At what point does a human being become "conscious"? Think of the phrase "I think, therefore I am"...

At what point does a human being become "conscious"? Think of the phrase "I think, therefore I am", when exactly does this happen?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally–Anne_test
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/summary/49_1.html
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/summary/42_1.html
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/jihyea.jpg
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/42_233p_jihyea.jpg
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/21_3_1_1.jpg.
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/21_3_1.jpg
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/21_3_1_2.jpg
youtu.be/QjkTQtggLH4
psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201311/when-does-lying-begin
dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2480644/Babies-remember-music-heard-womb-months-born.html)
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally–Anne_test

Perhaps, since you can then realize that you are your distinct "self", and that the other entities around you are their distinct "self".

However this is a very vague and philosophical topic, because the word "conscious" is a vague term.

> What was even the point of this

You are really misquoting Descartes there.
"I think Therefore I am" is actually to posit the metaphysical existence of ones self, not as a realization of ones consciousness

>Perhaps, since you can then realize that you are your distinct "self", and that the other entities around you are their distinct "self".
That's sense of self not consciousness.
Source: on shrooms you're still consciousness but you feel no distinction between yourself, others, or the universe at large.

[soiler]it's interesting because this implies that this feeling/perception (of distinctness), is a mere product of the mind -> it could be false. So too could then be our feelings and perceptions of consciousness.

In stage of o-on(오온, 五蘊) known as five skandha or five aggregates, the fifth stage sik(식, 識) consists of a quark and a glueball. The quark is evolved from a dark matter.
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/summary/49_1.html

brahmanedu.org/english/materials/summary/42_1.html

brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/jihyea.jpg

brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/42_233p_jihyea.jpg

I think the above images give you a hint.

The action of o-on(오온, 五蘊) occurs in a cheon-gung(천궁, 天宮).
There are several types of cheon-gungs.
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/21_3_1_1.jpg.
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/21_3_1.jpg
brahmanedu.org/english/materials/images/21_3_1_2.jpg

'bout three fiddy

>At what point does a human being become "conscious"?

Soon

Who cares
Descartes was a cuck
Who took a long time to realize basic shit
fuck u descartes

At around 3 months old. If you ever have kids or deal with infants you will see. It's kinda obvious.

More like 7 years.

Not sure if entirely relevant, although there is the the sally-anne test:

youtu.be/QjkTQtggLH4

Children typically pass this test around 4-5 years old.

Freud believes there is a point in which after a child is born, it believes it is still one with it's mother. The moment it realises that it is, is the feeling of death to the world.

Also the on the capacity and learning of lying:
psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201311/when-does-lying-begin

But it depends really on your thoughts and belief of consciousness. I swear I see adults who aren't fully conscious.

I didn't really elaborate.

Sally - Anne test is where the instructor has two dolls, two baskets, and a marble. The marble originally belongs to Sally, who has it in her basket. Sally goes off to play, and while doing so, Anne moves the marble from Sally's basket to hers. When Sally gets back, which basket does she check first?

Young children (under 5) and autistic (up until around 12) point at Sally's, because they don't understand that Anne would assume that the marble was in her basket the whole time.

The concept of seperation of a baby from its mother would be another. Is the baby born knowing that it and its mother are seperate? Probably not. The age or moment in which the baby understands that the mother and it are not the same being, could be the development of conscious.

The act of lying in infants is also interesting, because it is actually a hard thing to do. Like the Sally - Anne test, children have to have developed first the understanding that people cannot read their minds, and that experiences are exclusive to them. To get the truth out of a child is easy, because they buckle under pressure and assume an adult can read their mind or know what they did. When a person can confidently lie or understand that they are exclusively thinking beings could be the first indication of conscious.

But again, these are varying on your perception of conscious. Hopefully this isn't a ploy to convince your girlfriend into an abortion.

If what you are saying is true, children are not conscious until they can pass the Sally-Anne test.

OP's point is to pose the question: Is it ok to abort a child if they are not yet conscious? The answer is no, since it invloves the taking of a life that will become conscious

Humans are conscious well before they are born.

I understand that, but that isn't what OP is asking.

What I'm trying to elaborate on depends on what it is OP is truly asking (at no point did he put it in the context of abortion, it was a quip I made, intended as a joke).

I refute (and not because I am pro choice)

Take for example the mirror test, in which infants at around the 18 month mark can identify themselves.

Is a dog conscious? Or does it rely on instinct, rewards, and behaviors?

A baby in a womb breaths, is breathing a conscious effort? No, it is instinctual, we do not need to consciously breath once every few seconds.

The human has a process of developing a consciousness.

I agree with your sentiment about abortion, and each to their own, although if your talking about "when does a human develop consciousness," then at what point do we say "here."

OP here. What I meant to ask is when does a human being become "self-aware", to me that's being conscious. When you realize that (philosophy aside) you are an independent living being.

For example I have memories from when I was like 3 but I know I wasn't self aware at that point, so I could say I was alive but not conscious of my existence.

This has nothing to do with abortion by the way.

But you were aware. The mirror test denotes the ability to be self aware (18 months). The Sally - Anne test demonstrates the ability to understand that different people have their own experiences (4-5 years). Being able to fully lie means that you understand experiences are you own and you can manipulate how other people perceive interpret external stimuli.

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep.
Everybody you know. Everybody you see.
Everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people
are awake, and they live in a state of constant total amazement."
– Meg Ryan (as Patricia Graynamore), "Joe Versus the Volcano" (1990)

>obvious non-thinker is obvious
fgt pls

>Young children (under 5) and autistic (up until around 12) point at Sally's, because they don't understand that Anne would assume that the marble was in her basket the whole time.
Perhaps they just don't understand the difference between does and should yet.

Arbitrary cognitive abilities != conscious. Babies hear shit before birth (see: dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2480644/Babies-remember-music-heard-womb-months-born.html) and I'd define that as conscious.

Sonars can hear too

Do sonars have brains?

they call it mircoprocessors, but yeah

>they call it mircoprocessors, but yeah
Not really a brain, so whether they actually hear is questionable
That said I'm open to the notion of certain computer programs being conscious.

>so whether they actually hear is questionable
So what are they processing... they are processing transduced sound which is technically hearing.

you might think you're so fucking funny with spamming epic bait threads but no
you're not
fuck off

>So what are they processing... they are processing transduced sound which is technically hearing.
Well no, hearing is the conscious experience of a sound. It remains to be proven whether this process occurs in computers.
For instance it's possible to hear things when there is no corresponding pressure waves hitting your ears, by stimulating the relevant parts of the brain with electricity or whathaveyou.

When your ketamine wears off.

So how do they know fetuses hearing involves consciousness and it's not just mindless signal capturing and information storing?

On average, never.

>So how do they know fetuses hearing involves consciousness and it's not just mindless signal capturing and information storing?
Because they respond to the sounds the same way born-babies do? I mean we have ultrasounds we can watch it happening.
You seem to be confusing consciousness with the other multitude cognitive abilities we have for some reason. I don't know why you're having this problem but perhaps you'd like to peruse a dictionary some?

>mindless signal capturing and information storing
that is consciousness

>You seem to be confusing consciousness with the other multitude cognitive abilities

You seem to be mixing neural activity with consciousness

I don't know why you're having this problem but perhaps you'd like to learn set theory some?

Does that mean my PC is conscious?

YOUR THERMOSTAT IS CONSCIOUS

>You seem to be mixing neural activity with consciousness
I'd disagree with this supposition entirely.

For the sake of clarity I'd take consciousness to mean having perceptions. Your perceptions as a whole form the content of your consciousness.
i.e. if you are an entity which has no thoughts or feelings, have no long or short term memories, and can make no movements or anything, but you can see, then that would be a conscious entity.

Not anymore.

For me, it was around the age of 13-14.
Don't get me wrong here, but it was first in 7th grade when my teacher brought up the topic of reflecting ones thoughts and such, that I actually realized that I am a living, thinking being. I don't remember many details of my childhood, and I blame the lack of teaching the 'reflecting one's thoughts' thing.