When Joyce and drinking buddy Ernest Hemingway faced a potential brawl...

Bodied

>Finnegan’s Wake
kek opinion discarded

Hemingway was such a brute. Joyce is so classy and gentle. Now I know why Joyce is taught in classrooms while Hemingway is forgotten.

>the first “stream of consciousness” writer
he himself says he got his 'interior monologue' thing from some french writer
> the ones I read anyway
so you haven't read dubliners

Nobody thinks he's the first stream of consciousness writer. That sort of thing dates back to the 19th C, pseud. Joyce just did a lot of it, and very well, and incorporated it into a super successful text.

Catch up.

>is the first “stream of consciousness” writer
Wrong, symbolists and decadents were already doing it and Joyce himself says so.

>He called it “Ulysses” because in his opinion his story is also a great epic
Wrong, it's called Ulysses because events on his book are directly connected from the Odyssey. Also, I don't know if he said this, but it aligns more with modernism to say everyday life is an epic in itself than anything else.

>That’s it. That literary trick is his “great” contribution to literature.
No, his great contribution to literature, to pick one, is showing that presentation and message are inseparable

> His characters are forgettable and one dimensional.
Now you're just lying and showing you never read even Dubliners.

>Les Mis
literally genre fiction

The rest of your post is just opinions

I don’t understand why you think the Iliad is a particularly great work. It was more interesting than most other works from the same approximate time period, and that’s about all I can say about it. The culture it belonged to is dead, dust. Its values and its reference points no longer resonate with the world we live in.

You read Araby and like, the first two pages of Ulysses. It’s better practice to develop opinions on stuff you know about. Like, everything you just said could only be said by someone who had no idea what they’re talking about. It actually made me laugh kind of. Are you aware of how much time, diligence and study he put into his work? uuuugh nevermind, i don’t even really care.

Why is everyone falling for that obvious bait???

hah gotcha

srsly, this has the potential for a really good yaoi fan-fic

There are no books from the same approximate time period in the West, it's not even a book, it's an oral poem. The culture it belonged to is very much alive inasmuch as it has evolved into modern Western culture.

I'm fairly certain Joyce was very upfront about trying to create Ireland's national epic with Ulysses, like Homer, Virgil, Dante, etc. did for their respective nations. I think it would be improbable if he just happened to structure his intended epic on arguably to originator of the epic tradition by pure happenstance given the aforementioned context.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

idiot

KKKKKKKKKKK!

fopdoodle

>Veeky Forums autists fall for literally the easiest bait: The thread

The structure is very much intended, no doubt.

I still have some doubts about Ulysses being an Irish national epic, considering how alienated Joyce felt from Ireland, his fanboyism over Ibsen and him saying that "I always write about Dublin, because if I can get to the heart of Dublin I can get to the heart of all the cities of the world. In the particular is contained the universal".

But then again, I have some very rigid notions about modernism and I've always felt Joyce sort of walks around them, using whatever he feels like and dropping the rest (and this is a compliment, before anyone goes full autist on me. Joyce was too much of a genius, if there ever was one, to need such constraints)

i got broads in atlanta (huh)
twisting dope lean and fanta (huh)
credit cards and the scammers (huh)
hitting the licks in the bando (huh)
legacies, phantom
legacies look like a panda

>*teleports behind you*
>Psh, DEAL WITH HIM HEMINGWAY

I thought Hunger was considered the first SOC novel? That's what I hearded anyhu?

>his great contribution to literature is showing that presentation and message are inseparable
Can you tell me what you mean by this?

The Hunger Games was the first.

Ulysses is pretty much chapter after chapter (and well, paragraph after paragraph in Oxen, roughly) of this.

Being really blunt with you here because I haveo ther shit to do, famalam, but Joyce shows that the way you aprehend a (theoretically) everyday situation is contingent to how it is presented.

If we're talking only plot, Ulysses is about two dudes: one of them is a fat jewish cuck who has to buy some shit and go to a funeral, the other is well, Veeky Forums incarnated, dropping spaghetti and being a bohemian asshole all over town. And yet, it's one of the most beautiful and humane books I've ever read.

If you want some texts that explain what I tried to say any better, I recommend you McLuhan and Eco, both men's work relied heavily on Ulysses, and are very elucidating, both for the book and how we view art and mass communication.

A few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. It had begun to snow again. He watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. The time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. Yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. It was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. It was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.

real talk
this is well summarized

>implying apostrophe

black X6* phantom
white X6* look like a panda

Only good post in this thread tbqh

>Hemingway has said of Joyce, 'Once in one of those casual conversations you have when you're drinking, Joyce said to me he was afraid his writing was too suburban and that maybe he should get around a bit and see the world. He was afraid of some things- lightning and things, but a wonderful man. he was under great discipline- his wife, his work, and his bad eyes. His wife was there and she said, yes, his work was too suburban- "Jim could do with a spot of that lion-hunting." We would go out to drink and Joyce would fall into a fight. He couldn't even see the man so he'd say: "Deal with him, Hemingway! Deal with him!"'
Ellmann's biography, p. 708 in my copy, which sources it to this article content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,27803-5,00.html

This is actually delightful. You can feel the affection Hemingway had for Joyce. They seem to have genuinely been great friends.

As I recall, Hemingway was one of the first few people to realize how brilliant Ulysses was, also.

Joyway slash when?

I'll include this too
>The conversation moved on to Hemingway, and Joyce said, 'We were with him just before he went to Africa. He promised us a living lion. Fortunately we escaped that. But we would like to have the book he has written. [For Whom The Bell Tolls maybe?] He's a good writer, Hemingway. He writes as he is. We like him. He's a big, powerful peasant, as strong as a buffalo. A sportsman. And ready to live the life he writes about. He would never have written it if his body had not allowed him to live it. But giants of his sort are truly modest; there is much more behind Hemingway's form than people know.'

Actually this was 1936 so he was likely referencing Green Hills of Africa.

Well memed my friend.

Ireland has a national epic, Cattle Raid of Cooley.

Joyce's Dublin was a different creature to the rest of ireland at that time

did Jimmy let ol' Ernie fart in his face

I think the dude is thinking of Tolkien and Beowulf desu.

What?

Wait, isn't it Chuchulainn?

t. newbie eireaboo