How much time we need to go back in time to find a human much different, in evolutional terms, from us?
What I mean is, for example did people from 2000 BC have much small intellectual capabilities than modern humans? If a somehow transported infant from 4 thousands years ago, could we raise in on same level as current human?
Or are we pretty much the same?
Sorry for English, non native speaker here
(Random picture as I'm posting from phone)
Non archaic humans popped up about 10,000 years ago. Prior to that they were anatomically similar but quite inferior in terms of intelligence.
>did people from 2000 BC have much small intellectual capabilities than modern humans?
No
200,000 years at least
You can find them today Aboriginal Australians.
go to /pol/ , faggot
Don't you mean Veeky Forums Australian posters?
Humans are basically the same since 80,000 years. Maybe small(!) variations in different races over the 10000s of years.
So yes if you raised an infant from even 10000 BC you couldn't see a difference in achievement compared to contemporaries.
>quite inferior in terms of intelligence
And how exactly have you measured this?
He didn't he just thought the end of the ice age magically increased human intelligence by a lot. Whereas human intelligence might have even gone down a little bit since then (srs, but just a hypothesis).
OP here, thanks for answers guys
what made you be interested in this question?
Read an article about Arabic matehamtican from 1.7k BC who was an "inventor" of algorithm. Started wondering what would that guy create if he guy lived in our times. And 3k years is a lot, we made a huge leap from clay tablets.
Will watch it later, but not sure about
>IQ
meme
I wonder how many of those historical "inventor of x" guys really were the first to do something, and how many were just the first to write it down...
does it matter? those guys are long dead anyway. and preserving the knowledge for future generations is probably the more important thing
Why is it one or the other? I guess people that dedicated their lives to increasing our sum of knowledge will do what is necessary. They will either solve the problems themselves, or if someone already solved it, they will write it down so to knowledge doesn't get lost. It's never so clear cut.
Julian Jaynes has written a book on his hypothesis that consciousness is relatively new in humans, placing its emergence somewhere around 1000 BC (if I recall correctly) and attributing it not to culture, but to some change in the human brain.
Though his hypothesis is not entirely credible, it's at the very least an interesting thought experiment, and he does bring up good points.
garbage. just weird, he's an respected psychologist and people are actually at least taking his wort serious
I wholeheartedly disagree with this hypothesis for numerous reason. The change in the brain can't just suddenly happen over night at x date. Also, looking back through history at for example the cave painings, and other 'arts and crafts' projects, that date back to 40000BCE. I would argue that these paintings show a rise in self-awareness. They just didn't paint random objects. They painted themselves as they saw themselves - going out and hunting. They would then mark these painting with the their handprints. This is all amazing isn't it IMO? When we look at these paining we are looking back to the first time our ancestors started wondering about the world around us. When they first started questioning it and our place in it.
>paining
Why can't I write paintings ffs....
Well, if he were alive today and a mathematician he would do research in an obscure special field, which most people don't even know it exists. You would never have heard about him, there are just too many mathematicians today.
I have some doubts about the year 1.7k BC ... that is the time of Babylon.
Do you mean al-Khwarizmi, who invented the word algorithm?
I was wondering the same thing. I think he meant al-Khwarizmi. He was alive about 1.7k years ago. Around 6th or 7th century IIRC.
2000 BC people were essentially the same as they were now. There was variation, of course, just as there is now, and it wasn't all the same (population migration and such), but nothing existed outside of the human norm (that is, ranging from Australian Aboriginals to Han Chinese).
Humans attained our "modern" form about 70,000 years ago, intellectually. We think that's when semi-complex language arose.
He didn't say anything incorrect.
Physically, Aboriginals are the most archaic human population, displaying a far more robust assemblage of features then the rest of modern humanity. They're modern humans, but the most archaic of the lot, with an average IQ of 60.
But there were also a few cousin-species walking around in 70000 BC. Neanderthals, Homo floresiensis,... Weird times
Sure, they're all imbeciles...can barely talk..those animals
politically >incorrect
>Humans are basically the same since 80,000 years
Not even close as the races you see today didnt exist in 80,000 B.C.
Aboriginals are obviously primitive devolved humans because they have very archaic looking craniums and have made any civilization in the 50,000 years they been on the continent of Australia.
Op here, yeah, that guy
Thats another thing that always amazed me about human race - always struggling to pass the knowledge to "future generations". Maybe I'm nihilistic or pragmatic, but it had always been amazing. That need to share knowledge, even though it does not bring us any benefit during our lifetime.
I know, I know, evolution, preserving genes and our children, but still. Amazing.
Anyways, OP, your question is kinda of a loaded question. It assumes that if that guy was born today he would act the same way, or even be interested in math. There is a good question that asks 'Are great men born or made?'. Possibly it's a combination of both, we don't know. Would Napoleon really rise up to be the way he was without the political turmoil that was going on? Would Martin Luther King Jr. really do what he did it it wasn't for the crap that was going on during his time? Would Hitler really start WW2 if it wasn't for that Jewish kid bullying him on the playground when he was little?
All races today are basically the same, you genius.
>the same
Then why dont they look the exact same? Explain how races even have genetic distances from eachother means they are the same. You are an idiot just shut up.
STFU troll on pol
It explains why IQ is a meme in the process
goddamnit you're too fucking stupid to even argue with. no two people are exactly the same, but this thread is about
>human much different, in evolutional terms, from us?
>I know, I know, evolution, preserving genes and our children, but still. Amazing.
There is this great interview with a great, and one of the most famous physicists of the 20th century, Richard P. Feynman. In it he said something that has really stuck with me ever since.
He says how a friend of his, who is an artist, doesn't understand physicists. He says how physicists take all these things apart, to understand how they work, and never quite appreciate the beauty of a flower, for example.
Richard says how he doesn't quite agree with that attitude. He can appreciated the beauty of a flower(and he does since he also draws).
He can see how beautiful it is, yet at the same time, he knows other things. He knows that if the flowers evolved color to attract insects(insects then pollinate other flowers), that means the insects see color. The can understand the inner-workings of the flower, the cell divison, etc.
That in no way reduces the beauty of the flower. It only adds to it.
Anyways, I totally agree that it's amazing. Knowing how it all works, and happens only adds and improves the beauty of it.
Yes but if all races are the same then why do obvious differences like skin coloration even exist user? You cant you are just another egalatirian lunatic who hates logic.
I am no troll Abos are clearly not on the same mental level as us, I dont give a fuck if they are the same species as us they are definately a different subspecies compared to us white people big time.
youtube.com
I found that part of the vid. It's much better when he explains it.
OK, he was a Persian mathematician, astronomer living in Baghdad 800 AD. His works got translated into latin in 1200 AD basically started european development in mathematics.
>I am no troll Abos are clearly not on the same mental level as us, I dont give a fuck if they are the same species as us they are definately a different subspecies compared to us white people big time.
>subspecies
>us white people
>there's a race called "white people"
and cry about we didn't accept your awesome genetic theories, crank.
If all white people are the same, why are some fat as fuck and others are skinny? some are 5' some 7'. Some are dumb others intelligent. The variation in the races are clearly much bigger than the differences between the races.
bodily features like skin colour, facial bone structure don't make them much different in evolutionary terms. It just looks a bit different.
I think you are a troll
White people means all pale skinned people originating from the Anatolia region 40,000 years ago that migrated into Northern Asia and Europe user. Race is no social construct user I mean look at a Swedish dude and an Arab and you will notice their facial structure is different you stupid fuck. If humans are a species than races are subspecies since they are divisions of humanity imbecile.
>facial bone structure don't make them much different in evolutionary terms
>bone structure makes no difference in evolutionary terms
Yh sure user thats why a chimp is the exact same as you I mean sure its skull is weird but hey bone structure dont mean anything in evolution user you stupid fuck.
>If all white people are the same, why are some fat as fuck and others are skinny?
Why are chimps fat and sometimes skinny?
posting here
Never said that race is a social construct. I agree the different races can be called sub species.
There are a few criteria, by which you can distinguish the races: different skin color, slight differences in bone structure..
Apart from that, in the things that matter, all humans are essentially the same and variation between races is smaller than in a given races in terms that matter for live like physiology, psychology etc..
The chimp is different from humans in hundreds of ways, but you seem to have a very warped view of looking at things. It also is hairy af.
OP here,
great, my thread turned into a /pol/ fight about race differences. get out of here or make own thread.
Anyway,
Kind of amazing how little (or large) progress we made over 70k years. For about 69k years we were just founding basis for our current civilization. Just striving to survive until next die for most of that period.
Those paintings looks better than anything I've ever drawn. Damn ancestors.
So what you basically saying is that Ancient Einstein could figure out the same things just be imagining as 19th century Einstein. (of course 19th one had access to all the knowledge of previous invetors and physicists)
Yeah, I know all of that. That's why I kind of believe in predistination/lack of free will. From the very moment we are born we are programmed by parents, society, environment to behave in a specific manner. Would Napoleon be leading a raise of our cavemen ancestors against other tribes in France-territory? Maybe. After all we already established they had similar cognitive and intellectual capabilities as us.
Yeah, I really like Feynman. Such an energetic guys, watched plenty of videos of his lectures and read first of his books. Slighlty too much math involved for me, as the last time I had physics classes was about 8 years ago. I enjoyed his train of thought though.
Dang, than I fucked up. Or the article fucked up. 400 years wasted. Again. After Burnign of Alexandria and then Dark Ages.
We could achieve so much more right now if it were not for hatred.
Kind of makes me go pacifist, if the war did not bring us all that outstanding civil technology.
>Kind of makes me go pacifist, if the war did not bring us all that outstanding civil technology.
There is no real reason to to fight for pacifism. Imagine there are almost no wars. Just think how much things would improve if we invested most of the money that goes into military to actual scientific research.
You are talked about small villages, dude, theres been a huge cities more modern than ours... For example cartago was build on a skin of one bull.