Who chained them in the cave in the first place

Yes?

It only gets worse the further down you go. Bacteria are under unbearable pain.

Are they really though? Do they really have capacity for pain? Part of what makes pain so painful is our knowledge and past experience saying it's bad, but I can't imagine that bacteria can have such deep experiences.

Isn't it the opposite? The more you focus on where the pain is happening the less painful it feels? Looking away from a needle makes it feel more painful so the more diffuse a consciousness is the more pain it feels. The darkness at the end of time will be the most painful experience of all.

Just finished reading Crito. Socrates' definition of 'what is just' a shit:

>"If we take it upon ourselves to destroy you because we think it is just to do so, you'll attempt to destroy us, the laws, and your fatherland, to the best of your ability? And you'll claim, will you, that in doing this you'll be acting justly?

>A fatherland is something is something more valuable, venerable, holier and more privileged...one must honour one's fatherland...persuading it to change its mind or doing what it says, unresistingly...don't you see that that's what one has to do, and that's where justice lies?"

His whole idea is that: Athenians/Law/State > Socrates/Individual.

He lacks nuance, and does not consider whether it is necessarily unjust to react (rather than submit) to an unjust law/state/etc. There is nothing apparently 'just' in and by itself - it needs the approval of the law/state/etc.

The problem he's left me with this is: in Euthyphro, he argues whether things are good because they are loved by the gods, or if they are loved by the gods because they are good. His conclusion is good, in theory; but consistently elsewhere, he errs in favour of the former.

Something is 'good' or 'just' because it loved (and thus commanded) by the gods/Athenians/law/state. He submits to an unjust ruling, and an unjust fate, precisely because it is ordained by the Athenians/law/state, and because he believes it to be ordained by the gods.

If he truly believed what is 'just' is 'just' independently of all these things, why does he submit to them when they behave or rule unjustly? Vanity? Patriotism? Lack of imagination? I'm trying to figure it out.

I can kinda see why Nietzsche hated him (and by extension, Plato) so much.

There's been work done on this, but the short version is he's trolling Crito.

Have you compared the Crito to the Apology, by the way? The problem you're reacting to is intentional.

>Looking away from a needle makes it feel more painful
needles can't feel pain, idiot

>who chained them in the cave in the first place
when you go to cinima, who chains you in the chair?

it's an allegory*

I'm pretty sure being currently tortured is worse than remembering being tortured

whatever adorno, it's not the same

Lol wut

Pain is signaled by nociceptors. It's a specific cell type that isn't present in lower life forms. So no, bacteria can't feel pain. Aversion responses are not the same thing as experiencing pain.

the bourgeoiREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
GIVE ME MY MEANS OF PRODUCTION
FUCK THE RICH
CLASS WAR NOW

I'm no bacteria expert desu

you use a pretty arbitrary and unscientific definition of pain, it also looks as an example of circular logic - pain it's what is signalled by pain receptors

keked at filename. Shitpost/10

this man is a reddit poster

Seconded unironically. Even smart folk dont like to think about oblivion and other like topics.

They like being in the cave, and assault those that try to bring them out.

genuine question from a friend of a friend when they learned about this at uni:
>but how did they find food in a cave?

If they're chained to a wall, how can there be things behind them?

Please guys I dont understand

Plato btfo.

you mean how can there be things behind a wall?

it's a short wall and there are people behind it holding things over it

Demiurge