Do you believe lyrics hold any literary value...

no
catcher in the rye tier
IJ tier

I like joanna newsom, but her lyrics are mostly chosen for phoenics or strings of imagery rather than being any cohesive thing
even songs that tell something like a story are all over the place

morrisey is okay, but occasionally referencing poets doesn't make it literature

I don't know what that means. The subject was artists that tell stories with their music, not who are the greatest songwriters

Decemberists - Crane Wife
lots of storytelling

This all the knowledge you need right here

> I like joanna newsom, but her lyrics are mostly chosen for phoenics or strings of imagery rather than being any cohesive thing
even songs that tell something like a story are all over the place

absolutely not true. Have you listened to Divers? Have One on Me? That isn't even the Case with Ys or Milk-Eyed Mender, but I specifically single out the two most recent ones because they are more aggressively cohesive and thematically driven. Divers, in particular, is possibly the most 'idea'-driven album I have ever heard in my life.

story telling =/= literary value, user. nor does an overabundance of purple prose, contrary to what many here think. 'literary merit' is related to the sophistication of intellectual/aesthetic ideas present in the work

>they think music needs lyrics to tell a story

LIterally everything posted so far is trash, unsurprisingly. If you want music with literary value, look into musical settings of great poems

most plebian response in this thread, even more retarded than the person who suggested the Decemberists.

- someone who thinks pop musicians can write for shit

youtube.com/watch?v=7HEq8UqrujM

Nah, I haven't listened to divers. Just Ys and Have One on Me.

We probably just have different ideas of what it means to be cohesive. Her music is consistent musically, but the lyrics just don't imply anything as a whole when I listen to them. I say they're comprised for phonetics and pieces of imagery because that's just how I see it.

I like singing her songs, but I've never liked her albums much so I'm pretty biased. It took me a long time not to hear her as a screeching forest animal in death throes. Modern recordings just really grate on my ears, it sounds so much shittier without the warm reverb of an open room.

youtube.com/watch?v=0va3F2PWBJc

>>
Have One on Me is about a lot of things, but it's broadly an investigation into the conventional role of a "woman" in the world, and in relationships. It's Joanna's personal exploration into her multidimensional self-identity, many songs taking cues from either history, her personal life, or various other works of art, often weaving them all together. Divers does the same but to an infinitely more complex degree, but it is about what it means to truly "love" in the most complete sense of the word. It's at the level of sophistication of a PhD dissertation on the subject.

also
> I say they're comprised for phonetics and pieces of imagery because that's just how I see it.

It seems like you're experiencing it passively rather than actively, which isn't really a reasonable way to judge anything's merit.

>It's at the level of sophistication of a PhD dissertation on the subject.
Funny how people who want to defend pop lyrics always use cringe-worthy comparisons like this

literally how do you define 'literary merit.'

why is it so impossible for you to fathom that an album by an objectively multifacetedly intelligent human adult is not as artistically meritorious as a novel by another comparably intelligent adult?

Pretty much what I said to start out with.

I don't listen to what lyrics say at all except in particular cases where the music invites me to. I can sing several Joanna Newsom songs verbatim, pronunciation and all, but if you asked me what any of them are about I probably couldn't tell you. It's just not relevant to my enjoyment. I get pretty much the same stimulus out of music in a language I can't speak as I do from music played in English. There are exceptions, but she isn't one of them.

I'm a one trick pony. I listen to music for music. In the same way, I skip all dialogue and cutscenes in videogames - it's just not what I care about when I'm after the sort of experience a videogame provides.

Tool
"Stinkfist"

Something has to change.
Undeniable dilemma.
Boredom's not a burden
Anyone should bear.

Constant over stimulation numbs me
but I would not want you
any other way.

It's not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I said
I don't want it.
I just need it.
To breathe, To feel, to know I'm alive.

Finger deep within the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
Relax, turn around and take my hand.

I can help you change
Tired moments into pleasure.
Say the word and we'll be
Well upon our way.

Blend and balance
Pain and comfort
Deep within you
Till you will not want me any other way.

It's not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I said
I don't want it.
I just need it.
To breathe, To feel, to know I'm alive.

Knuckle deep inside the borderline.
This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to.
Relax. Slip away.

Something kinda sad about
the way that things have come to be.
Desensitized to everything.
What became of subtlety?

How can it mean anything to me
If I really don't feel anything at all?

I'll keep digging
Till I feel something.

Elbow deep inside the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
Shoulder deep within the borderline.
Relax. Turn around and take my hand.

I'd say Kendrick Lamar GKMC and TPAB are prime examples of story telling and poetry in music.

Listen to the whole album of GKMC in order and you'll see what i mean (don't let others decide for you, including me, just listen and decide for yourself)

youtu.be/9PMqzN4mn4c

Clip related is a great example of being a teenager feeling in love and being love struck for the first time

The lyrics paint the picture of what the "author" is saying, they're young teenagers trying to figure out what's happening in their lives but things pull them apart, however they never forgot that feeling they felt with each other

In this case, the music compliments the lyrics and makes it feel more genuine

See, this is what I'm talking about. Sam Beam sounds so shitty on those electric albums.

youtube.com/watch?v=JW5dlUxiJtQ

Just watch this whole performance, really

youtube.com/watch?v=Sqc9G3LRFck&list=PL98C12062C59A0A5A

Same thing with Newsom, man.

youtube.com/watch?v=g9djWq0fP6s
youtube.com/watch?v=g9djWq0fP6s

Andrew Bird does the same bullshit. I don't know if it's the equipment or what.

youtube.com/watch?v=W3WoXkOH6WQ

If you're OP
Are you arguing about lyric quality telling stories or the cleanliness of recordings eliminating background noise?

If not OP, what's your point?

Nah, I'm not OP. Just ranting about the recordings, has nothing to do with the thread.

I just can't stand the sound of modern recording and production equipment. Too crisp, too sharp, too modulated. Those were just examples of artists who I actually like but can't stand to listen to on album recordings.

There's nothing that makes me smile more than warmth of reverb that actually comes from real sounds. Open sound stages, with a little fuzz around the edges. I even love the hiss of the tape. Production these days strips away all the good shit.

I know it's still possible, because every once in a while someone releases something like this youtube.com/watch?v=BE6YXLIV5JY

Alright I gave into 2 mins of your bait

Here's your (You)

The only thing I'm fishing for is a discussion, not sure what else you think I'm trying to steal out of you.

I was just continuing what I said earlier about how I didn't like Newsom's album recordings.

>lyrics hold any literary value

Baby I could build a castle - Taylor Swift

youtube.com/watch?v=MWtV4DACpVg

Lyrics

cupofwonder.com/apassion.html

>pieces of music that you find tell interesting stories

It can be seen that the question of the existence of narrative in music is neither obvious nor straightforward

Transmediation can refer to the process of "responding to cultural texts in a range of sign systems -- art, movement, sculpture, dance, music, and so on -- as well as in words."

Heartlines
youtu.be/jEYBm-KR-Bs

.. a heart-felt storytelling can create changes ...

>Heartlines

I wanna feel your heartlines - Broods

We live in a mediacentric society filled with many affective sign systems.

sorry OP but terminal redux can't be considered as "literary" when it has lyrical abortions like the below, from #10, Recharging The Void. Greentexted the particularly horrid lines:

>Illuminate what remains
>From a time when all sanctions were hallowed
And our freedoms sucked straight from our marrow
To bleed after refrain
>All we knew was the suffering
>Away, all of the shame and the sorrow
>Only hoping for endless tomorrows
>We look to cold, shimmering skies
>Feel the light passing by
There’s no light that reflects from our gallows
>Planets stricken to live in the shadows
>Of cold, shimmering skies
All we ask is our story be told
>To young, beckoning, yearning worlds
>Who are struggling to be as one
>We are the light from a dying sun
>In darkness we will remain

positive emotions, such as love and appreciation, in generating coherence both in the heart field and in social fields

when an individual is generating a coherent heart rhythm, synchronization between that person’s brain waves and another person’s heartbeat is more likely to occur

and i'm gonna second this post instead. insightful album without pretension

>tfw you fell for the Vampire Weekend has sophisticated lyrics meme
How do I get rid of this

Human beings have evolved to convey meaningful information through storytelling. It is this natural process of oration we harness to conduct deep exploratory insight

Any literary value is disintegrated by how fucking awful the vocals are.

Randy Newman
John Prine
Slick Rick

Randy Newman article:
dialmformusicology.com/2007/01/15/meeting_a_music/

spiderland by slint and the velvet underground s/t

Red House Painters - Down Colorful Hill

Joanna Newsom - Sawdust and Diamonds
youtube.com/watch?v=8vcOvPnl7wE

Leonard Cohen - youtube.com/watch?v=8TtdbXsIXSQ

God-tier

Lyrics are formally the same as poetry, so of course they're capable of being similar. "Value" can be found in anything though, it's all personal. For me, Sufjan Stevens, Elliott Smith, Brand New, La Dispute, and many others have similar emotional effects on me to poetry, but everyone's choices will vary (and everyone will deny that their choices are merely personal, but hey, this board would be pretty dead if they didn't).

This thread is example of why Veeky Forums is so terrible lately.

Children.

>tfw those children will outlive you.

Beautiful post number, ugly post. I sincerely hope, user, that someday you will shed your insecurities and live without anger and hate.

>Joanna Newsom is brilliant. David Tibet is brilliant
lmao no
Nice pretense.

hahahaha if you dont like my literal abortions you are insecure hahaha xdddddd

>tfw he also made a song about his cat

youtube.com/watch?v=7T_KKiQiolk

Don't you find it ironic that all these artists are trying to take you to another place, and all you want to do is feel like your sitting next to them in that drab recording room?

King Missile makes an excellent case for it; even if it is closer to regular poetry than lyrics.
youtu.be/4_YaSAZqcjA
I love these guys.

That is not at all what I said, your limited view of the world has caused you to misconstrue me. There are plenty of things I dislike, but I choose not to insult them and put down those who do like them, because if I did that I would be disgusted with myself. From your response it is clear that you are not a child, but an adolescent. You've lost innocence, but not yet gained wisdom and character. You'll change soon enough though, don't worry.

This thread is a meme but Michael Gira writes some great lyrics.

>"this thread is a meme"
>Michael Gira writes some great lyrics
:^)

so you like all the pussy bands huh?
how about you listen to some real man's music?
youtube.com/watch?v=oFt56Qlt52M

...

I WON'T STOP TIL THIS HOUSE IS CLEANER

Not even trying to meme you, I was into that genre in like 8th grade. No hate for it, I just find it a bit dull and repetitive.

This is fucking god-tier. The story is genuinely compelling, the lyrics are excellent, and it follows a consistent metre throughout its entire 60 minutes. With each listen I find it more and more impressive.

Forgot my pic lol

No, they hold musical value.

Jesus fuck.

Nick Cave

/thread

Joy Division is near literature.

It's a bit cliche at this point, but the wall is an excellent example of a conceptual album. It pretty much tells the story of a man's descent into absolute isolation, madness, drug abuse, and his eventual realization that all the walls and strength he'd built himself around, all the stoicism introspection is worthless. The entire album is honestly excellent. It was also extremely innovative at the time for music to carry that much meaning.
Outside of that Starfucker is kind of cool. Though they mostly deal in electronic sound over soft lyrics, their songs use heavy sampling of Alan Watts and other philosophical speeches and tend to focus on aspects of human nature. The two that I enjoy are their self titled album and Reptilians. The former about unrequited love and the latter about death and our willingness to see and except it. Death as a Fetish is one that held a lot of strength to me with minimal lyrics. I might be enjoying more so simply because Alan Watts, who I find to be extremely interesting if not a bit wacky.

>the residents
people actually listen to these guys? heh

Alchemy Sounded Good at the Time
Alesana
Lyrics
this the oldest story in the book... he desires the one thing he cannot have...
my darling queen, I lay myself at your feet
and I shall stay the hands of fate
wind cries out, heavens boil above voicing discontent to my sins
I have found the way to trick the ferryman
I have deceived the ancient Gods
cold flesh lends to me its secrets...
(each day brings me closer to you...)
...for a price too high
(...my tragic victory)
I shudder at what I have done
darling queen I lay at your feet...
chills take me as she wakes, throat gasps tainted breath
I've reclaimed you my stolen bride
can your soul forgive my crimes of passion?
I would not close the casket; I'm so consumed by your pain
faint screams echo through the night...

Oh the time will come up
When the winds will stop
And the breeze will cease to be breathin'
Like the stillness in the wind
'Fore the hurricane begins
The hours when the ship comes ind.

And the seas will split
And the ship will hit
And the sands on the shoreline will be shaking
Then the tide will sound
And the waves will pound
And the morning will be breaking.

Oh the fishes will laugh
As they swim out of the path
And the seagulls they'll be smiling
And the rocks on the sand
Will proudly stand
The hour that the ship comes in.

And the words that are used
For to get the ship confused
Will not be understood as they're spoken
For the chains of the sea
Will have busted in the night
And will be buried at the bottom of the ocean.

A song will lift
As the mainsail shifts
And the boat drifts on to the shoreline
And the sun will respect
Every face on the deck
The hour that the ship comes in.

Then the sands will roll
Out a carpet of gold
For your weary toes to be a-touchin'
And the ship's wise men
Will remind you once again
That the whole wide world is watchin'.

Oh the foes will rise
With the sleep in their eyes
And they'll jerk from their beds and think they're dreamin'
But they'll pinch themselves and squeal
And know that it's for real
The hour that the ship comes in.

Then they'll raise their hands
Sayin' we'll meet all your demands
But we'll shout from the bow your days are numbered
And like Pharaoh's tribe
They'll be drownded in the tide
And like Goliath, they'll be conquered.

A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers' blood
A finger fired the trigger to his name
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed
He's only a pawn in their game.

A South politician preaches to the poor white man
"You got more than blacks, don't complain
You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

From the powerty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
And the hoof beats pound in his brain
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught
They lowered him down as a king
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He'll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game.

Oh all the money that in my whole life I did spend
Be it mine right or wrongfully
I let it slip gladly to my friends
To tie up the time most forcefully
But the bottles are done
We've killed each one
And the table's full and overflowed
And the corner sign
Says it's closing time
So I'll bid farewell and be down the road.

Oh every girl that ever I've touched
I did not do it harmfully
And every girl that even I've hurt
I did not do it knowingly
But to remain as friends we need the time
to make amends and stay behind
And since my feet are now fast
And point away from the past
I'll bid farewell and be down the line.

Oh every foe that ever I faced
The cause was there before we came
And every cause that ever I fought
I fought it full without regret or shame
But the dark does die
As the curtain is drawn and somebody's eyes
Must meet the dawn
And if I see the day
I'd only have to stay
So I'll bid farewell in the night and be gone.

Oh every thought that's strung a knot in my mind
I might go insane if it couldn't be sprung
But it's not to stand naked under unknowing eyes
It's for myself and my friends my stories I sung
But the time ain't tall
Yet on time you depend and no word is possessed
By no special friend
And though the line is cut
It ain't quite the end
I'll just bid farewell till we meet again.

Oh a false clock tries to tick out my time
To disgrace, distract, and bother me
And the dirt of gossip blows into my face
And the dust of rumors covers me
But if the arrow is straight
And the point is slick
It can pierce through dust no matter how thick
So I'll make my stand
And remain as I am
And bid farewell and not give a damn.

They're literal musical geniuses

Bring the ruckus desu senpai

Not at all, it's what makes music such a polarizing topic.

For me (and a lot of people, I think), music has to pass several checks before it really hits the brain.

First, it has to be pleasant to listen to.
Then, it has to create some kind of sympathetic physical response (singing along, humming, tapping, feeling the groove, catchy, punchy, etc.)
It's only after those first two checks that you can start thinking about what they're going for, how or why it's good, and what value it has to you.

That's why I don't like most modern music, it doesn't even make it past the first check.

It's why people dismiss so many good songs and artists out of hand; music is the only medium for which "I just don't like it," is a legitimate reaction.

Just to be clear, though, it's not about feeling like I'm sitting next to the musicians. It's about the shape and texture of the sounds, which has a lot to do with the post production.

Things like

youtube.com/watch?v=wlPtmws131o
youtube.com/watch?v=Qk2PTHX3DRI

Don't bother me, but the reality is - I would enjoy them more if they were recorded or mixed in a different way. It's purely physical. For example, almost everyone gets tingles when they hear voices harmonizing in large halls.

youtube.com/watch?v=OAEmpdSHC10
youtube.com/watch?v=MI6e4Q11NeM

If I go into mu to talk about score sheet music I would be directed here. Why the fuck are you coming into lit to talk about lyrics?

check any mountain goats song
youtube.com/watch?v=YArM7I7eb-s

wtf Terminal Redux isn't black metal at all.

>youtube.com/watch?v=OAEmpdSHC10

holy shit

Song: The Definition of Not Leaving

“***A Definition Not Found In The Dictionary*** Not leaving: an act of trust and love, often deciphered by children.”

I wish I just stood and let the sun creep through me

Instead of my attempts to build slingshots, spools and secants to bring in the sky

Inventions out of sticks and stones

A crown dusted off from beneath the bones

A white liar, protector of our heart and homes

Stay, don't go. I'll eat you up I love you so.

Hole has some pretty good stuff

I spent two years in their hometown, everyone is super into them.

well duh, all literature holds literary value

I'll get shit on this because of fucking John Green ruining them, but the Mountain Goats lyrics have a ton of literary merit.