Looking to get my first knife: wondering if I should go for a Chinese cleaver, western chef, or santoku style knife...

Chinese cleaver is a no brainer. look for a light or medium duty vegetable cleaver, not the heavier meat cleavers.
Winco makes a nice one, which I have.
www.amazon.com/WINCO-Chinese-Cleaver-Stainless-Handle/dp/B000UBE7JY

if you want a more trad look buy this one
amazon.com/Wok-Shop-Vegetable-Cleaver/dp/B00018U1J6

Go get a feel for some in a shop if you can, it's mostly personal preference. A flatter blade is arguably better if you'll be thinly slicing lots of vegetables, a western knife might be better if you want to mince herbs and mirepoix, but it'll be a tiny difference, none of them have something they're just "bad" at.

"Chinese cleavers" are just chef's knives that are a similar shape to Western cleavers, they're not actually cleavers. Chinese butchers use regular heavy cleavers to get through bone.

The larger flat of the blade makes it useful as a pestle in some instances. Like crushing garlic or making a paste.

French, but save up more money. On that budget, you're better off buying disposable chinese cleavers. Honestly not a bad option, but they're anything but versatile.

>suggests disposable knives on a $50-$75 budget
instead of victorinox, tojiro or sabatier

At least know what the fuck you're talking about before you post

Honestly, just get any plain old 8 or 10" chef's knife before getting anything different for your first knife.

If you're only willing to spend that much on a knife, I seriously recommend disposable chinese chef's knives. Unless you're willing to spend 200+, that's where I stand. Because you're probably poor, and spending 6 dollars a month on disposable is probably better value than a shitty 50 to 75 dollar knife that you will have to sharpen every 2 months or so for 8 to 15 bucks or more.

This is my jam. Rarely reach for any other knife.

This or a dexter russell

...

Get the Victorinox 8'' chef's.

Yes, Cook's Illustrated has made it a meme knife, but I went for the hype years ago and can't be happier with it. It's budget too.

I also have a Chef's Choice electric sharpener, so I can put the edge back on whenever. That's important.

Can anyone recommend a good knife bag? I just got promoted to the line, and all the kitchen knives and most of the other cook's knifes are fucking trash, so I wanna bring my own. Are they all pretty much the same?

I personally prefer these rather cheap ones. They are Kiwi brand ones from Thailand. I like that they aren't too ridged compared to western knifes.
My favorite one is the one on top.

THE HATCHET IS FAMILY

my 5 dollar good cook chef knife from the supermarket works great. no need to spend more. get one of those 5 dollar pull through sharpeners along with it and you'll be set.

the Victorinox chef knife is actually pretty fucking good

The Mercer Renaissance 8" served me for over a year when I was chefing in college. Only ever honed it, didn't feel the need to sharpen it. Retails between $36-$50

I prefer a Chinese style knife. Owned one for years(Dexter Russell) and love the thing. I have bought my best friends the same knife as gifts if for no other reason than when I am visiting and either cook or help prep I will have a knife I like.

It is all just preference though but there is little you can not do with just a Chinese style knife and a bird's beak paring knife.

The knives I mentioned will all last a lifetime and for a home cook will maybe need sharpening once a year. Which will cost maybe $5, as opposed to buying a new knife every time the old one gets dull and wasting money.

You yourself recommended a "french" knife and I recommended one of the most well known brands out there. Do you even know what you're talking about here?

>Kiwi brand
>Made in Thailand

They obviously have no fucking clue about anything.

French as in a french chef's knife, ya dongus. French, santoku, gyuto, chinese. He asked what style of knife, and I recommend French style chef's knife for a multipurpose kitchen implement, because that's my preference.

I am well aware of that, which is why I recommended a knife that fits either definition of "french" chef knife, for under $75. And yet you insisted one needs to spend a ridiculous amount of money that even a lot of professionals don't drop to have a good knife, and that instead OP should drop money on disposable garbage.

The bottom line here is that you shouldn't talk about something you obviously have no real experience with.

I disagree with you. Ain't that something?

And I think you're an idiot spreading misinformation! It's good that we can have this discussion.

Your opinion is valid, because it's your opinion, but I disagree with it.
The knife I posted is a phenomenal knife.
It's almost as good as my $200 MAC.
For $75.

people rather spend $200 plus on a french knife imported from their favorite euro shithole instead of $25-35 on a American made chink knife that will last a life time. Chinese style knives aren't a meme; they fucking work- and they work well.

Was about to get a Takeda chinese cleaver at the end of this week. I can afford it but just barely, talk me out of it Veeky Forums

was thinking of getting a santoku, do they actually have any advantages over a regular chef knife?

If you're a collector, go for it. I'll never be able to drop that much on a tool, but good on ya if you can.

Santoku knives are pic related. I think Wikipedaphile says they were designed for the home cook (female). I owned one for a while. It's nice. Easy to handle. Light. Not a lot of blade length (that's why it's light and easy to handle).
Great starter/intermediate knife for a home cook. I wouldn't bring one on the line, though, because the guys will make fun of you. Great utility knife. Kind of consolidates the amount of knives you need to perform tasks. Does that make sense? It's large enough to be your gyuto/chef knife, hankotsus/boning knife, nakiri in all.
I gave mine to a friend when I upgraded to a 240mm.

Thanks, that helps a lot, I am definitely not a professional chef or anything, just enjoy cooking and would like some good equipment for home.

Unless you are really and truly going to spend fifteen minutes every couple of days working that blade on an oiled carborundum stone, followed by careful honing on a diamond steel, I'd forgo the Germans.
Most of the professionals I know have for years been retiring their Wusthofs and replacing them with the lightweight, easy-to-sharpen and relatively inexpensive vanadium steel Global knives, a very good Japanese product which has — in addition to its many other fine qualities — the added attraction of looking really cool.

Santoku sounds right for you, then. They were made for people like you... like volkswagon et al.
Aussie, please...
NO ONE worth a shit uses Global knives.

Or mundial

How important is getting a decent honing steel? I got a cheap ass $5 one from the Asian market nearby and I'm not sure if I'm either fucking up my technique or if it's just crappy.

Get a strop instead.

A honing steel is a honing steel, ad nauseum.
It's most likely your fault.
The quick and to the point answer.

I end with a 6k grit on my stone and then hone with a ceramic honing "steel".
I'd be fine with the back of a ceramic cup for honing.
A decent honing steel is only as important as the last stone you sharpened your blade with.
If that's not important to you, then you're doing fine.

I'm fucking hammered.
Go to the knife forums dot com and chefknifes2go and gleen info.

This

I got one like 4 years ago on Veeky Forums recommendation
Still use it happily everyday

Hone is for honing, you want a stone for sharpening
get a lansky

What's the most fun knife to use? I want to enjoy chopping

That's a direct excerpt from kitchen confidential BTW

Cool, didn't know that was an option.
Okay, cool. I was just concerned I want causing incredible damage to my blade. I only have a Dexter Russel as of now to practice on but still. I'll pick up a 6k stone soon, I already have a 600/1000 as of now so I'm not in a rush. Thanks for the info!
I got that much, I was just making sure my cheap shit isn't destroying my blade

Personal preference
I like french knives over santokus, never tried cleavers

Does anyone have that Veeky Forums knives thread in a nutshell? Bascially goes
>muh Wustof
>muh Victorinox
>weeb who preaches santokus
>another claiming chinese cleavers are goat with video of chinese chefs using them to prep veggies
>another guy saying you dont need nice knives, just learn to sharpen and buy throwaways

>Richmond Attifex

Enjoy your complete absence of QC on the heat treat or any other aspect of knife production from your entirely outsourced phantom brand.

Honestly, anyone who isn't willing to learn how to sharpen should just stick to the cheapest, thinnest knife they can get from their local restaurant supply store.

No knife, no matter how expensive, will stay sharp in regular use without regular touching up and occasional full sharpenings.

Western style, minimum 10", go wusthof, Zwiling, victorinox ftw always and similar. Japanese shit is overrated and quality range of euro chef knife 80$ is around 200$ for japanese bcs overpriced piece of shit with small handle. If you want good japanese stuff shell out money, and if you are going to shell out money then just get some of zilion craft knives from local knife maker.

In short, if you are not japanese or a sushi chef buying japanese steel is just pure weaboo gearfagging and nothing else.

I'm willing to learn to sharpen, any recommendations on the best places to do so?

What's a good brand for high carbon steel? Is it hipster to like high carbon? I think it looks nicer, and I know it's a harder metal. I want a gyuto, but I'd go for french if I could find one without that bullshit heel.

And one more thing, about chinese cleavers. They make that fucking noise on the chopping board Which is fucking anoying as shit, nothing worse than working with 5 cooks and there is one faggot who wants to be a special little snowflake so he bought a fucking cleaver and sounds like a goddamn woodpecker on amphetamines.

>Looking to get my first knife
>wondering if I should go for a Chinese cleaver
I don't think you're ready for decisions of this magnitude, user.

What's your opinion of santoku style knifes?

Search for "A Tutorial on Burr Based Sharpening" on YouTube.

No steel is inherently "harder", that's not how steel works. Carbon steels can often be hardened to a

higher hardness than most stainless steels, and carbon steels are often easier to heat treat to a high hardness with a very fine grained microscopic structure well suited to kitchen use than most stainless steels, but this doesn't mean that you cannot get a high hardness and fine microstructure in a stainless steel. For example, AEB-L can be used to make knives that behave virtually exactly like carbon steel knives but are stainless.

In any case, the real questions you need to consider are:

1) Sharpen to a coarse finish and maintain by honing rod, or use waterstones for a fine polish, and touch up on the stone regularly?

2) Thin geometry or thick geometry? Tall or short? 8" or 10"?

3) Budget?

And based on those look at what knives might suit your needs.

Probably severe buyers remorse to the point where he's convinced himself $200 dollars on a knife was a good deal even though you can get good ones at one third the price.

I mean who the fuck suggests poor people to " buy disposable knives ".

So someone give me the real story on chinese cleavers. Are they good? are they bad? all the shit google gives me are reactionary popshit articles about how WOAH THEY'RE AN AMAZING SECRET FROM THE MYSTIC ORIENT!!
how does it handle? what are the pros and cons?

I use Chinese (as well as Western-style) knives often.

First off, let's make a distinction. When you say "chinese cleaver" there are two things that might be referring to. One is an actual meat cleaver. It's thick and heavy, for chopping bone-in meat, just like a western cleaver. I think every cook should own one of these because of how amazingly cheap they are. Drop $10 at an Asian market and you're set. If you do a lot of breaking down meat then I'd suggest the western style cleaver instead. They are more durable since they are generally full-tang construction, but they are a lot more expensive.

What I suspect you're talking about would best be called a "Chinese knife" rather than a cleaver. The blade is broad like a cleaver, but they are very thin. They are used for slicing soft foods. If you tried to use one for chopping up BBQ then you'd end up ruining the blade. Pros and cons? Certainly. In my opinion the biggest pro is the shape of the blade which makes it ideal for scooping food off your cutting board and transferring it elsewhere. The flat of the blade is great for processing garlic or ginger without any effort--just smack it with the side of the blade. You can also use the side to flatten out skins for wontons (assuming you make them from scratch).

Disadvantages? No real point on the blade so it's difficult to use for things like seeding peppers or boning out meat. The blade is also fairly short so it's not so useful for slicing a big roast or cutting large veggies.

I grab my Chinese knife if I'm working with a lot of small veggies or meat that I don't have to bone out. If I'm working with meat I have to bone out, or with larger veggies, then I use a Western style chef's knife.

...continued

Then there's a 3rd type, which isn't all that well known (in the West, anyway). This is a Chinese pork butcher's knife. I suppose you'd have to call these a "knife" rather than a cleaver because they do taper along the spine, but they are heavy.

The shape is interesting. The weight is not very far "forward" so they aren't as effective for chopping the heavy stuff as a proper cleaver. But, they do have that interesting point which makes them a lot more useful for meat butchery than a squared-off cleaver. They're pretty much a compromise between a cleaver and a chef's knife.

I happen to have two of these. One is a CCK, the other a Sugimoto. The CCK is quite heavy. It's my go-to when I have to process a hunting kill (deer, hog). The Sugimoto leans a bit more towards the "knife" rather than the "cleaver" and has a thinner blade. If I could only have one knife in the kitchen then that's what I'd use. But honestly, it is a bit heavy for sustained work.

>$200+ for a knife
literally why? so that it can last 10% longer than a $30 knife between sharpenings? what other utility could a $200 knife possibly have over a basic one?

1. I'm not sure. All I've ever done with kitchen knives is get them sharpened by others and hone them at home. I have nice wetstones for my machete and other knives though, and I know how to use them well.
2. Probably thin. I like, my bosses knife, which is a light, thin gyuto by shun.
3. Not sure yet. I work on minimum wage, but I barely spend any. I guess I'd be willing to spend like 150 at most (not counting shipping). More if it's really worth it.

I actually already have an old ~$100 (I think) zwilling hand me down, but I don't like the style of the heel, or the weight.

Better balance over the entire blade. Better steel stays sharper longer.

Don't forget angle of blade: 18 or 15.

I go fifteen with all mine.

I don't know about that. I have a dexter chinese cleaver that cost me about 20 bucks when I bought it 20 years ago. It holds and edge and sharpens as well as any knife I've had.

I worked 7 years in a conference center cooking/prepping buffet style meals and it was my favorite knife. I used it for most things. I would even clean whole salmon with it.

Of course it would also be a good idea to buy a 10" regular victorinox chefs knife, a pairing knife and probably a serated bread/fruit knife.

My Chinese cleaver has been used so much it is about 1 inch less wide than new, and I think I like that even more.

>not making your own

Damn you are so fucking mad over nothing its almost funny.

There are plenty of japanese made knives that are around the same price point as euro knives. Tojiro, Ikkaku Donryu and Yoshihiro are a few makers off the top of my head that offer blades at a similar price to an equivalent Wusthof. And I'd argue that handles are entirely up to the user. Some people have small hands. So small handles are good.

damp, rolled newspaper can work in a pinch. use it like a strop.

no shit? never heard that one before.

Victorinox or Mercer my friend. Everything else is either higher tier (unnecessary for starting/low volume cooking) or less of a value. Get a decent chefs knife and a decent paring knife and it's really all you probably need.

No. That will not work, it doesn't even actually work for stropping except in a very exceptional set of circumstances that turned into an old wives tale.

A honing steel works on Western style kitchen knives because they tend to blunt mainly from contacts with the cutting boards causing the apex to microscopically roll. As a result, a honing rod can be used to re-align the apex.

A strop without an abrasive compound applied to it can only really be effective at removing a microscopic burr left over from sharpening, leading to a perception of improved sharpness. Note that this only works if the burr is very small and very weak, and should not be expected to work even most of the time on a burr.

These rock. Knife of choice. Sharp as Sherlock.

For a couple weeks. I love them too though.

Thank you very much qt

i would recommend the >santoku
idk what you're cooking, but the santoku seems to be the most diverse, between heavy chopping and dicing.

Mine has stayed sharp the entire time I've owned it; approx six years.

Mine dull fast as hell. I prep and cook almost every day, though.

>Mine has stayed sharp the entire time I've owned it; approx six years.

You have literally never handled a sharp knife in your life if you believe that.

The Chinese knife shaped like a cleaver but not for hacking through bones is the ONE for me. If your cooking does not require advanced knife skills it'll do 90% of what you need. And it's cheap. And it's good for smashing and picking stuff up from the board when you turn it on its side. Perfect fucking knife for a home cook.

Working in a kitchen and getting moved to fish station next week. My current setup for fish is pretty basic. People who break down fish a lot: would it be preferable to get a sujihiki type knife, or a deba, or something else for fish butchery? The fish range a bit, from small/medium sized up to fuckhueg halibut/king salmon.

Better ergonomics
Better edge geometry- better steel can be sharpened to a finer edge
Better balance
Better edge retention, which is especially nice in a professional setting

Often really nice knives have other little benefits. For instance, a kuroichi or hammered finish on knives make them much harder for food to stick to.

I agree there's diminishing returns, same as with anything, but if you're working with your knife 80 hours a week the difference between 'feels pretty good' and 'feels great' is a huge thing.

>six years staying sharp
I'm assuming you sharpened and honed it properly throughout those six years, otherwise you have no idea what you're talking about

Maybe he only cooks once every two months or something. Or he only cuts boiled potatoes.

If you are working with a lot of fish, a deba and the longest Yanagiba you can afford will be ideal.

Sujihiki is better for all round slicing. For fish, the yanagi is peerless.

7 inch Gyuto.. Easy approachable, reasonable, and good knives to main. Keep it up on the whetstone, and you're golden.

I'm hoping you have good knife skills, though a dull knife is generally unsafe, a razor sharp knife in an idiots hands is bad. Most beginner's get cuts because of fucking up their hand position, and a stupidly sharp knife will do some deep damage under less delicate hands.

Kiwi is great price-performance ratio. You can get then for about $5 where I live (essentially Vietnamese town), they come shark and they're easy to sharpen up. I use a flat piece of slate and it works great.
They do lose their edge quickly though.

7 inch gyuto has a much smaller cutting edge though since it curves, unlike a santoku of the same size

I'd do 8 minimum.

under rated post for the first knife. Do it op.

>victorinox
>underrated

...

I found yanagis feel like they pull to one side. Is that something you just get used to?

Is it necessary to have a deba and a slicing knife? I'm a cook, so I'm not exactly rolling in cash.

I don't like them because they are often too short, also they don't have a point which can be frustrating. If you need a all purpose knife euro chef is the way to go.
One more tip, never buy a expensive paring knife, those small fuckers are easy to lose and quick to fuck up, just buy some cheap victorinox for 5 $ or similar.