Veganism and the Environment

I'd like to know if there has been any counter research

>"Cowspiracy"

Legit

>"Forks Over Knives"

Bullshit

>"From Farm to Fridge"

Legit

>The China Study

Not a study, but a book.

Bullshit.

The meat industry is ethically detestable and the number one contributor to greenhouse gas emissions; however, humans evolved to consume a varied diet which includes meat.

The veganism for ideal health and meat causes every disease known to man sentiment is a giant pseudoscientific meme.

Vegetables are healthy as fuck for more reasons than one, though; therefore try to fit them in whenever you can, e.g. in a curry or stew.

To effectively live on a vegan diet, one would need to consume 10x as much food as an omnivore. If we were all vegan, there'd only be a couple million of us, and those animal friends of ours would be direct competitors.

tfw tried to calculate the amount of broccoli
and i couldnt solve it i should kill myself

so we need a fucking plate full of broccoli
as opposed to just 5g of it?

>If we were all vegan, there'd only be a couple million of us,
Because even hippie chicks don't want to fuck a vegan?

>11.1g of protein
>5g of beef
sign me up for this bulk beef, my body is ready

Measuring proteins only by mass is incredibly retarded. You also have to take into account that the human body is using some amino-acids it can not produce. Now guess where you find exactly those acids, while they are severely lacking elsewhere?

Apparently, vegetarians are smarter:
psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201005/why-vegetarians-are-more-intelligent-meat-eaters

Interesting link user. Weird how the Americans and the English differ. The sentence 'Vegetarianism would therefore be an evolutionarily novel value and lifestyle, as well as a luxury of abundance.' didn't make a ton of sense, so I looked it up.

phys.org/news/2010-02-intelligent-people-unnatural-values-human.html

From the article: "More intelligent people are significantly more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to the human species in evolutionary history."

This shit is fascinating. At least now I can claim my autistic quirks mean I'm highly intelligent.

It's complicated.

On one hand, I know very few low class vegans aside from some hippies, crust punks and Antifa-types (the latter two of which are almost always mutually inclusive) since the vast majority of them came from comfortable middle class liberal homes. While intelligent rednecks exist, they're few and far between, and the intelligence they possess can be chalked up to practical wisdom and street smarts; not to say that I don't prefer the company of a good humored hick to a pedantic leftist.

On the other hand, developing habits which are novel to the species isn't necessarily an indicator of higher intelligence (see: appeal to novelty fallacy). By reducing all of humanity down to the IQ, /pol/acks and tumblrinas neglect that action is necessary for intelligence to amount to anything. Anyone can passively boast about their supposed higher intellect, but few can prove it means jackshit.

All documentaries are ideological garbage, designed to manipulate low-quality people.

apparently doing something that our ancestors didn't as much makes you smarter?

by that logic, the most intelligent people are the ones who have an AIDS fetish.

I'd never let people take my meat away

BUT, there is a case for stopping animal factory farming once producing meat in lab is perfected and cheap.

Would Veeky Forums be okay with this? Would you all be okay with outlawing factory farming if we can produce the same quality steaks for the same price in a laboratory? Do you think the general population would be okay with it or they'd freak out (as they already did when the news of the "Frankenstein-burger" came out)?

The problem is not the meat, automotive or whatever industry it is our population size (most of which is worthless, see: npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/09/310114739/whats-your-major-four-decades-of-college-degrees-in-1-graph). I'm not going to give up eating something I enjoy because you assholes can't control your sex drives.

Nigga, broccoli is so porous. You can blend a bowl of broccoli down the the size of a serving of steak
Why do people say vegan food taste shit? Are they implying the entire produce isle is shit? That rice, grains, and legumes is shit? That Juice, soda and the billions of recipes that dont use meat is shit?

Or are they referring to the small selection of shitty frozen packaged "meat alternatives"?

meat alternatives are shit
not the vegan diet

Lol the logic goes the other way. It's more along the lines of intelligent people are more likely to experiment as well as accept the crazy. Doing said crazy thing does not make one smart. This is sometimes good for the species and sometimes bad. Just look up any of those studies about highly intelligent people being more susceptible to not only trying drugs, but being more susceptible to addiction as well. That certainly doesn't mean that drug users are smarter than non-drug users.

t. Plato

I addressed this here.
Progressives are terminally afflicted with chronological snobbery, except for film and the arts. Only in that context is everything old better than everything new (see how they all have apoplectic shitfits about Michael Bay).

>trys vegan diet
>guess I cant have chicken
>buys fake chicken
>upset because it doesn't taste like real chicken
WHO WOULD OF THUNK

buy some fuckin vegetables you ignorant americans

tfw American and i run into those kinds of people all the time.

meat contains better proteins than plants.

which is why Vegetarians have to eat a varied selection of plant proteins.

I might be mistaken, but isn't a variety of foods better for you anyway?

Hence our urges to be in mood for different foods all the time? Biologically to make sure we get all our nutrients?

I think I'm paraphrasing a scishow video or something.

just look up studies comparing proteins in meat vs proteins in plants.

intelligent people do more drugs and drink more to get different mind altering states and because having a highly active mind makes it harder to wind off and relax and not think about things so much.
vegetarianism provides none of that. starvation does though.

oh wow impact/consumtion *consumtion/person*persons = impact
what a revolutionary model

Why do you pretend to know what you're talking about. Seriously. Why.

Meat tastes good.

If it destroys the environment, that merely means it replaces other predator-prey relationships through habitat destruction.

Why one form of predation is supposed to be better than another is completely baffling to me.

But if I have to choice to eat meat or not eat meat, of course I eat it.

"per 100 CALORIES" You'd probably have to eat a literal ton of broccoli to get 100 calories.

>Are we to grovel
What do you mean by "we", Peasant?

>If it destroys the environment,
>that merely means it replaces
>other predator-prey relationships
No, that is not what it "merely means".
Lrn2environment fgt pls

>WHO WOULD OF THUNK
A: nobody with any concept of grammar.

>eat a literal ton of broccoli to get 100 calories
it's more like a literal 329g of broccoli
to get 100 calories, fgt pls
fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/LabelingNutrition/ucm114222.htm

are we all just gonna ignore this?

ok

Personally,I would agree,but society always gets teriffied when they hear that something is man-made or new.

This was the case throughout all of history.

It happened when cell-phones came out,when books started being mass produced,when those pesky carriages without horses came out,and so on.

History is full of such examples,and the terror eill stop only when older people are no longer here

85 grams of beef has 22 grams of protein and

85 grams of broccoli has 2.4 grams of protein.

Protip: You can check this shit on google.

Alright user, ex-vegan faggot here.
No, I wasn't some SJW or Tumblrina vegan. I just bought in to the propaganda and tried it out for a few months.

Right off of the bat; YES, it does help with curing ailments and such. HOWEVER, the fix is really only temporary before either other shit starts happening or the same shit starts up again after a long period of time. That does exclude blood related problems though, those are pretty much permanently fixed if you go permanently vegan.
Really, the whole "Forks Over Knives" cure all veganism should be viewed as more like a temporary treatment, like a prescription that is only taken over such a period of time. It's a hard as hell life style to keep up with unless you're like me and just naturally don't have a whole lot of access to meat to begin with. However in terms of clean up, it does work, it just isn't great as a lifestyle.

>The China Study

Stop reading there

that pic is highly missleading.

Neu5gc.

>Are the vegans right?

About lots of things. They still don't have a good source of vitamin B though

>Are we to grovel before vegans' infinite wisdom and moral authority?

AHAHAhahaha no

>To effectively live on a vegan diet, one would need to consume 10x as much food as an omnivore. If we were all vegan, there'd only be a couple million of us, and those animal friends of ours would be direct competitors.

To get 1000 calories from meat, you must grow 10000 calories of vegetables to feed your meatstock.

You have to count the entire cycle, otherwise you're missing important parts of the puzzle.

>AHAHAhahaha no
AHAHAhahaha yes
Down on your knees, peasant. This is your salvation.

>10x as much food as an omnivore

Not... so much, maybe 2x or 3x, the problem with vegan diets is that they have to be varied to reach for all the nutrients and they have to watch closer what they eat so they don't end up lacking something.

t. newfag.

>proposing veganism as
>panacea for all that ails us
You're greatly overstating your case,
and misrepresenting your opponents,
Mister Hyperbole.

t. knee-jerk defender of the ignorant

t. t.

Quality of plant matter considered acceptable for human consumption is much higher than for animals, though.

I don't think the solution would have to be extreme downsizing and veganism. If meat production was cut down to whatever was the most optimal (poultry) and it didn't go into making nuggets and novelty hamburgers for already obese people we'd likely be able to enjoy meat and other animal-based products like eggs.

And there's also the population issue. Scale down population, food production scales down as well. It's a futile effort to try to plan the most stripped down mode of living when there's going to be another three billion people or whatever. It doesn't have to be one or the other, there needs to be a depopulation effort (family planning, not mass killings) that takes place simultaneously with cutting down on consumerist excess and wasteful production methods.

>That's a good thing
You're eating something that's lived the majority of its life practically half dead. Growth hormone isn't just to increase yield, it's to ensure you have to spend less on antibiotics and that your thing survives long enough to yield viable meat.

Youre completely ignoring the huge areas of the world covered in grasslands that are suitable for grazing, but not growing field crops.

vegans will always ignore the needs of people that arent first world country city-dwelling hipsters

Most of them are speaking strictly within their own immediate context. Yet again, in typical meat eater fashion, you're misrepresenting the supposed "average" opponent, and the scope of their statements, to ignore the core substance of the matter.

I just got done eating some turkey, and you really are absolute flimsy gutter trash. Get it together please, for everyone's sake.

What? What I meant that you can't just feed humans with the 1/10th of what is currently being fed to animals and call it a day because calories add up. Basically this + the fact that leftovers from human food production are used as fodder too.

Fucking decimated

I think this is the worst meat eater meme

>resorts to namecalling
typical vegan "argumentation"

>missing the point that much

no shit, rich countries consume more meat

>resorts

>strictly within their own immediate context
thats pretty much what I said.

>ignore the core substance of the matter
And what is that? Most vegans mainly appeal to emotions and want to be morally superior

>resort
>[ri-zawrt]
>to have recourse for use, help, or accomplishing something, often as a final available option or resource:
>to go, especially frequently or customarily:

I dont like the implications of everybody going vegan.

Indeed, hence no resorting is occurring.

Proper argument will beget proper argument. Spending life as the consistent bigger person is a maddening waste of energy.

>thats pretty much what I said.
You more or less implied that vegans are all first world city dwelling hipsters, which has multiple layers of nonsense embedded into it.

>Most vegans mainly appeal to emotions and want to be morally superior
Refer to my initial post. You are polluting your mind, and the overall dialogue, with irrelevant trivialities that may or may not be true in a given instance, and have no meaningful relation with anything in the topic.

Shift your mindset towards a legitimate exchange about the nature of animal use by modern humans, what ancillary aspects and broader effects are involved, and the ideal state of the world as a whole. Running your mouth about "they think" "they do" "I think they think" "memememeheememe" is the equivalent of he says she says bullshit. If it has no functional impact, it is irrelevant and will be stripped. Do these things, and you'll probably get a real conversation out of someone and everyone will walk away feeling net better than they would otherwise.

My time is up here. Soon I will run out of food, then I will begin to starve to death. Then they will come take my most everything and anything, unless I go find a way to magically make money very quickly.

Fuck all of you, b-t-dubs.

>hence no resorting is occurring
>and you really are absolute flimsy gutter trash
>Get it together please, for everyone's sake
seemed like butthurt namecalling to me.

You dont feed cows vegetables you fucking idiot. You feed them grass, which isnt edible by humans anyway.

If you had said grain, you might have had a point.

Sometimes too heavy and rapid a truth is difficult to take.
Don't worry, your capacity for reason will return. You will normalize this burden soon, and you will have the means to accept and move on.

Take your autism medication.

>You more or less implied that vegans
I didnt. But I see how my statement was a little misleading. I was refering to people and behavior I actually experienced (i live in a first world country). So, sorry for the overgeneralisation. Not even all vegans here act in that morally superior way.

>more patronising nonsense
>questions other peoples capacity to reason
Oh the irony. Better share some of your "truth" instead of butthurt namecalling. It will be a much more productive thread

Cowspiracy is a result of Commiefornians thinking water is a limited resource and that their "drought" has nothing to do with them not using desalination.

>sense of grammar
>"who would of thunk"
It was mockery. A joke. I'm surprised you haven't heard it before?

Sorry though, I forgot to cater my sarcasm to the autistic posters of Veeky Forums

>desalination
When you must use terrifying amounts of energy to convert seawater into freshwater using a process that kills coastal marine life just to sustain local settlement and economy, it is safe to say freshwater IS a limited resource

>Sorry though, I forgot to cater my sarcasm to the autistic posters of Veeky Forums
It's all your fault.

cont.
That was a joke too by the way. You know, because autistic people have trouble understanding sarcasm.

Just giving a faggot a hand.

>Just giving a faggot a hand.

"If you give a faggot a hand, he takes the whole underarm"

>What is rain.
>How do I water cycle

That's about right. As you change tropic levels you only get about 10% of the energy actually converted to biomass.

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. 80% of water use in CA is for agriculture. Desal could never supply that kind of volume.

I've seen a lot of dumbshit vegans and vegetarians hold that up as a sign of superiority.

>You feed them grass
Bullshit.
Majority of grown plants (corn most commonly) is used as animal feed.

Confirmed retarded

Corn and soybean. Not coincidentally among the most heavily subsidized crops, mostly GMO, and therefore connected to Monsanto.

No one could cut corn and soy subsidies even if they wanted to. The ethanol producing states would bitch too much.

>smarter than the general population

How about when compared to a healthy omnivorous control?

Yes, California has a terrible drought. That's why their top 2 agricultural products are pot and wine.

t. Pain

>psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201005/why-vegetarians-are-more-intelligent-meat-eaters
> The Hypothesis would predict that more intelligent individuals are more likely to choose to become a vegetarian than less intelligent individuals.
So no, apparently "smarter people are more likely to be vegetarians". It's not the same.

makes sense, most people bashing vegan/vegetarians resort to
>muh tastes
>muh canines
>i didnt climb to the top of the food chain to eat grass
>hur dur how do you know a person is a vegan KEK THEYLL TELL YOU

Not that I care, people can eat what they want. Vegan/vegetarian is ethically (and in some cases nutritionally) superior though.

Neu5gc.

Really? You had to drag regional geopolitics into this?
Go back to .

Yes, we are the fattest country. We also have the largest non-poverty stricken population (either a population is large but poverty stricken or small and not poverty stricken). It makes complete sense that we'd have the most fat people, because we have the money and food to be fat, and have the most people to do it.
Nonetheless, this country still needs a change. It's absolute shit. Just don't think that everyone has to be a certain way in a set range of latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates.

Neu5gc.