Is anyone else seeing this huge Scientism strain running throughout public discourse? Maybe I'm spending too much time on Reddit, where everyone is either an SJW or suffering from Scientism. And it's not just STEM autists, it's even normies. It seems there's a fucking "Expert" for everything.
Economists, psychologists, historians, journalists, political "scientists", policy "experts"... fucking hell, and I used to laugh at Africans because of witch doctors!
Too bad I don't care about your opinion in this off-topic thread made by a dumb frogposter
kill yourself my man
Julian Evans
>scientists belong on the same level as witch doctors Nice meme friendo
Dominic Jenkins
Blind adherence to scientific dogma and unverified claims is an affront to the scientific method and makes me want to puke it's so vile.
Jace Johnson
solid argument pussy
Christian Cooper
There is a middle ground between blind adherence to dogma and "lol scientists are dumb" That being said, I've got a feeling that a bitter frogposter like yourself is only upset about this because of some weird inferiority complex tbqh
Ryder Russell
>they can't bridge the gaps through reason
i'm starting to think the philosophically minded are much rarer than is commonly believed
Matthew Gomez
Calm down you autist It runs both fucking ways
Hearing Zizek talk about quantum physics makes me want to blow my brains out
People that are ignorant about a subject should not open their stupid fucking mouths
Andrew Allen
Too bad no one uses it correctly. When people on the various Chans rant about Scientism they don't even understand simple empercism because feels >reals
>It seems there's a fucking "Expert" for everything
Thats a different issue, thats our society trying to professional and restrict free enterprise for the purposes of consistency. And in many, many cases its a good thing because all you have to do is look at some of the books that come out recently full of absolute fucking shit. Are you saying there are no criticisms for Chariot of the Gods because MUH MAINSTREAM theorists?
Matthew Johnson
I like how Zizek refers to the tendency to use science as a tool. He critiques our approach to sociology and psychology as a use of private reason.
Nolan Jones
Somewhat. It even touches this board whenever somebody mentions metaphysics, even though everyone here is ready to tear it apart in any other context. It's a confused and rather sad thing
Blake Gomez
To an extent we should defer to experts on topics within that domain. Public discourse often fails to qualify what those domains actually are and some experts speak outside of their domain.
Sebastian Kelly
>Maybe I'm spending too much time on Reddit Thread up for five hours and nobody has mentioned this. Looks like the rumors of a takeover were true.
Samuel Turner
Generalizing, providing no examples, and providing no solutions.
>Like, does anyone think that science is teh bad and dumb though? Because of my English Lit degree?
kys, TS.
David Moore
I guess it might be fun for you to have never spoken a word.
Lucas Brown
WHEREOF ONE CANNOT SPEAK
THEREOF ONE MUST BE SILENT
Jonathan Price
ITT: feels>reals
Ethan Rodriguez
Scientism is a legitimate term, and 'Pop Scientists' like Dawkins/etc started it, by implying (if not demanding) that Science can (and should) exist without (or even at the expense of) the Humanities.
They pitted both against one another, and modern 'Science' culture (TBBT, I Fucking Love Science, etc) have only made things worse. I recall a lecture where Dawkins is asked, by a Philosopher of Science, what he thinks is the future of his subject (or what will happen next/etc). Dawkins pretty much responds in saying that he thinks the guy's subject shouldn't exist (and thus his job/etc).
The issue is that you don't see Humanities enthusiasts saying the same about STEM subjects, or shitting on its constituent parts, except in self-defence.
I'll simply say what I've said in another thread: Science is the pursuit of knowledge, whilst the Humanities are the pursuit of wisdom. Both compliment one another, and arguably cannot exist without each other. STEM holds the Humanities to account when they start peddling garbage like Freudian Psychoanalytics, and the Humanities hold STEM to account when they start 'experimenting' with things like atom bombs/etc.
By the way OP, you could have stopped this whole shitstorm by using the term Positivism, which is basically the same thing. Nietzsche/Wittgenstein were still among the first to realize that 'Scientism' isn't a good thing, if not dangerous, as Humans do in fact require the illogical - to a degree.
Oliver Torres
>I recall a lecture where Dawkins is asked, by a Philosopher of Science, what he thinks is the future of his subject (or what will happen next/etc). Dawkins pretty much responds in saying that he thinks the guy's subject shouldn't exist (and thus his job/etc).
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
Benjamin Nguyen
Explain what's wrong with "scientism" without appealing to buzzwords, dumb frogposter.
Owen Cooper
what kind of crazy hobo do you have to be to listen only to mountain goats?
Wyatt Lopez
...
Matthew Morales
The scientists want an unlimited range of experimentation, which includes experimentation on human beings. Therefore, they have to destroy history, the humanities, and philosophy - anything that would uphold humanity as something sacred or protected, and rescue it from the test tube and the scalpel. This anti-humanist bent in science goes with the widespread promotion of clearly inhuman practices, such as extermination of children in the womb.
Owen Hernandez
My body, my rights.
End of discussion.
Eli Morgan
>reals
Sebastian Young
>by implying (if not demanding) that Science can (and should) exist without (or even at the expense of) the Humanities. >Science is the pursuit of knowledge, whilst the Humanities are the pursuit of wisdom You didn't explain anything, kiddo.
Tyler Diaz
Suit yourself, my explanation is sound.
Tyler Morales
There are no 'facts' (reals), only interpretations.
Tyler Fisher
>My body, my rights.
legitimate point though, because scientistic technocrats are going down the line of saying you have no inherent rights and that your body belongs to the laboratory for scientific study
Angel Davis
>There are no 'facts' (reals), only interpretations.
How can there be any interpretation without a fact to interpret?
William Peterson
No, it's not.
>peddling garbage like Freudian Psychoanalytics You've got nothing to back up this claim, for example.
Brandon Campbell
does reality exist independently of sense experience?
Leo Lewis
By definition, we only interpret impressions/appearances.
>He thinks it doesn't happen
A lot of it's alive and well in France, bud.
Owen Gray
Existence dies with me.
The world is my idea.
Jose Barnes
> Nietzsche/Wittgenstein were still among the first to realize that 'Scientism' isn't a good thing, if not dangerous, as Humans do in fact require the illogical - to a degree. >as Humans do in fact require the illogical
Do frame it in those terms; those are outmoded Rationalist vs. Romanticist terms that make an artificial divide between the human intellect, or mind, and the human will, or heart. Rationalists say that we should be logical to the detriment of our passions; Romantics say that we should be passionate to the detriment of our reason. Both proceed from a false Cartesian understanding of human nature which sees the mind and the body as radically separate. A real and logical regard for human nature brings passion in line with reason without destroying passion; Positivist autists want to crush passion and deform human nature, where real philosophy teaches us that the passions are good, and virtue involves properly directing our passions. The picture of the mad scientist who is willing to do the most atrocious acts to acquire a bit of knowledge is not a wise man, he is a madman.
Lucas Morgan
>, we only interpret impressions/appearances.
And from what do we receive our impressions, and what is it that makes an appearance to us?
Nicholas Baker
cont.
The passions are not inherently illogical, so it is false to say that "humans require the illogical". In fact, as rational creatures, it is imperative that we always shun what is illogical, because it is contrary to our rational nature.
Art and music and romantic love are not illogical in themselves, because they appeal to the form of human nature which is logical.
Grayson Roberts
Or, to be it another way, logic is not limited to the mathematical. There is more to logic than sheer deduction; it also requires the premisses upon which deduction is performed, and these premisses are not always mathematical. There is a logical way to reason about human passion, just as there is a logical way to reason about numbers.
Zachary Perry
this fucking thread again >wooo i have such deep thoughts >my feelings are just as important as anything those nasty scientists say
then why do you always leave your house by the door on the ground level? try climbing out of an upstairs window and just making your own interpretation of gravity and floating away
>scientistic technocrats are going down the line of saying you have no inherent rights and that your body belongs to the laboratory for scientific study
[citation needed]
Jaxson Brooks
Gravity is a correct interpretation.
That doesn't make it a fact.
Luke Thomas
>It runs both fucking ways >Hearing Zizek talk about quantum physics makes me want to blow my brains out Fucking THIS
Joshua Myers
is it within the ambit of the scientific method to prove the 'reality' of reality?
can scientists even think to ask such a question?
David Harris
Just read Heidegger's The Question Concerning Technology, guys.
>Is not what Badiou calls the Event, at its most basic, the very rise of re-presentation or appearing out of the flat stupidity of being? So that the Event proper (the Truth-Event in Badiou’s sense) is the For-itself of the In-itself of appearing? Insofar as appearing is always appearing for a thought (for a thinking subject), we can go further and say that the rise of a thought as such is an Event―as Badiou likes to say, thought as such is communist.
Luke Barnes
>human nature which is logical what are you smoking
Daniel Hernandez
>Tfw you will never get paid for writing drivel
Hey, at least I can write it for free on Veeky Forums
Parker Fisher
But when we focus on getting certain impressions through certain methods (although having immutability of my perceptive abilities as an axiom), we get perceptions which happen to be logical when related to other perceptions, that make a world of connected and dependent impressions and which understanding ends up being useful. Chemistry could be ideal bullshit just like maths, but even tho, "canon" chemistry methods help us synthetize (subjetively) useful substances.
Isaac Cook
>we get perceptions which happen to be logical when related to other perceptions
There's no objective way to measure this.
Jason Sullivan
Just because humans often act against reason does not mean that human nature isn't essentially reason. We are constantly reasoning with ourselves, reasoning with our circumstances; all our art, science, and law proceeds from our rational nature. To see that human nature is rational you just have to compare us with the rest of the animals which do not reason.
Juan Jenkins
Correct, which is why subjectivism, which says that all human knowledge is perception and the perception of perception, is sophistry.
Robert James
You are blowing the extent of "scientism" way the fuck out of proportion. Autists like Dawkins might positivist nay sayers but the vast majority of pop scientists, real scientists and popular intellectuals dont think that way. Carl Sagan or coloured science man never claimed this, all Chomsky ever claimed was that alot of the crap the American government feeds us can be discounted with simple reason and research, vast majority of journalists dont even give a fuck about facts, and so on. The reason why it seems like they only adhere to science is because they are fighting an uphill battle. Dawkins has been fighting his nearly his entire life so that half this country stops thinkin the Bible is the literal truth. Sagan unsuccessfully launched a campaign on pseudo-science. This country is way too spooked for true philosophy or true science to breed and develop, it needs a mental insecticide
Xavier Cook
There is for me
Logan Lee
whatever tell me what you're smoking
Isaiah Morris
Yes, but if you believe that, you can very easily fall into the trap of objectivism, which is (quite literally) taking everything for granted. That is, assuming our perceptions are entirely correct.
If that is the case, then why did we ever doubt them?
Josiah Allen
This book touches upon this topic OP.
Jaxson Smith
There's science, which is, as an intellectual tradition, very successful. That includes both philosophical foundations of science and the methods developed, which are found mainly in physics and mathematics. Ignoring all this, which many modern "philosophers" and "intellectuals", especially in humanities' departments, like to do, just makes a fool out of oneself.
There also are STEM autists, who, being competent in their own fields, are often completely inadequate in humanities. And they don't realise that they are inadequate, which makes it even worse.
And then there are "believers in science". These people were brought up in christian culture in which God was replaced by Progress achieved by Science. These just wait for a paradise on earth to come through technological advances, and will aggressively defend their promised paradise from any critique.
Hunter Nelson
"Logical", or "rational", in common speech means something like "acting in the optimal way to achieve certain result". Without a fixed result, though, the notion of "being logical" is meaningless. So humans are neither logical nor illogical, they are simply as they are. To discuss rationality we need to bring up the goal first, and there are no inherent goals.
Joseph Kelly
>When people on the various Chans rant about Scientism they don't even understand simple empercism because feels >reals More often than not "studies" will show two contradictory things though. You can bend the data very often to your own liking and more often than not, scientists are actually guilty of that.
Adam Johnson
Misuses of the methodology do not render the method itself wrong. Moreover, applying scientific method correctly requires always checking your own results, as well as others' results that you use, for consistency and errors.
Grayson Stewart
Absolutely. Which we need to eliminate as much crap from the pubic debate as we can so people can stop twisting or rejecting valid scientific views for their own ends whether its church groups and creationism or natural medicine advocates and vaccine scaremongering. The philosophers can start by stopping these rants about how there is an overemphasis on empiricism and/or Hegel is the devil, which can be described as nothing short of being autistic.
Jaxon Brooks
>He's unironically a positivist
Anthony Clark
When certain ideas claim to be science, we should properly test them against scientific rigour.
Owen Johnson
>Maybe I'm spending too much time on Reddit
Jack Brown
Ffs...
Read Sellars Empiricism and philosophy of mind. It's a hard fucking book, so it'll probably go over your head, but theres a reason why philosophers claim it's being overemphasized. But youve got it all figured out, huh, and they should stop doing that.
Thomas Lopez
So you're saying we shouldn't consult people who have spent their adult lives learning about specific subjects when we find ourselves involved in a problem about that specific subject?
>There seems to be damage being done to our local ecosystem but fuck those witch-doctor ecologists and their 'science'!
That's dumb, my man.
The business of becoming accredited and recognized as an expert is a little bit more murky and up for debate, but we still need learned people
Also you admit to being a Plebbit browser, so you might as well just gtfo
Austin Jackson
>So you're saying we shouldn't consult people who have spent their adult lives learning about specific subjects when we find ourselves involved in a problem about that specific subject?
Nah, just that we shouldn't treat them as infallible; nor view science as the answer to all of our problems, when it clearly isn't.
IN FAIRNESS, this goes both ways. There are many scientists who hate the fact that science is politicized.
Jaxon Lopez
Science is just empiricism. Empiricism is the only way to settle on shared truths. Sorry, English majors.
Hunter Young
>Science is the pursuit of knowledge, whilst the Humanities are the pursuit of wisdom
You do know that what you said sounds like nothing but a deepity, right?
Logan Sanchez
>Humans do in fact require the illogical
Non-sense.
Kayden Miller
in reality i don't think they are treated infallibly a truly well rounded answer to a problem should consist of multiple opinions, expert and not and experts can be shot down and proved wrong, they have before and they will again
Also, if you, or anyone for that matter, thinks that science can be used to solve all of life's problems, then you're just an idiot, despite what your physics or chemistry marks are. So in this regard I agree
Easton Bennett
>Empiricism is the only way to settle on shared truths.
Lel.
>You do know that what you said sounds like nothing but a deepity, right?
Only if you believe knowledge and wisdom to be the same thing, retard. Also:
>2016 >Using Dan Dennett terminology unironically
I'll bet you call yourself a 'Bright' too, hm?
Owen Sullivan
It's demonstrably true.
Luis James
How is science just empiricism? That's just silly. If that was true, how would we know about black holes and shit?
That being said, empiricism could and should be used to study the multiverse. But the word universe for everything is an outdated term.
John King
I agree, witch doctors are smarter.
Chase Lopez
>It's demonstrably true.
I dare anyone to "demonstrate" this "truth" without using a completely retarded notion of what logic is.
Carter Campbell
Secular thought must crush all opposition under the iron treads of universal humanistic love.
Hail Science.
Dominic Wood
I'm inclined to agree with the other bloke.
Simply on the basis that "Logic" is an imperfect system, one invented by the human mind to describe reality as it was then understood; not circumscribe around it and declare anything outside itself to be false.
Logic is just another invented thing; there is no more "need" for it in a human life than there is for religion.
You can quite easily live like an unthinking animal for instance; you personally are just unprepared to.
Anthony Lewis
as a counterpoint just consider formalism in mathematics - would a theorem properly derived from ZFC not be a shared truth?
Matthew Cooper
>Blind adherence to scientific dogma I see what you did there :p No but really, what makes you say that?
Asher Bell
Having STEM's in charge of industrial society leads to this.
Alexander Lopez
>he doesn't realize how flawed this argument is Do you really think that in 3000 years of philosophical debate nobody thought of this argument pal? I won't even try to bust you on it, do a little critical thinking and try to figure out what's wrong with prioritizing science over logic.
Tyler Cruz
DAMN RIGHT
Landon King
>evola
Just, go
Matthew Jackson
I will bet £100 you haven't read him, lad.
Nathan Sanchez
I tried, but I have an intolerance to bullshit
John Wood
>m'dawkins
Brody Perry
What does Dawkins have to do with my disinterest in Evola's bullshit
Kevin Morgan
>reals
Gavin Bailey
>unverified claims literally anything but science
Dominic Flores
Indeed, good sir. I too find that Evola just simply is not up to the necessary intellectual caliber from which I may derive enjoyment.
His work shows a distinct lack of rationality per se.
Chase Thomas
>I'll bet you call yourself a 'Bright' too, hm? >>> > Anonymous 06/12/16(Sun)16:37:53 No.8154627▶ nic e meme can i use iut
John Smith
What the fuck happened with this post?
Adam Young
complete fucking quackery
and this is coming from a phil/pure math major
but hey, at least it's not string theory
Hunter Wilson
>He's not smart enough to understand the Slovenian
Jace Morales
Sceintism is just as dogmatic of a belief system as any fundamentalist religious belief that they criticize.
Dylan Jones
>he's smart enough to gargle his semen indiscriminately, instead
Ayden Price
Zizek likes that loathsome Bohr/Copenhagen shit, which is vitalism.