Behold: the man who utterly ruined Bitcoin in order to save hard drive space and to promote his fantasy Rube Goldberg...

lol of course not, its faggot neckbeard core cucks running "muh full node to secure the network" when in reality, non-mining nodes HARM the network and do not help in ANY way

miners are full nodes
nodes that dont mine dont do shit and degrade the network

the absolute state of corecucks

>Saving hard drive space

It's bandwidth that's the bottleneck in question, not hard drive space.

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>muh trust in a 3rd party

So hwhat? Non mining nodes don't matter the network operates fine with just a few.

Normal users shouldn't be using nodes, they should use SPV as was the original scaling plan. But the "muh raspi node" faction won out, so now we are in this shitshow.

funny, when the mempool is high like usual in BTC you can't run a node on a raspberry pi, but you can run Bitcoin Cash node just fine!

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Bitcoin developers have been acting like its a high school science project for the last few years and know you are seeing the results.

Of course you can. No one uses it

False. ASICs are inevitable for any POW algo. Decentralization comes from competition between mining entities.

Socialists can't understand this.

Wrong. Non mining nodes are just relay stations, and unless you're actually sending a number of TXs from your own node, it's damn pointless.

non-mining nodes don't do anything you retardo

>users shouldnt run nodes to prevent the miners from attacking the network
i always laugh when i hear the kinds of shit bcash lae adopters mumble about

That's why only PoS is mining asic resistant. Also more decentralized because everyone gets the same % return, rich people can't advantage of economies of scale like they can with PoW.

Let the market decide the block limit. Blocks that are too big and take too long to download are orphaned.

Socialists hate the market deciding things.

If the miners attack the network there's literally nothing you can do as a non-miner. Your coins are worthless at that point

you seem to be deeply confused about how bitcoin works, but again, its no surprise for people that had been force fed nothing but very obvious bullshit from people like ver.

As someone who recieves btc payments you want to run your own full node. If you connect to an electrum server and check your balance the server can troll you.

Imagine you want to automatically sell something, like eth, of you don't run a full node you are fucked

POS has no risk. You put up your own coins and rake in the money. It incentivizes hoarding and never spending. Pointless for a currency. The rich get richer and there's no mobility.

POW is a risk and an investment. You have to purchase specific machines that are only good for mining that coin, you have to pay for electricity. If the market is good, you make a lot more than you spend, but you're still spending, and if the market is good you're forced to keep spending to keep up with ever increasing difficulty. Decentralization comes from competing entities all fighting for a slice of the pie.

lucky for all of the non-political users of bitcoin out there, we did decide, and we rejected miner-founded currencies designed to pump up the block size.

simple as that.

Please, tell me how you as a non-mining node do anything to save yourself in the event of a Miner take over

>Miners take over coin and begin printing
>You take notice of this
>You try to send your money to coinbase to sell before the crash
>The miners reject your transaction because, surprising, they own the network
>Your coins go to 0 via inflation or dumping

Please educate me you troglodyte

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Only miners decide what software is run. If miners all change consensus from your useless node, the chain you're watching(and only watching because that's all you do) dies off while you're screaming that your dead chain is the real bitcoin and the miners are happily mining away without you.

Lucky for all of use, we're in a free market and socialist ideas will be tried again and again, always to find out that human nature doesn't change and it's better to work with it than against it. BCH will win out long term because it embraces a market system and not a socialist top down "i know what's best for it" system.

>POS has no risk
You're still invested in the success of the currency. A guy holding 1m in a PoS coin is risking more than a guy with a 2k mining rig.

>It incentivizes hoarding and never spending.
I heard that about deflationary assets but never about PoS. It's a meme for the economically illiterate anyway - all spending is suboptimal unless you are spending money on investments.

>all spending is suboptimal unless you are spending money on investments
Okay so the POW coin has miners who constantly need to invest to keep up or they get left behind and the POS coin has the staker who just restakes their coins forever and ever. One has liquidity and use, and actual interchangeability with something real(electricity) and one is literal digital pogs. Guess which one retains its value long term?

An emergency hardfork to a different PoW algorithm thus bricking all their illiquid hardware.

The devs and speculators are the ones truly in control. Miners can just throw temper-tantrums and be disruptive short-term. But the enterprise of a blockchain is a venture between developers and speculators. Devs and node operators tend to go hand in hand, along with hodler-oriented speculators. So it's pretty much devs and hodlers.

>Forking

That would be an alt-coin and not bitcoin, thus it's shit

>POS
Absolute trash. I want my coins to actively cost something when they are created.

It stops people from dumping them fo shit

I can't wait for the day that Blockstream false flags a miner attack on the network.

btc is just another crypto and if it came out today people would laugh its so bad. but like the old model t people will still collect them and they will live on, but the feels have changed

Why are you even in blockchains if you think miners play no part? Just get some trusted people to sign off on every block and be done with it like POS. The point of POW is that it takes actual work, you can be uprooted from being top dog if someone out competes you. You can change POW to another POW all you want, but every algorithm is written in code and all code runs on hardware. Every algorithm can be optimized by an ASIC specific to it. Every single one. You're left to play whack-a-mole as ASICs pop up to your new POW algorithm, fighting human nature forever. Instead, work with human nature, ASICs are always going to happen, and it drives technological innovation and competition as competing entities try to make the best one.

Not to mention, the instant you change to a new POW, the most profitable way to mine before an ASIC comes out is through botnets. So you incentivize thieving of computational cycles instead of innovative competition.

Socialists man, how the fuck did they decide fucking with crypto was a good idea? Jesus christ man.

Sort of, yes. It would be a fork, but if the devs and the majority of the community carry over, then saying its an altcoin is "ship of Theseus" level semantics.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

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Socialists also changed the voting through hash power to voting through nodes. What the fuck do NODES DO? No one seems to explains how having 100000 non-mining nodes contributes to security or speed. It might actually slow the network down.

Distrusting miners makes no sense. They are economically incentivized to give the best transaction quality possible in order to make money. Node operators invest, what, $10 into a node? Miners invest millions. Who would you rather trust? The one who might lose $500k or the one who might lose $10-20?

You dont even have to trust the miners, just trust in competition. If one miner misbehaves, all the more economic opportunity for his competitors. In a blocklimitless universe, even the cheapest of fees will grant you entry on chain as miners undercut eachother for the lowest fees, eventually hitting a lowest fee that no miner wishes to go lower than. Same thing happens with the actual blocksize. If most mining hardware on the network cant handle a 500MB block, then miners are incentivized not to mine a 500mb block since they will be orphaned while their block downloads to others. The blocksize is literally set by the hardware capabilities and risk management. Instead you get these socialist "Thou shalt not pass 1mb" goons who dont understand anything about markets or economics. It's bloody maddening.

They're mostly paid shills anyway.

POS guarantees an oligarchy where any development will bw dependent on the wealthiest people

One side is paid to fight, the other fights for free.

Really though, I've been arguing my points for months, and I feel like the tide is slowly turning.

>believes in labor theory of value
and you're calling other people in this thread socialist, lmao

It has value because it sees use. It gets worked on because it has value. The value happens before the labour, hence the block reward halving over time. It will be less valuable in the beginning as fewer people are using it, and as usage increases over time, the block reward decreases over time.

Didn't he invent ring signatures and some other stuff? Seems ok to me. I thought he was a dumbass brainlet but lightning seems to work and we need fees for security as the rewards are like an upside down pyramid paying a lower and lower % for security every year.

If the block reward eventually reaches 0, it would mean that Bitcoin was successful enough to have miners mining for all the decades it would take to get to that point, which would mean it had worldwide adoption. At which point miners would only mine for fees and no block reward, but the price per bitcoin in world wide adoption is so high that fees are more than enough to incentivize mining, the fees would be many. Even without full blocks, even with 1 cent transactions, no LN required. Turns out there are a lot of humans and humans do a lot of transacting.

Yeah but your argument against POS is simply that POW is somehow more intrinsically valuable because someone spent effort/money/electricity to make a coin. You oughta know better.

Nothing would have come out if it had not been for Bitcoin you mongoloid.

It's intrinsically more valuable because it requires you to spend your POW coins to continue competing. You spend your coins, they enter circulation and are used and spent. They fulfill the use case which brings them value. You could argue that inflation will decrease value, and it does to a degree, but the real value is in the usage of the coin which you are incentivized to use in a POW system.

Compared with POS, you get more POS coins and stake them, get more POS coins and stake them, on and on until a small number of wealthy holders are the only ones signing blocks. Bad for currency and bad for decentralization.

>the users decide what bitcoin is
if by users you mean miners then ok sure

quality post. bitcoin is an economic system. the neckbeards don't understand that.

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yup, i stopped arguing mostly, because there are no counter-arguments. I'll join back in the fray when I actually see one. Cool thing about technological truths is they are inevitable. Semantic reality can be twisted to all hell, but physics is immutable. I know we've got until 2020 before the hammer falls, so if in the mean time deluded troglodytes want to make asses of themselves and pretend like they're in the right . . . victory will be that much sweeter.

In this bear market the only safe place for your assets is PoWH3D. It's the HODL meme personified. The divs and linear price increase is waiting for you at powh.io/?masternode=0xf6204c1fbacc5bb157f458d4e31cb80717331aad

God you are so right man 2mb every 10 minutes is soooo much. Good mental math there brainlet

I'm glad someone appreciates them. Usually I feel like it falls on deaf ears. Hopefully it encourages some of those more socialist thinkers to actually start thinking. I have doubts about that, though.

Right? More and more it's just bcash bcash roger roger. I try to engage, I try to discuss, but it's impossible to argue with those kinds of things. This thread has been nice so far, explained some points and counter points, got my juices flowing a bit, feels good man.
Even with the bcash trolls, if I do try to engage and ask them something like "What could change your mind?" like any hypothetical, anything that could possibly change their mind, and they keep responding with garbage, it makes it clear to everyone reading that they have no substance. But yeah, I'm ranting. Good to have sane people around.

the market did decide its preferred block size by pricing each coin. currently the market values centralized shitcoin with bigger blocksize at about 10% of decentralized shitcoin with small blocks.
it seems that the market doesnt agree with you and youre bitching like a little girl, guess youre the socialist here.

yes, they can mine a coin that nobody gives a shit about, just like they did with bcash. at one time bcash even had over 50% of miners mining it, the price still didnt move much, since the market doesnt give a shit about it.
kys, commie.

there's a difference between tx backlog and tx request per second.
one inflates memory requirement, one doesn't.

>forking automatically means its altcoin
fucking leddit newfags, stop spewing garbage if you dont understand anything. the coin we call btc today has had plenty of fork, both soft and hard, and we still call it btc.
guess why?

>What the fuck do NODES DO?
imagine miners being a sausage manufacturers while non-mining nodes are usda. sure, one invested millions into his factory to manufacture the sausage, but you still need usda (which invests nothing) to oversee and check the quality of the sausage before it hits the market. without them, youll get poisonous sausages filled with literal shit.

Most crypto investors don't even know what a blockchain is and you expect them to know the downsides of big blocks?

This time everyone agrees it was an inside job

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