Hi c/lit/'s
I'm really interested in politics of late.
The debates you see a lot on youtube with Sam Harris, Milo Yiannopolous and all those guys surrounding Islam and US politics.
Thing is I want to delve deeper than debates on YouTube, I actually feel if this is something I'm interested in I should start reading about these topics.
So where do I start? Has anyone got any recommendations?
Only book I remember enjoying was 1984.
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Start with the greeks, in this case Plato and Aristotle.
Read the Quran in Arabic.
Why
Just watch Zeitgeist
Because otherwise you won't understand shit about politics, and will merely join the chorus of ignorant people crying their emotionally driven opinions out loud, that the modern "political discussion" consists of.
Can you recommend any books by them in particular, please?
All of these are unironically good answers, even though I suspect some irony behind the authors. Plato will give you a good basis on politics, for example regime change is described well in the Republic (very important when comparing modern Egypt w/ modern Syria, or the first Muslim state and 4 Rashidun caliphates transition to the Ummayads and Abbasids as explained in Farabi's commentary on Plato). Aristotle will give a better answer than Plato on establishing an ideal state because his polity (mix between aristocracy and democracy) is more realistic than Plato's answer and serves as the basis for the American government in many ways. Learning Arabic will first surprise you for its internal structure, then getting a solid basis in Arabic poetry will be both edifying and instructive, illuminating the culturral mileu that the Quran appeared in. The Quran is obviously important for historical, and religious reasons and you can't completely appreciate it's style without comparing and contrasting it to the highly developed Arabic poetry. Obviously afterwards, you'll have to read the Asbab al-nuzul literature describing when certain Quranic verses were revealed and why. Then comparing different interpretations (tafsir or Quranic exegesis) will illuminate the differences between not only orthodox schools of thought (Shafi vs Hanafi, Ashari vs Athari vs Maturidi), but also heretical sects like the Mutazilite, the Rafidi/Bataniya (early day Shiism), the Khawarij (this group obviously tying into the modern day extremist movement and indeed any extremist Islamic movement), and others. Zeitgeist is an okay green pill movie but will be very beneficial in that it isn't Sam Harris or Milo. Milo is okay if only for the bants but when it comes to Sam Harris, there have been way better spokespeople and academics of the atheist persuasion.
>I want to spook myself out
Republic and Politics respectively. You can read whatever politically-themed works they have though.
I actually enjoyed this audiobook
>end of history man
The book is actually a huge apology for that, and includes a denunciation of neo-conservatism. This work looks at degenerative structures withing existing political structures.
>learning arabic
If Milo wasn't an idiot, he'd recommend you
Plato, Laws, Symposium, Trial and Death dialogues, Republic and Phaedo.
Aristotle, Categories, Ethics, Metaphysics, Politics.
St. Augustine's Political writings (the rest is a bit too theological for what you want)
Aquinas, Political Writings
Edward Feser on Hayek, Aquinas, Locke
Hilaire Belloc, The Jews, Servile State, Europe and Faith, The French Revolution
Chesterton, Heretics, Everlasting Man and Orthodoxy
After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre and everything else you can find by him.
You don't know the joys of Arabic poetry or the inner beauties of the Arabic language. Really it is so clean and shapely and nice. Practically all of its words are of Arabic and not foreign origin and it's grammar was largely shaped by poetry making it quite expressive. Then when Islam started, the Muslims pretty much froze Arabic as it was in that moment (ie a perfect language) and used it as their academic and scholarly language. Really Arabic is worth learning if you are going to learn more than three languages and especially if you have any interest in Semitic languages literature and culture.
Who cares about it, honestly?
It's autistic to learn it.
I guess you're right, never thought about it that way. Thanks!
Why preface your comment with "you don't know the joys"?
top kek
Hmm. I dunno, I started writing something else out but kind of lost interest in you people trying to trip me up. I mean it is a cop out but no one cares anyway.
ehhhh
Why did op have picture of pepe at the bonfire? How is that checkmate?
Well I guess that isn't what is checkmate.
Machiavelli's Ruler is a good read.
The god tier political reading list
Plato: The Republic, Crito, Apology, Gorgias, Phaedo, Protagoras, Theaetetus, Critias, Sophist, Statesman, Philebus.
Aristotle: Politics, Nicomachean Ethics, Rhetoric, Organon
Machiavelli: Livyan Discourses, The Prince
Hobbes: Leviathan
Locke: Treatises on Government
Smith: The Wealth of Nations
Marx: Das Kapital
Descending order. The order in which you read Plato's dialogues is irrelevant imo. Notice how it's quite backloaded since the Greeks basically had this shit on lock since 200 BC. Plato's description of democracy is exactly what's happening in the USA today.
Watch the news.
OP, you like Milo amdSam Harris, we bothknow you aren'tgoing to actually read and understand this shit
Let yourself mature out of your teens and grow out pf your child-basing-beliefs-off-youtube phase
Don't listen to him.
Or maybe you should listen to this person. FUCK. DON'T LISTEN TO ME.
Uh oh we got a triggering here
It's a trap!
Not him but, how difficult is Arabic to learn? When I was in middle school we had Arabic lessons but unfortunately I was too lazy and careless back then to actually pay attention.
Sounds like a mature response fellow twenty year old
*tips*
If you're interested in US foreign policy, read Chomsky
>tfw no milo bf
>loud breitbart rightwing shit
three layers of disgusting
>different opinions
Triggering leftists since 1789. Honestly I can understand why the qt fag jew becoming a race and class traitor would be upsetting.
FRANCIS FUCKYOUYAMA
I am 3/4 of the way through that, great read so far
Well he still pretty much says that liberal democracy is the best system, just that it can decay, countries can fall down the ladder of political maturity etc
I wouldn't bother with Marx or Smith.
The Worldly philosophers will cover them both and other economic thinkers.
>the Khawarij (this group obviously tying into the modern day extremist movement and indeed any extremist Islamic movement)
nice meme
>comment
>anti-Milo
>fedora
You realize fedoras are libertarian alt righters, right?
The best political discussion happens when you don't know what you're talking about. Trust me on this
>Everyone who disagrees with me is a leftist
The Mantra of the Right wing version of a tumblrfag.
Communist manifesto
He's right you triggered nonce.
Milo is a silver-tongued demagogue who is dying to ride the waves of popularity that come with the cult of personality. He literally ramps up his vaudevillian affectations so it's easier for people to meme about him. Get a clue.
man you got it al wrong, where did you get this?
Ellen Meiksins Wood's 'Citizens to Lords' and 'Liberty and Property' are good works concerning the social history of political thought.
Quentin Skinner's work also, The Foundations of Modern Political Thought.
>I'm really interested in politics of late.
> Sam Harris, Milo Yiannopolous and all those guys surrounding Islam and US politics
>I'm really interested in politics of late.
No you're not
You have to understand that if you're not with them then you are against them because they only see in black and white. If you do not believe in their rhetoric and ideology then you believe in the exact inverse.
You can see it all the time in politics and the reaction of people following each candidate. You're not for Trump? Enjoy Killary! You're against Clinton? Enjoy Drumpf!!!
It's a circus of retardation and I think it is made to simply distract people and get their dander up even though the face and words of whoever is president doesn't matter all that much. Just a figurehead with little actual power, which is in the senate, governors, and congress. But oh no I support Trump/Hillary! Maga! Change!
>I wouldn't bother with Marx or Smith.
>mfw
The manifesto is just polemic, not at all great for approaching the theory. Better would be Engels' Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.
You should start watching Question Time. Its British, and its an excellent political debate show because it lets people of wildly different ideological backgrounds make their case on an issue without a loudmouth "moderator" shouting them down. Also because it gives normal, common people to stand up and voice the issues that are important to them.
An example of an especially amusing pundit on the show:
youtube.com