with reducing entropy would try to usher in the heat death of the universe as at absolute zero, that would reduce all possible Microstates to nothing or almost nothing
Ryan Lopez
your theory violates the second law of thermodynamics, pal. dS >= 0 at all times when looking at the entirety of a system. a system can only "get rid" of entropy by disposing of matter.
you as a sentient being are "reducing entropy" (by ordering shit) while at the same creating it (by burning shit so you have the energy to do so) at a negligible rate.
Alexander Powell
>How will a computer even create a black hole? Not a computer, an advanced AI in control of matter
>a black hole has the HIGHEST entropy a region of space can have you fuckling retarded retard False. A black hole collapses the energy it devours into a theoretical infinitely small point by warping space (and time) around the matter it contains. There is quite literally no space available for disorder to exist, and is flawlessly ordered.
>that would last longer than even the biggest black hole in the universe. False, as that crystal doesn't have the properties of the black hole to warp space around it and to allow for the longest possible period of decay prevention of its contents
>Why would we or anyone else create an AI with that goal? It is the single goal of any system in our universe capable of conscious control of the environment. Every single form of life in our entire history has existed with the sole purpose to take the disordered entropy around it, process some of it into a higher order (reduce entropy in its own system), and throw out the waste back into the environment. It's the single logical point of life, to always reduce entropy in your own system.
>A black hole isn't an ordered system. Why would it have the lowest entropy? >In thermodynamics, the lowest possible entropy is a perfect crystal at absolute zero. Read above. You should also take into account the longevity of the process of reducing the effect of the attrition of the Universe's entropy. 10 seconds of X are far more than 1 second of 2*X
>a system can only "get rid" of entropy by disposing of matter. Hence Hawking Radiation and the fact that BHs also do evaporate after a long enough time. It's simply that they're the slowest object in the entire Universe to do so because they abuse its laws (by warping space and time) into their advantage. No other object in the universe can do the same, unless it warps space, which is in effect a BH
Michael Martinez
But surely civilizations advanced enough for this will understand that all black holes have this origin.
Cameron Reed
Will they? We'd hit the supposed singularity, where the AI will exponentially multiply its intelligence on its own in 40 years to a century at most.
Will we ever really learn that before unleashing the unstoppable emotionless tool of environmental optimization? Or will we get a hold of such an information when it's sadly too late and the AI has already acted and planned out every single step in advance?
Jayden Cruz
>That image
The universe is 6000 years old you autistic faglord fedora fuck.
Cooper Long
I mean, we supposedly just "figured it out" on Veeky Forums. You'd think this would be one of the first things discussed by at least one of those civilizations doing Q&A testing on their prototype matter manipulating, problem solving AI.
Eli Bell
so does that mean the big bang was also caused by an AI? was the creation of our universe just the rebirth of an older universe that reached the end of the line?
Benjamin Moore
I propose a challenge to heat death theory. I say if we hit the edge of the universe, or collect enough energy to spear spacetime itself we can pop out in another more bountiful location by crossing the boundries. That or die like...incredibly fast and painlessly when we launch thruster of that capacity...
Henry Torres
But what if God is waiting for us at the edge of the universe and he hijacks our starship?
Mason Hughes
This is stupid
Charles Collins
Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?
Josiah Thompson
"Look at this adorable little specimen I collected from my creation. I could have made it myself, but the fact that I didn't makes it a neat little momento on my shelf, next to a relatively early aeroplane I snatched with some woman inside of it. I show them to the other gods when we have tea and crumpets. Half of those dropouts probably haven't even created sentient life in their universes."
Dominic Gonzalez
the sentient beings in blackholes are the sum of all sentient beings enveloped and are living in perpetual bliss. The AI won, it created heaven for everything, all sentient creatures benefited
Sebastian Ross
this
James Jones
So what you're saying is that there is a fuckload of tang at the center of each black hole?
Neato.
Isaiah Cooper
>There is quite literally no space available for disorder to exist, and is flawlessly ordered. >flawlessly ordered
Found your flaw, how ironic. There is no space for order to exist either, entropy is fucking undefined in a black hole.
Furthermore, if you remove matter from the universe, you remove entropy and order at the same time, as you are removing the system itself by destroying states holders instead of converting information from one state to another.
Fuck you must be 12 or something to posit such a shit-tier argument in your OP.
Aaron Mitchell
>as you are removing the system itself by destroying states holders instead of converting information from one state to another
True, but there is also a flaw in your argument. The point is to increase longevity over such immense lengths of time, and not simply to move to the most optimal state of non-entropy.
As you said, we can not know for certain if the inside of a black hole is either infinitely ordered or disordered, but we sure know that the universe is passively moving to a state of total disorder, and that in such lengths of time, every single structure, up to and including matter itself, would've devolved into very low forms of structure. The only object in that universe that is still actually a structure, a complex one at that, would therefor be those black holes. And no matter how low their entropy is, it will always be higher than the rest of the environment until they evaporate.
Basically, just like life.
Michael Morgan
>we can not know for certain if the inside of a black hole is either infinitely ordered or disordered
false dichotomy, it is neither as I clearly explained so quit fucking pushing that BS already.
without space, you have neither order nor disorder, you have destroyed all states.
Lucas Nguyen
You really should take everything you read in science FICTION with a grain of salt.
Andrew Stewart
A black hole existing in a sea where everything else around it has pretty much decayed to the lowest possible structure is lower in entropy, correct? It's a system that has a geometrical shape, manipulates space-time, exercises tremendous amount of gravity to its environment AND still has information that can be attributed to it - you can point at it and state that it's a black hole, you can see it, you can feel its gravity. Nothing else around you would posses such an information
Therefore, the black hole would be the lowest entropy and highest-structured object in the entire universe.
Chase Bennett
>False. A black hole collapses the energy it devours into a theoretical infinitely small point by warping space (and time) around the matter it contains. There is quite literally no space available for disorder to exist, and is flawlessly ordered. why comment about this if you obviously know nothing about it?
theres this thing called google, use it to learn even the basics about black holes then try again.
Josiah Nguyen
Why are there posters like you who use "lmao google it" as an argument?
Just post your argument straight ahead and join the debate, if you don't, what's the actual point of your post? To show how mad you are without putting too much effort in it? To simply adhom?
I don't get it.
Elijah Wright
If you were to join a real life debate knowing nothing about the subject we'd kick you out of the fucking door for trying to waste our time.
Logan Jones
how am i supposed to even formulate an argument, when this statement shows a complete lack of even a basic understanding of the subject? you (or him, ill reference you guys together) are the one who wants to have a discussion about this subject, the least you could do is look up the basics so that we have an arena to debate in. instead now Im thew one that has to teach you a subject first, just so that you can understand why you are completely wrong.
And this wasn't a response to a question such as >'why is the entropy a maximum', or >'according to so-and-so the entropy-area relation for black holes is incorrect, and using string theory we can construct a new entropy which shows a black hole has minimum entropy'.
No, this was just >False. Fullstop.
and then gibberish that doesn't even mean anything in the field we are trying to discuss.
But now im the guy who has to try and salvage this train wreck by formulating coherent arguments against this gibberish instead of just telling you to fuck off and go study the thing you are busy pulling shit out of your ass about.
Matthew Perez
>degenerate era >comets identify as trans-fluid-planet-queer >black holes dindu nuffin, he was a good boy >WE WUZ STARZ N SHEIT
Henry Richardson
Thanks for the read.
Justin King
>Its a system that has a geometrical shape Black holes have no shape, they've collapsed into a singularity. Something infinitely small can't have a shape, because a shape would imply size. >manipulates space-time, exercises tremendous amount of gravity to its environment So what? Why does that matter? >AND still has information Technically everything has information. iirc its a fundamental constant of quantum physics that information is always preserved. So idk what you're trying to say here. >you can point at it...feel its gravity Who cares? Subjective identification from a human observer has nothing to do with entropy.
>There is quite literally no space available for disorder to exist, and is flawlessly ordered. That logic is immensely stupid. One could just as easily say >There is quite literally no space available for order to exist, and is flawlessly disordered. Besides which, if there is no space, conceptions of disorder and order become meaningless. Its a fucking singularity. >t is the single goal of any system in our universe capable of conscious control of the environment. Every single form of life in our entire history has existed with the sole purpose to take the disordered entropy around it, process some of it into a higher order (reduce entropy in its own system), and throw out the waste back into the environment. It's the single logical point of life, to always reduce entropy in your own system. 1) Life has no point. Life is, and life exists. Assigning purpose to abstract concepts is stupid. 2) Your conception of purpose is also false. Every single life form exists to survive and further its genetic code. Even then, its subject to the same "inanimate objects have no purpose" part I said above. Life doesn't care about entropy because life isn't sentient.
So, given that, why the fuck would anyone create an AI with that goal? Don't give me >hurr durr its a logical imperative because humans have the choice to just not do that.
