Will this be on the test?

>will this be on the test?
>why do I need to know this?
>ugh math
>wow this is so hard

Why do undergrads say these things? Has high school ruined their minds?

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>op doesn't remember himself in his freshman years

People tend to develop a distaste for something if they are forced to do it, and force is the chief method of public schooling. That's probably why the majority of the population has no interest in learning anything ever again - public schools have killed most of their natural curiosity by making them associate learning with a loathsome, boring experience.

Considering all the drugs you do during your freshman year, it's hardly surprising

>didn't do drugs on my freshman year
>have clear memory of myself as a freshman
>mfw

>brainlets are made and not born, it's the SYSTEM'S fault they're simpletons without any intellectual curiosity
when will this meme die?

>le blame society meme
yup, their shitty parents dindu nuffin wrong

>when will this meme die?

When you educate yourself

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I was invested in my subject because I fucking love what I do and enjoy learning in general.

yeah whatever i'm not reading that shit you're very naive if you think the only thing separating us from a society where everyone is a philosopher king is reforms to the education system

Yes, let's keep the current system which encourages "winning" at all costs in high school and college (i.e. cheating at all costs) with shit like SAT test preparation instead of at least attempting to instill in people genuine love of learning.

It's because most highschool teachers don't understand how to teach the purpose and intuition behind the rigor they are presenting. To the naive mind, it looks like useless shit you can do with numbers until you learn calculus.

I remember when I took pre-calc in highschool, the first day I asked my teacher what calculus was, and she preceded to bore me with a 10 minute explanation about shit I didn't understand yet like limits and integration. I asked a better teacher, and all he had to say was "it's the study of how functions change" and I got it.

Now, after taking 3 years of college level Calculus, I still find his explanation more accurate and helpful than hers.

I hate the be the memester shifting responsibility away from oneself, but really, most primary education teachers don't know how to teach math. I actually understand the shit I learn now, instead of just regurgitating rigor to show my "comprehension" of a subject.

>Engineer detected.

>attempting to instill in people genuine love of learning.
ever consider the majority of people won't give a shit about anything beyond spectator sports and reality tv no matter what you do?

radical idea I know.

if "the system" is so good at supposedly beating curiosity out of people how come a minority very obviously retain it and do all kinds of reading behind what the high school curriculum calls for? its almost as if they're immune or something...

>Has high school ruined their minds?
it certainly didn't help, that's for sure. my mind included.

>how come a minority very obviously retain it and do all kinds of reading behind what the high school curriculum calls for? its almost as if they're immune or something..

Because there will always be a minority of people who manage to find themselves an comfortable zone in bad places. Hell, there's a minority of soldiers that actually enjoy war.

But there are plenty of students who might have done a lot better if they didn't hate going to high school with all their heart and soul due to the any one of the almost infinite things there that can make people miserable.

Nobody is forced to go to university. Culturally inclined, sure, I'll give you that.

probably because they don't have the will to learn. i've always loved learning math, so i excelled in it and eventually got a related major. but i absolutely loathed things like english and history so i avoided them as much as possible.

/thread

>ITT: homeschooled brainlets who think they are better than everybody else simply because they never ever had to compare themselves to other people in a context such as college

well look at you

>be me
>see math profesor
>ask him "hey, is that GUCCI your wearing?"
>the man DECKED OUT in GUCCI sweater, pants COMBO
>profesor say "yeah, summer 2014 collection"
>mfw

lmfaoooo

I had this problem.
>Homeschooled whole life
>Mom only teaches me things I'm good at or are easy so that she can reaffirm to herself that her kids are all geniuses
>ADD, but unmedicated because "drugs are evil and only hurt people"
>Middle school understanding of math starting college, couldn't even do basic algebra
>Mom tells me it's the teacher's fault I'm not getting As in trig
Took me three years of school to realize i may be smart, but I'm not God's gift to humanity.
>Swapped my major from my liberal arts degree that I took because it was easy and i could get good grades to a STEM degree
>Brothers (also homeschooled) constantly complain about teachers and their peers being the reason they're not honor students
>Constantly complain that everyone else is an idiot except them and everyone should agree with them on everything, political, science related (e.g. evolution isn't true,) etc.

Sorry for the rant, anyone else know this feel though?

Public education has nothing to do with it.

The best determiner of a student's outcome is their parents.

I'm not blaming society or "the system", I'm just pointing out that the one-size-fits-all educational philosophy and punitive methods used in compulsory public schools do not produce graduates who see the value in learning. It produces graduates who are thinking, "my god, I'm glad that shit is over; I'm never learning anything again!"

Nobody's "forced" to get a job, either, but people don't seem to find the other option appealing for some reason.

In the modern environment in many countries, if you want a job, you essentially need a college degree. Again, it's not a law of physics or anything, but the landscape for jobs for those without degrees is much, much worse.

My Mom had the good sense to put me in public school from 6th grade on up. Also ADD but unmedicated (and nobody bothered to tell me), mostly because they didn't want to label me and were hoping I'd work out coping skills on my own.

But things ended up roughly similar, since I was smart enough in high school that I never needed to learn the coping skills, and so as soon as I needed them upon entered college everything blew up in my face and my ego hit a wall at relativistic velocities.

Should i tell my engineering students that i was a business/commerce major in my undergrad? I\m not sure how they'd react

I fucking hate math. I wish I could just skip the boring garbage and get my degree. Why do I need it for medschool?

The only thing that kept me from keeping a 4.0 was math in high school and currently in college. How could anybody find it interesting? It just goes in your head and out the other after you're done using it for a test.

different strokes for different folks. i've always found math super interesting.

>When your med school only requires trig based physics, no math
I can't get to my reaction images folder right now, please picture a smug anime girl. Thanks.

Public school isn't trying to create academics, poets, authors, statesmen, lawyers, mathematics, or scientists. Public schools exist to create literate unambitious cogs that will work for the least wages and be grateful for the scraps.

American Academia, and frankly, worldwide academia, has become anemic in its rigor due to the unwashed masses being shuffled in. This happens because of the desire to create a large class of heavily indebted people, and by tying even low-class employment to a degree you force people who should study a trade to take on a hundred thousand dollars of debt.

Most modern Universities are just year-long summer camps. You could stumble drunk from class to class and as long as a student attends they will pass with a C.

>Why do undergrads say these things?
bcoz intellectually lazy and disengaged

Then why do "upper-class" people cheat so much in high school and university?

They certainly haven't picked up any love of learning.

They aren't upper-class, the people you think of as upper-class just sit in the mass of bureaucrats who administrate for the actual owners.

The owners generally do value education for themselves and their offspring no matter what you might have experienced. Small portions of any group will have deranged behavior but that is not indicative of the whole.

>3 years of calculus

I hope you mean semesters

Some universities label all mathecourses that involve anything with calculus as calculus. My nephew goes to a university that has a calculus 6...

Do you think every person who has earned a graduate degree in math was intellectually lazy and disengaged while studying at the undergrad level?

They see the black science man talking about all that cool shit and then they realize that it's not as simple as it seems.

How did you get taught math? As a bunch of tricks or by learning how to show those things to be true?

...

Zahia bruh.
She used to be a whore for the French football team.

thanks man

>brainlets are made and not born
actually yeah. i think all people are born with immense curiosity (if not intelligence). that curiosity can be shaped into a higher intellect if encouraged by outer factors or slowly disappear because of a bad education (education that comes from parents, teachers, etc.) and yeah the education system worldwide in general is pretty much obsolete and really contributes to the creation of mindless human beings. of course there is free will to learn and understand so i don't solely blame the "system", but it is completely logical that if all systems in which the youth is raised into (starting with Family and Educational Institutions. then """Media"""" outlets in general) fail in encouraging creativity and The Will To Learn and love for knowledge then WHAT'S UP with that?
this is a reality dude......
parents = part of society
this could be a real thing but it also couldn't
maybe if we weren't forced to fit into these super narrow molds promoted and reinforced and Embraced over and over again by The System (that we all conform but not as active controllers of it because no political economic power) people would behave more genuinely and would be more natural and true to themselves and then that way we all would know what's the truth about human behavior but we don't know becos education systems and the SYSTEM are, in fact, ridiculous

I got to experience two different high school environments and my brother has been a history teacher for over a year and student taught at 2 different high school environments. I can say with a lot of assurance that it is indeed the public education system

First HS
>Borderline prison
>Uniforms
>Walking the hall to take a piss warrants a borderline strip search by any patrolling admins
>Like 30 people to a teacher
>Teachers taught so everyone gets a C so they can fuck off and go home
>Middle of the pack HS in NC with no crime issues

Second HS
>No uniforms
>Building is a restructured shipping warehouse
>Admins assume that if you're out of the room there's a reason
>Can leave school grounds for lunch when 16
>15-20/teacher
>Heavy encouragement to go for what you're good at be it arts, sciences, or trade work since we had high level courses for all
>Teachers tried to teach to the best of their abilities
>School had about the same budget as 1st

Brothers teaching experience
>Students come in with an unwillingness to learn
>Have a deep disdain for school day 1
>Have to borderline beat them mafia style to get them to do work
>Half have a reading level 3 tiers behind
>Students only concerned with what would be on the test
>Students who come from rich families cheat like crazy and talk all this good shit how they'll become great doctors
>Students who actually want to learn are usually the same kind of autists you'll find on sci and are the subjects to bullying due to 0 social skills
>Brother constantly fears one of them will go full Columbine since this is NC and everyone has a gun except for him and the other teachers

Try coming out of that actually giving a fuck and with a stable mind.

High school didn't make me dumb, but it did give me very poor study habits. I had difficulty effectively studying for exams at university because I never really learned how taking dumb dick bare minimum classes in high school.

For me the bigger problem with undergraduates is not the entitlement, but how fucking shit awful they are at writing. Clearly from this post you can tell I'm no wordsmith, but I grade papers where sentences end without punctuation, words are made up, sentences with no subject, and that's only considering what is legible.

>will this be on the test?
whats wrong with that?

>Students who come from rich families cheat like crazy and talk all this good shit how they'll become great doctors

A system that encourages winning is ideal to engage our primal instincts to be dominant. It's better than a system that encourages teaching people to derive meaning from it because some people simply won't derive meaning from the concepts.

even worse:
>be me in calc 2
>teacher puts problem on board that encourages rigorous application of concepts and introduces how concepts work together
>student sitting next to me shouts "gross"

It's not as bad once you get past compulsory classes for normie majors like calculus and introductory courses.

... Unless you're in engineering/pre-med.

Some people are just born unintelligent (brainlets) or uninterested in academia (brainlets).

Does NOT mean we should exterminate them or at least put them in work camps.