So let me get this straight

I'm supposed to use a private seed generated by the company and take it on faith that its truly random

Then I use this usb to access my funds and store the key myself

I'm supposed to trust my own home security more than I trust a reputable exchange's multi million dollar security system?

What do I do when somebody bashes in my kneecaps and asks for my recovery seed because they know ive made it?

Is this thing a meme?

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Yes, they are a meme. Just keep your money on an exchange.

well having this issue too.
i have around 5k$ in different coins spreaded across 3 different exchanges: binance, bittrex, abucoins. Im planning to sell and re-buy during summer pump.
in august i am going for a long travel (1-2 year) during which i want to more or less activilty trade.. after summer and winter pumps i want to move at least half of the hldings to cold wallet..

i was thinking about spreading half of my holdings (let's say xrp, neo, trx) on three to four exchanges. so 25% of each coin would land on a different exchange securing me from one of the exchanges going down

>ITT: baby's first approach to decentralization

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If you've made it then you'll live in a gated community or a property with your own security.

Pls kys. You generate a seed when you receive it.

People can also kidnap you and ask for ransom as easily. Point is not telling anyone about your crypto posetions

yes i agree keep ur money on an exchange its much safer

For people that have used both, which is better, Ledger or Trezor?

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>So let me get this straight
No, you're gonna get it gay, boi

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Another thread where crypto noobs don't understand hardware wallets. It's for secure, fast transfer, not secure storage.

If you hold a good amount you need at least multi sig cold storage security anyway. You 4 and 5 figure brainlets don't need any of this.


> Another thread where people give wrong advice.
Get a trezor, setup multiple passphrases thus muliple wallets.
relates to 8309400

Paper wallets are cheaper than ledgers, easily duplicated, and you can encrypt them. You could slip a backup to your bank deposit box, your mom's house etc and it would work if it's encrypted.

I actually plan to tell people I lost all my money on crypto and don't really have anything. I already fucked up by telling my family.

these things are for tards that don't know anything.

the whole point of crypto is that you can access it anywhere at anytime.

Hardware wallets are a joke.
You don't need these.

How will you tell the cops you don't have any crypto when they find your ledger?
How will you convince Tyrone you don't own cryptos when he shakes a ledger out of your pocket?
Why are you going to tie yourself down to hardware?
r you going to put the ledger in a condom in your ass when you are going to travel?

no, you store you private key in the cloud, encrypted, multiple places.

that's how you do it.

Why is it not secure?
If I'm just a normie that holds his 1 BTC till 2020 on a device with a wallet whose private key has never been leaked outside of the "secure" device, why wouldn't that be secure enough?

>Just keep your money on an exchange.
Digits in the cloud.
What could go wrong?
Uh oh!

you can create your own key with python from shell using code from electron. do it with linux OS, fresh install, and never connect to internet. remember it. keep 10% to trade on exchange send profit to cold wallet.

>Keep money on exchange
>guy bashes in my kneecaps and asks for my exchange information because they know ive made it

How is that any different

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Why are hardware wallets not for secure storage? Nice meme

I hear Bitgrail is a good one

I wondered the same thing. Basically during setup the Nano S offers you a seed phrase. Who's to say that isn't broadcast the first time I plug it in? Actually fuck that is has to be plugged in during setup anyway. Not trusting this chink device

Buy a trezor, that ledger shit is cancerous closed source botnet.

it´s not.... you just can´t win in crypto

This is why security starts with no-one ever knowing you have crypto. Also have one wallet with a pitiful ammount and the key written somewhere painfully obvious like on a paper in your irl wallet, so if this happens you can give up your NGR coins. Let them bash you a few times so they don't suspect it's not everything you own.

This is one of those things in cryptography that is fascinating for a brainlet like me. How does this work, the fact that it is "offline"? i.e. For example, when creating the MEW wallet, you generate a private key. Then you are able to "send" funds to it. How.. !? It's almost like magic, and yes I'm a brainlet. Please no bully.

Meant to say when creating a MEW wallet OFFLINE.

the ONLY benefit to a ledger is that it saves you buying a totally new computer and generating wallets on it, and then hoping you can use it safely when you want to actually make txs, usually by going through complicated offline signing processes, which need you to securely import txs or the entire blockchain onto your offline device.

but you can generate your seeds yourself, and import them. at the end of the day you have to trust your hardware and it's manufacturer. for all we know intel or amd could be working on backdoors to detect and modify cryptocurrency algorithms to make them generate seeds in their favor, anything is possible at the hardware layer.

the little advantage ledger has is that the hardware is signed in a way that is very expensive to extract and fake, so with ledger you ONLY trust ledger, but with a keepkey or trezor, you must trust the company, but also anyone that came into contact with the device that could have swapped out components.

For fuck's sake
>Buy two ledgers
>Have a safe in your house
>Put the decoy ledger with a few thousand dollars and it's recovery phrase in the safe
>Bury your real ledger somewhere
>Split your recovery phrase into two, store in separate locations (two separate safety deposit boxes, yes I know, fuck the banks, but who is actually an idealist that cares)
In addition, recovery phrase stored at banks can be willed off

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Your wallet exists in the blockchain, not on your computer or phone or hardware wallet. All your hardware wallet does is protect your keys and help access it. A paper wallet is just a rendering of your private key in QR.

Your wallet is always "online" in other words

Yes, I am clear on the part about it existing on the blockchain. i.e. There aren't any real "coins" per se; It's on the blockchain.

But my question is: There was a tutorial on how to generate a private key OFFLINE using MEW.

If you generate a key "OFFLINE", how does the blockchain "know" you generated that key? Or is this really a stupid question.. :)

>People can also kidnap you and ask for ransom as easily.
Do I really need to explain why criminals would prefer being paid in crypto rather than physical cash or bank transfer?

it doesn't generate you a new key. every single keypair has already been generated. you basically just claim a new one. the possibility of "claiming" a key that has already been claimed/has something in it is very low, to say the least

It doesn't. As far as the blockchain knows, your key doesn't exist until someone sends fund to it.

>the blockchain is a ledger
>when you generate a private key you are making an account in the ledger
>this works because of randomness, someone else is very unlikely to generate the same key
>when you go online you can do stuff with the ledger account because you can prove you own the key to it

trezor is not safe, it was hacked last year.

get a paper wallet instead.

Don't believe this guy, he's retarded.

Fascinating! Wish I was smart enough to learn the math behind cryptography. Truly a fascinating field!

like there are 10 numbers, 1-10. if you "generate" a number offline, it gives you, say, 7. it isn't a new, generated number. it's already there. you just claim it. similar to how you "generate" a wallet but on a scale so vast you cant even begin to fathom (and i cant be bothered to look up the numbers)

literally nothing is 100% safe

Thanks. That makes sense. I saw a graphic on here a while back showing pictures of stars, planets, etc. and basically saying that you'd need a quadrillion planets' worth of matter and 3 billion suns working for the lifetime of the universe to attempt to guess a private key or something to that affect. Pretty cool stuff.

A machine "randomly" generated seed us ultimately more secure than any seed you can ever think of
>What do if somebody tries to kill me for my seed
Same thing you'd do if they tried to kill you for your passwords/keystore file/ect brainlet

Are you guys actually this stupid or pretending? Store on an exchange and get rekt like the others on mtgox and bitgrail

Yes, because cashing out is harder. Criminals need to eat too, especially especially if they're small time guys who just kidnap individuals for cash

You can generate your own key, on your own hardware and derive a bip39 mnemonic and enter it into your ledger.

>I'm supposed to use a private seed generated by the company and take it on faith that its truly random
This. Not many people seem to get how dangerous this is. You should use a hardware wallet only for pocket money because it's convenient and relatively secure but for larger amounts it's better to generate they private keys using open source tools and /dev/urandom or just roll dice.

What about generating my own seed and using that for a ledger?

> Painfully obvious like on paper in your real wallet
Uhh this totally isn't how I store all my keys

Do you know what deterministic means?

Imagine if you bought a hardware wallet with some chink firmware on it. That firmware may contain a static seed hashed against a very simple 32 bit salt he can just cycle through the 32 bit keyspace to get all the coins from every single address.

The concern is about the strength of RNGs. Usually it's considered a very bad idea to rely on some black box RNG.

chink knows this number -> statickey = 75231dcdd0dfffd208f51ef133ac189c2d6ab3003152c48310fb52c5661c1d32
and all permutations of this -> salt = random_32_bits = 0x43EA05DF
privatekey = sha256 ( statickey || 0x43EA05DF ) = c3a6569d196b55cfe7c29747ae531780cc9b4729c4735efb0f138bb475af5f35

that reduced the keyspace to 4294967296 permutations

i have both. i like the trezor. the ledger has to use a google ap for now. it's kind of lame, and i hear google is getting rid of their aps this year.

plus i like the looks of the trezor. didn't think i would til i got it.

yes you can do that, these hardware wallets are the way forward, you guys leave your crypto on the exchange, i can see they are secure, but ask your self what happens if an admins or multiple admins families are kidnapped? like they are not going to comply and empty the account.
what happens if the site goes down? have you looked into the mt gov thing as you guys were probably just learning to walk when that happened. now the mt gov ppl get a fiat payout of the value when the exchange i want my coins...

Crypto is partly about owning and controlling your own funds, 'be your own bank' it used to be said.
not 'leave things of value on this site here, i promise it will be here in the morning'.

What I don't understand is that the Seed that the ledger gives you is based on what? I have cleared my Ledger many times and reinstalled and when I reinstall the Ethereum or any other Crypto app it knows that my wallet and seeds are connected to the seed that the Ledger gave me, but where is that information saved? Is it centralized on Ledgers database?

>How is the Ledger Seed connected to the Ethereum or Crypto wallet seeds?

store it like gold, as in a paper wallet in a place you trust will not be found/not be broken into etc etc
dude - if we get to a point where you need to move funds and the whole world went ypocalypse and you cxant trust nobody, where are you moving those funds to? "back home?"

Ledger allows you to set up a hidden wallet:

couldn't i just send a good friend one half of the recovery prhase, and another the other half?

cashing out is easy as shit
let me give you an example
set up a taco store
"oh yeah my customers paid me in crypto"
need to cash out larger sums? set up multiple taco stores.

>burying electronics
>what is corrosion

It's fine. Don't listen to these fucking autists. As long as you generated a new key when you got the device, you're good.

So, if I am understanding this correctly:
1. I can generate a passphrase offline.
2. I can restore this offline generated passphrase on a Ledger by the "restore" option,.

For those who are concerned with "black box tampering", wouldn't this pretty much do away with this concern?

I was confused by this too originally. The seed you get at set up means that it will only generate certain random addresses based on that particular seed. So your seed when put in another wallet or ledger for example, would regenerate all the exact same addresses, which is why your seed is really the primary "key" to your account, if that makes sense.

How do you access your wallet if you store your private key on a piece of paper?

My father asked me to setup accounts on exchanges and create him a Bitcoin and Ethereum wallet. Should I order a Trezor or a Nano S?

it does.

The chip has all the wallets and seeds already in it.

This. I'm convinced the government funded shills are brigading the crypto subs leading everyone into buying this closed source garbo so they can take a dump on people later

I mean, you could theoretically distrust anything. Nothing would ever get done and you would hide in the confines of your bedroom forever, but it could be done.

nano s is thought to be superior by pretty much everyone.

But is it necessary? It seems that the only use it has is to allegedly guarantee safe transactions, is it really as secure as everyone says?

no ones ever lost funds with a hardware wallet due to a hack

ledger. better form factor, and support more coins at the moment.

wasnt hacked, an exploit was found. everyone upgraded to the pitched version so no one lost funds. in fact someone recovered lost funds by using the exploit to access the trezor after he forgot his password.

it all comes down to do you trust yourself to keep your private key safe?only you can answer that.If you think your computer is safe from every malware, keylogger, virus etc.If you think you can hide the key in real life on paper, steel etc and nobody finds it.Or just spend 100 dollars on a hardware wallet and never worry about any of that shit.Was an easy choice for me.

Newfags out

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No, the hardware wallet generates a seed for you at random when you ask it to (at first use although I am unsure if you can regenerate until you get a seed you are happy with). Then you note this seed down. It is a constant seed which is used to generate your wallet key pairs across all currencies, in a non random (deterministic) way. Therefore when you lose your ledger you can regenerate all your wallet key pairs with your noted seed.