Trump's rhetoric

>is Trump a master of rhetoric and persuasion?
no, he hires people who are masters of rhetoric and persuasion to tell him what to say to get what he wants.

he's a master businessman, his only real skill is hiring people with skill.

That's a fake quote btw

I tthink you mean
>(((giant hidden force)))

shh I'm a master of rhetoric

He's so good at it that intellectuals dismiss it, claiming he's just a stupid fool who shouts and screams, which he does - too, it's just that he clearly is playing a lot of games that has taken him this far.

To be fair, criticizing Trump at this point is effectively shilling for Hillary.

Just imagine how hard Bernie would have wrecked him if the DNC weren't so corrupt.

Yeah, just like he wrecked those black lives matter people who took the microphone out of his hands

I posted it on here because Veeky Forums is concerned with language, and Trump's language is worthy of attention.

"I love X. X did a wonderful job with Y. Fantastic job. X is great, wonderful people. I have a fantastic relationship with X, they love me."

"Look, I know these people, and X is stupid. He's doing everything wrong over there, look at him [impersonates X]. I mean, give me a break folks, is this really who we have in charge? X?! I know how to make deals, and let me tell you, I would never, ever have let something as incompetent as Y happen."

"We're gonna make America great again. America is wonderful. 100,000 miles but isn't she a beauty? She'll get you from Niagara to Key West in the middle of summer and you won't even notice the heat. Brand new compressor. Beautiful isn't it? Look at that compressor. That's a leather interior, would look fantastic on a roadtrip or a commute. You from around here? Say I can get you a great deal. I know these people, they love me. We're good honest people here. We sell a fantastic product at a competitive price. It's a great price. We're gonna make you great again."

I still don't think it was a bad idea to let them do that.

Just how smart is this man, really?

He predicted Ted Cruz's betrayal. Ted Cruz actually delivered a much different speech than the one he gave to the RNC beforehand. Not only that, despite the outcry of plagiarism regarding his wife's speech, she had a 10% favorability increase.

They're bad people user. You can't just cave to bad people like that.

This is something we should pay attention to regarding Trump. I think he's definitely trying to appeal to the "All my political experience comes from watching debates when they interrupt my show" crowd with stuff like this.

Nah I was watching some clips of him in the 90s and 80s. He's been saying the same shit for years.

He has a kind of charm to him, but it's the charm of a businessman for sure.

Reminds me a lot of Easy Andy, the gun salesman from Taxi Driver.

youtube.com/watch?v=9SXq1yFrqsI

>They're bad people user. You can't just cave to bad people like that.
I don't like them myself, but coming on too strong against them could have and would have been used as ammo against him by the media and Clinton superpacs saying he's not as progressive as he claims, whereas that wouldn't apply to him attacking Trump. He would've absolutely massacred Trump in the general, and polls bear that out. I'm voting for Trump now tho, btw.

I'm actually really interested in simple, powerful rhetoric. Anyone have any good readings for this? Or other examples of this kind of thing?

>"as if you're dumb enough to put a round in the chamber..."

always loved that line. Classic sales technique.

...

The Art of Deal

No, he's a moron whose rhetoric is utter pap to anyone minus idiots and contraries. His 'prestige' is enough for a chunk of people to respect him and thus same dumb chunk are susceptible to lines like: 'I love security, believe me security is great and I'm great at making it'

Master of rhetoric with shit like this? Is that the level of respect you have for the discipline of rhetoric? He speaks to angry, dumb, Americans who have bad lives and need to vent. It just happens that there are a lot of them

>He speaks to angry, dumb, Americans who have bad lives and need to vent. It just happens that there are a lot of them
The ironing.

strunk and white elements of style, bro

or just read about active voice

yeah actually reading about active voice is p much all u need to get started

that and noun types

what's wrong with putting a round in the chamber?

>strunk and white elements of style, bro
>or just read about active voice
This is exactly why Strunk and White is one of the shittiest books. You unironically think passive voice is not rhetorically powerful. Crazy world.

This desu. He basically applied "marketing for plebs and gambling junkies" to politics. He identified the stupidest audience (poor white people, dyed in the wool racists, and old people) and played to their greatest fears using extremely simple language. People calling him stupid or "Hitler" have not truly observed him in action. I would say he may be one of the greatest rhetoricians since the 40s.

>he's a master businessman, his only real skill is hiring people with skill.

This and the conservative supreme court pick is probably why I will vote for him, Hillary is an inhuman monster that has been directly involved in every conflict since Somalia.

You can't criticize both?

Not being buried neck deep in the anus of two party politics is unpatriotic.

I'm a pretty good rhetorician tbqh
put forward a pretty anti-semitic argument at uni and the tutor thought it was brilliant

Well, I guess it's time I start being patriotic.

I'm no good at multitasking, trying to post and do other shit got me all turned around.

>This and the conservative supreme court pick is probably why I will vote for him, Hillary is an inhuman monster that has been directly involved in every conflict since Somalia.
I also dislike Hillary and am not voting for her, but let's not pretend that Trump would be humanitarian internationally. You think the dude who wants a Muslim registry at home is not going to wreak the same havoc our government has been for decades?

as someone who is fairly right wing and anti-Islam (though I don't want Trump to win), I have absolutely no desire to be involved in the Middle East outside of righting the wrongs against Assad and Iran

I also would like us to pull out from that area for the most part, though I'm a leftist. We've been stoking the problem areas of that region for decades because of interventionist and imperialist policies, and Clinton would just continue it -- as I think Trump would, as well.

>Veeky Forums is Trump a master of rhetoric and persuasion?
If you're a fucking moron, yes. Hence, he'll be the next el presidente.

Trump has been quite open about his isolationism though
I doubt he would fully exit the region but Hillary (who is openly hostile to Russia) would be far more interventionist
if Trump was fully behind Assad I would back him (though I'm no American so it doesn't matter)
I think Trump will win though

I hate all of you.

It has been enjoyable seeing the pseudo intellectual New Yorker / WaPo crowd being repulsed by his rejection of cheap signs if intellectual and cultural capital.

Also Ted Cruz is basically as smart as it gets in the humanities / law / politics section of society and was a champion debater. He's like a much smarter Obama and would have his dick sucked six ways to Sunday by the same old NYT / Veeky Forums pseuds if he was a Democrat. But what's amusing is that 1. Despite his background he acts like a conservative caricature. 2. Despite his formal credentials and debate experience he was embarrassed by Trump in the debates

Further proof that reading is gay, bookfags blown the h*ck out

do you know what the point of rhetoric is?

>All his speeches sound like they were written by Holden Caulfield
>Great rhetorician
>Trust fund kiddie with 4 bankruptcies
>Master businessman

The worst thing is that all criticism bounces right off of him because his people then just assume you're a democrat stooge. We've somehow created an even more fact-proof politic than we've managed in quite some time

It's weird to me how Ted is by all accounts incredibly smart yet led such a terrible campaign

Most intelligent post ITT

Maybe, but I really don't think politics should be about rhetoric and persuasion. I feel as though the role of president should be based on a candidates functional ability to discern the population's concerns, and resolving the country's issues. I think academic intelligence, problem solving and pragmatism are key attributes of a good president. I do not think a good rhetorician makes a good leader. I am very concerned for America and the current state of western democracy.

how do you explain his unprecedented and historic success if not for his rhetoric?

>tripfag

>I am very concerned for America and the current state of western democracy.
both are dead in the water
Exit soon brothers

Actually blacks are the stupidest, which is why they all voted for Clinton and are the reason she won

You can but you have to balance it out perfectly or else you'll be net shilling for one or the other.

how did ted run a bad campaign. he's revolting, physiologically, yet finished second.

he lost badly despite having every advantage
>he's revolting, physiologically
this is true for most politicians, especially Hillary

Imagine how hard this guy who has demonstrated repeatedly he had no gumption or ferocity and fell at the first hurdle would've wrecked a man who has dominated everyone and everything he's encountered. It's a crazy thought.

Bernie couldn't or wouldn't even bring the fire against Hillary in the debates. You need to start owning up to the fact that Bernie Sanders is either a feeble old man who talks of integrity but doesn't practice it or he's literally controlled opposition intended to lead the youth vote to Hillary.

It's unfortunate. /pol/ is so infested with shills these days that they get defensive very quickly, and it really hurts discussion when trying to legit criticize it debate something. Hopefully things will calm down after the election.

But considering all the happenings recently, I find that doubtful.

This is a terrifying time to be alive in the US. I can understand perfectly that people here may not like Hilary, but supporting a person who has said things like that the best way to deal with our national debt is to simply not pay it is just astoundingly suicidal and ignorant of the basic way an economy and nation is supposed to function. This board is supposed to be about literature, and there are people in this very thread talking about how they would vote for a guy who has said he would like to have the people writing disparaging this about him murdered. Fuck.

things*

Yes and no. He's been very good at convincing the generally under-participating, anti-social, or otherwise pessimistically uninterested group of the right in this country.
But truly good rhetoricians can persuade people who ideologically oppose them-- Trump has not done this whatsoever, he's produced the opposite effect where those opposed instead become even more opposed.
Though, again, within his own base, it's incredible. He doesn't have the greatest control over language, but he's instead able to persuade his followers just through mere attitude-- he doesn't have any single ideology or policy program aside from the idea of nationalism, exceptionalism, and a new sociopolitical authority. (Our New Better Control instead of Them, he just constantly redefines his Out groups, and it's been really effective)

Trump is instead a fantastic example of finding an under-utilized niche and exploiting it to the max. It's a lot less Trump using own rhetorical ability to construct a new playing field and political group, and more of him just taking advantage of a unexploited void, if that makes any sense.

I don't think anyone really knows. There aren't many (if any) independent journalists who've been able to really study him up-close.

Yeah, this is the same shit ancient Greece went through. Though unlike us, they'd oust anyone too good at rhetoric, in fear of exactly this

the world works very differently to how you think it does
p.s. journalists are scum and I'd gladly see their brains used to paint the wall

>4 bankruptcies =bad business

We got a Bernie guy
Bankruptcy happens all the time comrade

I think he's the logical conclusion of the media and blogosphere rhetoric over the past decade or so. People have been whipped into such a frenzy by hearing every single week about how the latest policy proposal it literally going to strip away all rights and impose martial law or otherwise end America. Talk radio has been preparing their listeners for Obama's impending full communism for something like 8 years now, because in that narrative Western Governments have been hijacked by a cabal of super-villains.
Now people are surprised that the clean cut, well spoken establishment types have been rejected, because the establishment wanted to pretend that people will calm right down and vote them right in and everything will go back to the early Bush years or something to that effect.
Trump wins with the crowd that's been listening to the apocalyptic narrative for 8 years because he's willing to say "I will break all the rules and save you". He doesn't need policy, rationale, or eloquence to capitalize on the fact that he's the only candidate who claims to be prepared to deal with the hellscape version of America that talk radio/political blog/(to a lesser extent)TV News have been shown day in day out for years

>le bankruptcy maymay
And you wonder why nobody takes Trump "critics" seriously when your fallbacks are the same old, stale, thoroughly debunked talking points every time.

Yea all the other candidates totally planned to pay the national debt.

>just don't say it out loud

>Bankruptcy happens all the time comrade
Not the same guy, to bad businessmen, sure. Michael Bloomberg has never gone into bankruptcy

Yep, the only thread I go to on /pol/ now is Britpol threads, and happening threads, which are nearly weekly now

If he were the nominee, he would win entirely on policy. Crazy idea, I know, but it's true.

a thread about trump is like a beacon for /pol/tards. This will reveal the extent of their numbers. Expect hundreds of replies

People realize he's a much bigger piece of shit than Trump.

Yeah, it sure sucks to be a leftist on Veeky Forums these days. Can't say anything without being painted a shill, cuck, WUZ, or whatever else. Veeky Forums hivemind has finally become a thing , I guess

but Republicans have always appealed to that anxiety
you're kidding yourself if you think his rhetoric isn't brilliant
>but it doesn't appeal to the pseuds that read WaPo
it doesn't matter, he's not trying to

This is how all politicians speak. Everyones ears are perking up now for some reason, acting like they've fucking figured it out with Trump

>Cicero of our age

Goddam you are such a retard
Trump and Cicero are fucking different both in life and in rhetorical devices
Do you even read?

/pol/ is shit for right wing discussion as well

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. What Trump has suggested is that we simply decline to pay back our national debt. Just shrug our shoulders and say, "sorry, we are not paying our debts. As of now, we owe you nothing." Which is absolutely unprecedented in the history of the US government. Ever since George Washington the U.S. borrowing system has worked under the assurance to our loaner countries that we will pay back all of what we have borrowed. This assurance is what has allowed the U.S. to borrow and trade funds at a interest rate far lower than other nations, and has been a large contributing factor to our economic primacy over the last half century. If we declined to pay these debts, as Trump proposes, those interest rates would skyrocket and we would be plunged into a massive economic recession. None of that is partisanship. These are absolutely basic economic precepts.

I'm saying that he's a more extreme result of a more extreme pandering to those anxieties.
There's probably an element of tech-driven social curation making it more notable as well

This. Dude's a disaster.

There's always been a Veeky Forums hivemind. But the main reason there isn't much of a left-wing presence here atm is because you cucks are too pussy to spam memes

but Trump isn't just a more extreme Republican, he's taking the party in a completely different direction

people don't care what left and right really mean anymore. In fact, I don't think people ever fully understood what they meant beyond the most basic 'liberal vs conservative' squabble. Arguments against each side are like arguments for football teams- it's just slander by association. Trump is bad, therefore republicans are bad. Hilary is bad, therefore democrats are bad. No one looks at the arguments or the beliefs, just the representatives.

Bill gates has filed for bankruptcy before

Is he a bad business man?

America is an unfixable mess either way
Hillary would do a better job of destroying it though which is why I want her to win

he's a tech geek who hit it big

Nah, Donald Trump is going to make America great again. Just give him a chance.

Every country knows we are not paying our debt. Nixon said we wouldn't when he made his "Keynes" speech. Going away from gold was effectively robbing all those countries. And when we were supposed to pay back anything (sept 12,2001). All of a sudden we couldnt

he'll put off the inevitable for 10 years at best

3rd year in a row richest man
Donates to charity
Has many business ventures

>he just "hit it big"

Do you write for Forbes?

Neither Trump nor Hillary is going to destroy the country.

America can't get out of deficit let alone pay back it's near unfathomable debts

I think this issue is Trump has both said, "I'm a business man, bankruptcy was a smart business move," and, "We have to run this country like a business, and I'm your guy."

But you can't bankrupt a country

Just pointing out issue with this point. This sort of logical and rhetorical inconsistency is what generally concerns me with trump, aside from the brazen discriminatory language and constant talk of "Law and Order," and "revitalizing our military."

fuck muslims

>country is $19 trillion in debt
>guys I'm scared trump is gonna bankrupt the country

Hilary and obamas rhetoric supporting black lives matter hate for cops has led to more direct deaths

you're not getting it my man
America is already bankrupt