What plotlines and arcs are you most looking forward to?
Any theories you picked up on reading the earlier books that you think will play out in the next book?
Have you been reading the released sample chapters?
Where do you think characters will end up by the end of the book? Who do you think is going to die before it ends?
When do you think the book will finally be released?
Also, general ASOIAF discussion for those of you on Veeky Forums who don't mind genre fiction.
I dont think most people on Veeky Forums are serious about hating Genre fiction. But whenever they say something about GOT being shit, they're right. Do yourself a favor and stop eating shit.
No, it very much is a meme.
Veeky Forums's hate stems from:
>the series being made popular from the shitty show
>GRRM's lacking prose form
>Claiming that the story is entirely ripped off history and other books
I can vaguely understand the first argument in a contrarian kind of way, sort of understand the second if that is truly important to you in the books you read, but the third argument is a false one. GRRM has taken lots of inspiration from history, of course. It's the love child of historical fiction and high fantasy after all. But the parallels are never one-to-one matchups- he takes inspiration and plays with it, and takes his own version of it to keep things interesting and new.
The things ASOIAF readers like are the story, the worldbuilding, and the depth of the characters. Things like mysteries, intrigue, histories and lore, the occult and magic, commentary on things like war, feudalism, justice, the right to rule, feminism, vengeance and violence, family relationships, love and duty, amongst other things are also interesting and compelling in the story.
It's a simple question of whether that's for you or not. To ASOIAF fans, it is. To a lot of Veeky Forums, it isn't. I don't mind that, of course, I'm only concerned for those who fell for the meme instead of actually having an independent thought of their own.
Besides, ASOIAF is not GOT.
I am mostly curious about Val, Littlefinger and Euron. The Pink letter reveal should be a lot better than in the series too I bet.
Hopefully he releases it by the end of the year.
Good post but prepare for a good load of patronising and accusing (you)s
>Euron
Has any character ever gotten so interesting over night as much as Euron?
After reading AFFC, I thought Euron was a joke. The scary wizard pirate with an eyepatch, he seemed like Darkstar, some kind of anime character.
But then The Forsaken chapter got released at Balticon and Euron got a LOT more interesting. Really want to see where he goes from here.
Somebody help me
Tell me where to go from here
'Cuz even thugz cry
But do da Lord care?
GRRM is the Dan Brown of fantasy, creating the illusion of false culture because
>Things like mysteries, intrigue, histories and lore, the occult and magic, commentary on things like war, feudalism, justice, the right to rule, feminism, vengeance and violence, family relationships, love and duty, amongst other things are also interesting and compelling in the story.
>The things ASOIAF readers like are
>the story
Boring, and its pacing is incompetent.
>the worldbuilding
Even that, its statute in pleb blazonry aside, is of particularly little worth. Typical videogame fantasy world. The place with snow. The place with grass. The place with sand. Some exotic islands over there. "Worldbuilding"! Dear gods.
>the depth of the characters
It's okay not to want more than the soles of your sandals to get wet.
People who are really into literature are generally pretty shitty. They're opinions aren't valuable to most other people because they will hate a series and call it shit if they don't see it as high brow enough; irregardless of the content. It becomes impossible for these types of people to see the good parts, so it will forever be irredeemable to them.
Basically, fuck Veeky Forums and fuck you too, for asking.
>What plotlines and arcs are you most looking forward to?
I want to know if Strong Belwas will recover and travel to Westoros to fuck shit up.
>Where do you think characters will end up by the end of the book? Who do you think is going to die before it ends?
Jon Starkgaryen will be King uh da Norf, rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Most likely the letter from Robb will be what does it; he will have been legitimized in the eyes of the Northerners.
Jeyne Poole will most likely die.
Daenerys will have returned to Meereen to slaughter her enemies, no more trying to make peace. Fire and blood. Victarion will swear his allegiance to her and she will have the ships she needs.
Arya will return to Westeros and (hopefully) reunite with her direwolf and its massive pack.
Tyrion will most likely have a much harder time winning Daenerys' trust. Eventually he will convince her to let him join her when she returns to Westeros.
Aegon will probably be killed. We will most likely never know if he is truly the prince.
Ser Barristan will die of old age after helping Daenerys retake Meereen. Either on voyage back or shortly before.
Rickon will be rescued by Davos, perhaps with dragonglass for the Night's Watch.
Stannis will die; his forces routed by the Boltons.
Cersei will end up using the Wildfire to burn the city, or at least trying to. Jaime will be forced to killer her as he had killed Aerys.
Jaime will cast off his white cloak and travel to Casterly Rock; having no one left to protect. Perhaps in ADOS he will meet Daenerys and tell her why he killed her father.
I believe GRRM has said 3 POV characters will die. The only people that are -probably- safe are Jon, Arya, and Tyrion.
>Victarion will swear his allegiance to her and she will have the ships she needs.
I don't see it happening quite like this. Do you REMEMBER Victarion chapters? Dude's a violent meathead. Maybe Dany might like that though.
Something to do with Dragonbinder will happen
I'm praying to the Gods that my man Doran doesn't get absolutely fucked over like he did on the show.
Dorne will rise again.
His religiosity borders on zealotry and he's already been turned toward the red god. As the red priests begin to support Daenerys, Victarion will support her with fervor. Perhaps offering Dragonbinder.
Wishful thinking, maybe. I don't want anyone to bind one of the dragons.
I might read it out if curiosity. I think I'll be annoyed from forgetting most of the story. Been so long since I read the books. It's hard to justify reading this over all the other stuff I could be
I think the series is interesting and fun. I also don't think GRRM, while not being any sort of literary genius or anything, is really that big of a hack at all.
Tbh I think most of the anti-ASOIAF posting here is high school/college kids trying to be elitist and/or people who have never read the books and lump them with the tv show, which while being very entertaining is overall admittedly a pile of shit.
Oh, Doran will get fucked over. He's going to watch everything he loves crumble. The story of House Martell is a tragedy. They are good people at heart, that have been fucked over hard by lions and dragons.
Doran’s problem is he’s caught between irreconcilable desires: he’s been largely consumed by his desire for revenge on the Lannisters, but he’s also been traumatized by his losses and so doesn’t want to fight that war until he knows he can win. That’s why he’s introduced gazing at the fragile oasis of innocence that is the Water Gardens, with the “well past ripe” blood oranges splattering to the ground behind him. As we see in his conversation with Arianne in “The Princess in the Tower”, he’s haunted by the fear he’s leading his people into another abyss.
Ultimately, he can’t make these drives work together, so we get hopeless contradictions like intending Arianne to be his heir but also cutting her off emotionally and logistically while parading a series of unsuitable suitors before her without explanation because he’s so terrified of getting caught, or sending Quentyn on a bold quest while ignoring that a) Quentyn doesn’t want to go and b) Quentyn is an intelligent, self-aware, deeply empathetic young man who is just not up for playing this particular part and c) the marriage pact is utterly unenforceable, as Barristan straight-up tells the reader.
Doran can’t conceive of a world in which his revenge plan isn’t brilliant, just as Arianne can’t conceive of a world in which one of her friends would betray her and Quentyn can’t conceive of a world in which he doesn’t succeed on his quest. GRRM shows the Martells over the course of Feast and Dance, like he’s been showing the Starks all along, that they, in fact, live in precisely such a world. The ripple effects over the course of TWOW and ADOS are going to be devastating.
He's going to be caught right in the centre of the second Dance of Dragons, caught between Daenerys and Aegon. Fire and Blood is what destroys Doran and his family.
>I don't want anyone to bind one of the dragons.
The story of the dragons is the story of nuclear proliferation. If we only needed the dragons to ride and kill the Others, GRRM would have only included one dragon. But because there are three, it means at least one of them is going to be stolen. Euron or Victarion will command a dragon before the end of TWOW.
>They're opinions
this is why I need feminism
also I'd like to credit the ASOIAF fan PoorQuentyn for this copypasta analysis on Doran. He does pretty good essays on a lot of the series, and while I do disagree with some of his ideas, he has an aptitude for analysis:
poorquentyn.tumblr.com
Yeah, the struggle of the Martells and vengeance seems likely.
If we look at what Ellaria said, this theme seems central to the Dornish plot:
>"Oberyn wanted vengeance for Elia. Now the three of you want vengeance for him. I have four daughters, I remind you. Your sisters. My Elia is fourteen, almost a woman. Obella is twelve, on the brink of maidenhood. They worship you, as Dorea and Loreza worship them. If you should die, must El and Obella seek vengeance for you, then Dorea and Loree for them? Is that how it goes, round and round forever? I ask again, where does it end? I saw your father die. Here is his killer. Can I take a skull to bed with me, to give me comfort in the night? Will it make me laugh, write me songs, care for me when I am old and sick?"
Ellaria understand that the cycle of vengeance is bad, and after a while, enough blood is enough. Unfortunately, Doran, Arianne and Oberyn's daughters NEED revenge, as it's who they are. This is what will kill them all in the end.
Dropped it the moment that fat fuck let a shitty HBO show go past his own source material.
He's a fucking sellout, and I hope no one remembers his sub-par series in ~5 years.
I hope we get to see book 6/7 out of his sub-par series in the next 5 years.
Eh who cares I just treat them as two distinct things
>What plotlines and arcs are you most looking forward to?
tbqh Dany is pretty high up because I completely buy the prediction that she's going to burn a bloody trail straight across Essos from Meereen to Pentos. also Davos on Skagos, Battles of Ice and Fire, and fallout of Jon's assassination.
>Any theories you picked up on reading the earlier books that you think will play out in the next book?
A big part of Cat's story has been her relationship to the Starks and to revenge/bloodlust. her #1 concern is her family, but from the start she has this discussion about feeling at home among the Starks, feeling unlike these cold and serious people, and eventually, as she charges into more and more dangerous territory to carry out justice/protect her family, she thinks things like "maybe I really have become a Stark". I think these two concepts are connected in her story - becoming a Stark, getting revenge, and there's a conflict there because revenge for its own sake is bad in the larger scope of the series. and looking at Cat in her present state, at the height of her desire for revenge, she has lost her name and assumed her children are dead. she sort of mirrors Wyman Manderly in ADWD, in that he comes out espousing revenge for the North, but it's presented in a very troubling fashion which quickly gives way to brutality (Frey pies), and is immediately punished (Wyman gets his throat cut). I think Wyman and Catelyn will both be redeemed by finding the right way, Wyman by refocusing on the good of the North now that he's gotten his taste of vengeance, and Catelyn by moving towards helping her family again. with this in mind, I somewhat believe in the theory that she'll hook up with Howland Reed and be part of revealing Jon's parentage and getting Robb's will into the right hands. and I definitely think she'll have a sad reunion with Arya.
>Where do you think characters will end up by the end of the book? Who do you think is going to die before it ends?
Dany takes Dragonstone
Jon marches south
Tyrion sails west with Dany, his last scene is plotting revenge against Cersei and Jaime
Arya sails west with Stannis' mercenary army
Jaime and Cersei retreat to Casterly Rock after losing KL to Aegon
Dead POVs: Barristan, Aeron, Victarion, JonCon, Areo, Theon, maybe Melisandre
I actually don't think Theon will die. He's literally on death's door, which is why I think he might survive. GRRM does have a soft spot for Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things after all, and who is more Broken than Theon?
I don't know which direction he'll take. He might stay in the North for that story, head to the Night's Watch and be involved in whatever happens there, or he might head back into the Iron Isles plotline. But Theon has had so much character development that it seems a waste to drop him now. After all, one of the greatest things about Jaime is that we got to see changed Jaime in AFFC after he saved Brienne from the bear pit. Similarly, it would be nice to see changed Theon in TWOW after saving Jeyne from Winterfell. The redemptive event is not the whole redemption story, it's the aftermath of redemption for a character that's really interesting.
I do see Greyjoy PoVs being dropped though. I think Aeron and Vic die in TWoW and Asha dies in ADoS (if it ever releases)
I want less of Cersei scheming and thinking she's a genius while actually being a paranoid moron. And everyone away from Meereen as fast as possible. Also some reel ramifications for the Night's Watch and Jon's character from the assassination. And desperately hoping JonCon gets to to die happily and not have everything ripped away from him again.
>They are a good people at heart
I take issue with that.
While I'm certainly no fan of the Targaryens, let's take a look at the history between the Iron Throne and the Martells.
When Daeron the Young Dragon did his conquest of Dorne, there was at one point where he met under truce banners, in a peace meeting, with the Martells and was assassinate.
For Westeros? This should have been an outrage that would have galvanized literally every portion of it, barring Iron Islands perhaps, into committing genocide.
But for the Martells? Nothing happened. Hell, they took Daeron's crown, which was Aegon the Conqueror's, and never returned it. Not even when they became part of the Seven Kingdoms.
And let's not forget the fuckery with Baelor the Blessed. When that one Kingsguard, I forget his name, was being kept by Martell bannermen in a cage, surrounded by a pit of vipers, they actually had Baelor go through it to fetch the Kingsguard. If he'd died, and he really should have but he didn't because plot, that would have sparked another war.
Dorne keeps getting away with bullshit after bullshit.
So no, they're not good people.
While it's one thing to fight your conquerors however you can, there are still some rules to it.
Killing while in peace meetings? A big no-no.
Forcing a foreign king to walk through a pit of vipers? Stupidity on a level unheard of before.
Yeah, he could live. But it seems like wishful thinking that he has any remaining purpose in life. He hasn't had his redemption yet, he's working towards it. ADWD showed us how far he had fallen from ACOK, and had him grapple with and overcome his guilt by way of his death wish, going from wanting to die for relief, to wanting to die as punishment for his betrayal, to not wanting to die, or rather valuing another life (Jeyne) enough that he possibly sacrifices his for hers. That's him STARTING on the path to redemption, and I think TWOW will show the culmination of it. That's just the sense I get.
The Jaime comparison is interesting, but I don't think the parallel works, because ADWD did show Theon's change after a big dramatic arc. ACOK: reveals inner workings, tragic identity crisis, predicament that causes them to reevaluate their ideals/true beliefs, fatal consequence (yes, Reek comes later, but in ACOK you have the burning of the farm boys, murders of Winterfell citizens and deaths of Rodrik et al bannermen). AFFC/ADWD gives Theon and Jaime similar arcs: life in the fallout, struggling to reestablish identity, ends with heroic departure into mortal danger. I think Jaime lasts until ADOS to have a final conflict with Tyrion and Cersei, but Theon goes out with a bang at the end of TWOW.
how is dan brown any of those things, other than occult?
When I said good people at heart I was mainly talking about the current generation of House Martell. Doran, Elia, Oberyn, and their children.
I don't think it's fair to think Martells deserve punishment for their ancestors, though they will deserve punishment when they cross the moral boundary themselves (I believe they will do this when they get involved with Aegon. The war between Aegon and Dany will be dark).
Hm, fair enough. I can see where you're coming from. The series is heading to the final act, and while Theon is one of the series' most compelling characters, there's not much for him to do after TWOW. Perhaps he'll die an Isildur-style death, and end up near the sea, fulfilling his promise to Asha.
On the topic of Jaime, I'm very interested in where he's going. He's in the heart of the Riverlands plot right now, heading to whatever trap Lady Stoneheart has for him. I don't see Jaime nor Stoneheart dying in this confrontation, as they both have huge parts to play later on.
But I do worry for Brienne and Pod.
I would contest that Oberyn is not good.
Look at how he acts.
Sires bastards left and right and then pretty much takes them away from their mothers.
A woman cries, he slaps her around and then tells her daughter that she can either learn to be violent like him or stay with her mother and be weak.
I mean, yeah, in that fucked up world, you need to be ruthless to live when you're a noble, but Oberyn's just a plain old cunt.
Didn't he fuck some other noble's lover, then when fighting him in a duel he fought with poison that caused the other noble to die of some infection, which in turn had him exiled from Westeros for a while?
Yeah sorry, kinda forgotten about that. Had nostalgia goggles on and I'm in desperate need of a reread.
There's also some speculation that Oberyn started the Brave Companions company, which would make him one of the worst people alive for his responsibility in that thrill killing gang of cancer.
edit *not alive. one of the worst people in the history of Dorne I guess then.
>tbqh Dany is pretty high up because I completely buy the prediction that she's going to burn a bloody trail straight across Essos from Meereen to Pentos
Likewise. The damned alliance between Daenerys, the Dothraki, and Victarion will completely smash Yunkai. With Astapor going to the dogs, Yunkai being on the brink of destruction, and Meereen falling to the Bloody Flux, there isn't really any hope for Slaver's Bay.
They're going to head to Volantis next, because all roads lead through Volantis. Daenerys will have to confront her Valyrian heritage along with her hatred of the slave trade. Something horrible will go down there.
From there, I could see her going to some more Free Cities, but of course the main city she's heading to is Pentos. That will be where she confronts Illyrio about Aegon and the Golden Company. The Windblown will sack the city and the Tattered Prince will take Pentos as his. Illyrio will have his throat cut.
That will be the end for Daenerys's Essosi arc. From there, she heads to Westeros.
Who's the best character and why is it Ser Barristan Selmy, Lord Commander of the Queensguard.
Because he's Jaime's foil, and Jaime is also one of the best characters in the series.
>Jaime
>loyal
My brain bluescreened.
What are the most powerful moments in the series for you?
I really enjoyed:
>Robb and Catelyn's talk in Oldstones
>Brienne's duel at the Whispers
>Theon and Barbrey Dustin in the crypts beneath Winterfell
Holy shit. You're actually as dumb as I believed genre fags to be.
Ned's dream while in the Red Keep dungeon
Jaime burning Cersei's letter
Davos calling the Freys out on their bullshit
THE best
Reminder that Martin doesn't know what he's doing because he only had the plot figured out until ASOS, which is why the plot is a bloated mess.
I'm pretty sure he knows the skeleton of his plot, he just needs to fill in all the details and the journeys for everything to fall into place in a way he likes.
Hell, I'm one of the few that suspects TWOW is mostly finished, George is just rewriting parts of the book to polish it up.
>What plotlines and arcs are you most looking forward to?
I am looking forward to the arc where Bran gets good enough at warging to possess both Hodor and Summer at the same time and proceeds to double-penetrate Meera (Hodor in her cunt, Summer knotting her asshole) while a helpless Jojen watches on.
It's sure to be a fan favorite.
...
Lannister fucking shits BTFO
Reading the red wedding for the first time was crazy. So was oberyn vs the mountain
>Will it be published by the end of 2017?
Yes.
GRRM's first deadline was for Halloween 2015. Then for the New Year of 2016.
He failed both, of course, but he really thought he could reach the second one...until he realised that he still had to write some more.
This doesn't suggest he's years away from finishing, but it does suggest he's a few months. Take into account working with his editor, fixing up plots so everything falls neatly into place, making last-minute changes, it suggests the book will be out before Spring 2017.
great thread great board
Plot is shit, characters are one dimensional, go back to rêddit.
>People who are really into literature are generally pretty shitty
>People are being elitist and rightfully so :'(
This is how low Veeky Forums has fallen
>Plot is shit
ok, how?
>characters are one dimensional
ok, how?
i don't think you've read the books.
Convoluted mess of a plot and 100+ characters that are all the same and that I should care about for some reason when some inane "honor" struggle comes up.
web.archive.org
The same applies to the books^
Oh and of course I haven't read them all, why would I complete that trash?
It's like asking me to finish a meal that belongs in the garbage just to judge it.
I've read enough of it to judge.
I don't think you understood it. Maybe it's just not for you. Doesn't mean it's shit. Everyone's got an opinion. You just happen to dislike it. You're also in the minority. Doesn't make you wrong, of course.
As the center of my subjective experiencess I am the arbiter of anything involving myself.
Go ahead and eat your shit, I don't care, but don't come up to me with a shit-eating grin, call what you just ate "delicious", and then try to not only discuss your scar fetish with me, bug try to rope me into it.
By the way, the majority here feel that way, so we're telling you to go to with sincerity.
>not only discuss your scar fetish with me, bug try to rope me into it.
You don't need to post here at all. You decided to enter this thread and post in it, you decided to read the posts and try to make the thread about your opinion rather than discussing the series.
You could always leave this thread, hide it from the catalog, and talk about books you actually enjoy.
>You don't need to post here at all
Same could be said, and better said, for you: you're posting pulp on a literature board.
ASOIAF has been a part of Veeky Forums for years.
Hell, it's even recommended reading on the Veeky Forums wiki (a link recommended by the STICKY of all places)
4chanlit.wikia.com
Veeky Forums is a place of different tastes, it doesn't exist to only accommodate to yours
>ASOIAF has been a part of Veeky Forums for years.
It's always been bashed, and that page is only there because the recent influx of cancer from reddit and imgur that eventually led to the creation of the containment general.
Terry Pratchett was given a sticky that was collectively shat upon by Veeky Forums if you want to know the merits of the stickies.
If you're just trying to get the last reply then don't bother replying.
Have you seen that thing detailing all of the release dates and subsequent failures made for the last book? I'd be suprised if we got it before 2018.
I hope you're not right, but we'll see.
I just hope it's a GOOD book. If the story is great, if the character arcs are at their best, then maybe I can forgive the long wait.
So, I have a feeling that a big part of the later series, focusing on George's anti-war themes, will be about weapons of mass destruction and the carnage and destruction they can cause.
Obviously, we have dragons, the analogue for nuclear arms. Dany, and perhaps Euron, will be using these weapons and the result will be catastrophic.
But less obviously, I believe that there will be an analogue for biological warfare- either in one of two, or both, of the established diseases in the series – Greyscale, and The Pale Mare/Bloody Flux.
The Pale Mare is rampant throughout Meereen by now, and its possible Dany is afflicted. It will come into play. Similarly, Jon Connington is afflicted with greyscale, and has landed in Westeros.
I believe both of these will be used in the story, as it's the kind of thing George likes to write about. In many of his SciFi stories, he writes about nuclear fallout and the effects of biowar.
I'm curious how this will play out in ASOIAF though. I don't believe ASOIAF is SciFi, but I believe there will be SciFi elements played upon with a fantasy twist. Maybe biowar could be used by the Dothraki, akin to their inspiration, the Mongols (hurling corpses infected with the Black Death into cities they were sieging). Or perhaps we'll find out whatever caused the Others, or even the Doom of Valyria, is a result of some kind of ancient biowar.
This isn't even taking into account the role wildfire has to play, whatever might happen at Oldtown, or even the possibility of chemical warfare playing a part.
Who is the greatest example of 'evil' in the series?
I know its not much of an excuse, but I wouldn't think characters such as Joffrey, Ramsay or Gregor Clegane count since they all have various forms of mental illnesses and their violent, sadistic, unstable behaviours are a result of that.
I would argue Rorge, or possibly Vargo Hoat. They seem to be genuinely wicked people just because they can be, and they enjoy it. I don't think they're mentally ill, either. They go one step above the regular kind of murderer, and inflict devastating rape and destruction onto the Riverlands.
I just want Sansa and Dany to die.
I can understand Dany, why Sansa?
Because she's a plot device, and her chapters are taking up time that could be devoted to literally anyone else. I also find her annoying and fear that she might have too much plot armor to die.
>and her chapters are taking up time that could be devoted to literally anyone else
She's our window into Littlefinger though, who's a very key player of the political plot in the series.
I also find her becoming less annoying as the story goes on. Have you read the released Alayne chapter from TWoW?
>plot armor
It's possible, but I doubt it. Of all the Starks, Sansa is actually the most likely to die, since she was conceived as a character last. She was written into the story because GRRM thought the Starks needed some familial conflict, before her the entire family was getting along too much and "real families don't work that way".
I only see one Stark girl dying though. So if Sansa dies, Arya lives. And vice versa.
I haven't read any of the released chapters from TWoW because I figure they could change and I'll just read them when the book is released. I agree Sansa is slightly less annoying now, but she's still the least interesting pov. As long as Varys is alive, Littlefinger is impotent, and he mostly seems to bullshit his way through everything.
I see Theon dying to help his true family, via Rickon or Sansa, maybe Bran.
Jaime is definitely surviving his run-in with LSH. I'm worried about Brienne, too, but I think the BwB will force her into some kind of dilemma/morally difficult quest. Her character and AFFC/ADWD arc is too close to the core idea of the story (keeping to a moral in the face of hardship) right as that idea is being put to its final test.
I think her worst/most violent actions will take place in Yunkai and Pentos, what with Yunkai being the chief traitors/opponents and Illyrio manipulating her from the beginning. And both cities best represent the corruption and ill-gotten wealth of Essos, what with Astapor already fallen and Volantis having a majority slave population (and the city has been from the populist/servant side more than the elitist/master - our POVs walk the streets and see the strife, and only hear about the Old Blood secluded behind the Black Walls). Volantis will fall to a slave uprising. It'll be as bloody as Astapor, but maybe not as much of a mark on Dany's character.
Not counting them because of mental illness is a copout. As far as we can tell, Gregor suffers from gigantism and migraines, which causes him a great deal of pain that he needs to medicate. This isn't a reason to murder and rape. And with all of these characters, GRRM offers histories that make it clear the influence of whatever conditions they have was channelled through circumstance: however much Gregor's headaches made him what he is, he was equally shaped by his upbringing, which in turn was affected by his physical size, which changed his position in society. Highly valued as a soldier, relied on by his family to improve their station, rewarded for killing people, excused for doing so brutally on account of his worth. They become who they are as a result of many factors, most out of their control, but this is the case for all characters.
Yes, they were raised with worse teachings than, say, Robb and Jon. But patterns can be broken and upbringing can be overcome. It's difficult, and that difficulty is what makes some dubious characters capable of heroism when they succeed: Tyrion, Theon, Jaime, and so on. Davos was born to a difficult position that lead him to a life of crime. And then he risked his life to save Stannis and his people, and went on to be good by doing good, breaking rules and risking his life to save others and stop evildoers, or even just to speak out against them, all while being discouraged by his surroundings and told to accept, condone, imitate.
Ramsay, meanwhile, continues to prove himself monstrously evil. We can weep for what the child Ramsay could have been, but Ramsay the man has bought into everything he was taught. Yeah, he's unusually cruel, but so is Roose. I don't think Ramsay is meant to be viewed as a psychotic anomaly, but the worst example of something common, otherwise exhibited by Roose, Tywin, Littlefinger, etc.
It'll be 1000 pages of the more he drank the more he shat.
Game of Thrones
Wyman Manderly, "The North remembers"
Septon Meribald, "Broken men"
"Tywin Lannister did not, in fact, shit gold."
Will we find out what's in the crypts beneath Winterfell?
Guess we're here now
Remember when he said that ADWD would be released a year after AFFC
Don't believe his lies
Will Ramsay die in the Battle of Ice?
To be completely honest man, it sounds to me like you wouldn't have much to do if you didn't have this stuff around to whine about.
The really fucked up part of Baelor freeing Aemon was that he was just in a normal cell when Baelor was headed to negotiate a peace deal then on the way back the lord moved him into a cage in the pit. The Kingsgaurd was also his Cousin Aemon and son of his hand of the king Viserys.
I agree. It's the same thing with John Green shitposting. These authors fill niche markets, and have done well enough to be popular, they don't really give a fuck about being literary.
George likes writing about loneliness and the conflict within the human heart. He dabbles in other philosophical thoughts but he's no philosopher, he's no visionary, he's nowhere near the greats and geniuses of literature, and I'm pretty sure he knows that and so do his fans. But he is a man with a good imagination, and is an excellent storyteller. His worlds and characters feel rich and vivid and real. For that I think he deserves some respect, if anything else. Certainly doesn't deserve to be bashed for it.
>Euron got a LOT more interesting. Really want to see where he goes from here.
Burned to a crispy by Danny's dragons after failing to marry her and take control of her dragons.
Also his horn is fake and Vic explodes because of it.
Regarding danny, the book and the finale of the last season is pretty much the same formation. Euron is being outplayed by the tyrell.
Things to be looking forward: jon ressurection (white hair, purple right eye) and melissandre burns shireen to bring him back, and the brutalization/reekfication of Ramsay.
Believe me or not, i don't give a fuck. The core is pretty much done for years now. It feels like a love letter to stark fans, retribution. Lots of direwolf action like the freys being devoured by nymeria and her pack of 10k wolves.
>plotlines/arcs
I can't wait for Stannis to bust through the snow and cuck the Boltons and Quentyn to initiate the next step in the dragon plan. Also more Jaime is always good.
>theories
The Dornish are behind virtually everything and Doran operates on a level several degrees higher than Twyin ever did when it comes to scheming.
Also I'm one of the memelords that believes that Robin Arryn has magic abilities like Bran. The only explanations I accept for his behaviour are magic mind-fuckery or that he's full-blown insane, but I think that would be a bit boring.
>sample chapters
no
>who will die
I think CIA is a fair chance, he's been scheming too many people too hard to last forever.
He's attacking old town. Due to the oily, black stone present in it's labyrinth, the vast accumulation of knowledge present there and allusions to the frogmen, it could be interesting.
Other speculation includes him becoming a new night King and using kraken.
Actually, ive found his usage of symmetry, tension, horror, dramatic irony and imagery quite excellent.
His restraint in normal prose means that for drugged prose, visions and inhuman narration, he's able to make his work that muchore dreamy and disconnected.
Along with this, his metaphorical imagery is some of the best I've ever seen. His characters are also quite nice in how each had a very different voice and how their viewpoint changes the narration; no better is this seen then with people like Roose Bolton, who just comes across as a bit weird with Robb and Cate before he'd truly unveiled and Jaime who becomes immensely sympathetic once the viewpoint is put behind his eyes.
Plus, nice character development.
He sees the red God as a means to an end.
Likely what happens is he had his three slaves blow the horn and the horn, blood bound to Euron, causes the dragon to go to him.
Why do people say he's a good storyteller if he never seems to wrap up a story properly? I thought he was using character deaths as a way of not having to write a real character arc.
The Broken men.
We both wanted to be Starks.
When the sun sets in the East.
Did not shit gold.
Also, the last You Know Nothing and the first Promise Me Ned.
It's a saga. This is like half reading Beowulf.
