Just a reminder that even rich Hollywood stars get sent to jail for tax avoidance...

>sovereign
>citizen
choose one

anyone that gets sucked into that obvious honeypot needs to do better research with better keywords :^)

>freeman
>on
>the
>land

The IRS has much better technology now retard.
They even get data from the NSA's spy grid now.

yeah no shit the surveillance state is all pervasive
>They even get data from the NSA's spy grid now
kek, really?
Who could have known?
post snowden
post manning
post echelon
post five eyes
you dont say.

kek
gb2facebook where your scare tactics might actually work

Scare tactics kek. What are you scared of if you already know all of that?

Why would it cost thousands? The exchanges are literally giving the IRS details on every single trade.

Good point. Why be scared?

Hollywood stars are prime targets since they always flaunt their wealth and are a target by the government due to their social influence. The government doesn't care about a NEET that cashes out 5/low 6 figures.

This your 5th tax fud thread tonight?

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Why do you queers keep posting about taxes? It's not due for another month. We'll be into another bull by then, anyway.

It's extremely easy to avoid paying taxes on crypto

do tell, faggot

>buy things with crypto
>sell them for cash

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I thought /biz was all P&Ders and pajeets. We need more folks like this guy from pol who actually know shit, not the little kids we have now.

avoid exchanges, credit card transactions and you're done

Post some thots, save Veeky Forums from plebbit normies.
The board culture that led to insiders has been raped for a while now. I am sorry if this offends /lgbt/. But they are part of the problem ;^)

someone i know personally plans on cashing out to gold bullion and then if they ever need fiat selling locally. fuck the tax man

What's with all the tax BS recently on this board, who the hell says were cashing out kek.

I hope they come after me to pay me the tax I am owed because I'm below my initial investment.

The only thing they could pin to al Capone was tax evasion
IRS is no joke, just pay

why do you buttcoiners sound so salty all the time it's so odd, it's like radiating from the letters or something.

Good luck on more than 10K in bullion. The places that convert crypto to bullion follow the same rules as they have to, selling commercially. And, bullion traders HAVE to have you fill out a form for orders over a certain size. You can thank the shithead muslim terrorists for that, the Feds and the governments of other countries are way up bullion dealer's asses because of their shit.

Every single person on here who thinks they have it figured out, is going to get cornholed dry if they try to launder more than 10k. The public isn't even sure of what the governments have in place to track money, especially across borders, but hurr derrr, right, kiddies?

I'm gonna laugh every time there's a story of a fat pasty skinned neet being frogmarched in an orange jumpsuit, arrested tax evasion and fraud.

lel when I was in highschool they made us read this book "man without a country" and the teachers pretty much said if we don't like American laws and lifestyle that means we don't want to be american citizens that means we belong drowned in the ocean.

vote with your feet
aka leave if you dont like it

>cashing in crypto for FIAT
oh i am laffin

You know they do a full IRS audit on you before they decide if you are allowed to renounce your citizenship or not.

and how is the IRS going to audit your crypto stack?

ever traded on any us exchange ?
EVER ?

>the only exchanges that exist are US
>the only exchanges that exist require id
>the only exchanges that exist are centralised
>the only way to get crypto is though an exchange
>you MUST give yourself up

thanks for the window into a statists mind user

Right because when you first got into crypto, you just bought all of it off a decentralized exchange right ? You never became part of the system. no one ever bought their first crypto off of Gen or Coinbase...
Please let us know what exchanges have the volume and don't report to Know your Customer ?

oh shit you just rekt that faggot so hard

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>Just a reminder that even rich Hollywood stars get sent to jail for tax avoidance.

No they dont. And not only that even if they did they would be fucked. It doesnt matter how good the tech is. They wont be getting the money because they wont have access to it.

>please spoonfeed us because we're out of our depth in this new economic environment and are dedicated to keeping the illusion of our jurisdiction alive
maybe no, hmm?
What's it say when an impartial observer that pays attention is able to run circles around obvious tax shills without even having to experience any of it?
kek

kek you sound like a taxcuck waving his dick about how I've fucked myself when in reality all I am doing is asking questions ;^)
Or maybe I am too much of a pessimist

>Every single person on here who thinks they have it figured out, is going to get cornholed dry if they try to launder more than 10k.

No they are not. And on top of that the IRS is powerless in this situation. They are going to flail around in panic mode for a few years and clamp down on innocent people and destroy lives and gain little to nothing for it while the only people who are punished are the honest ones.

Anyone wanna chime in on my implications?

Bought around 1.8BTC-- accumulated @ various prices. Sold on coinbase at a loss(2-3%) and bought ethereum.

Moved eth to bittrex-- and ultimately traded around and wound up back at square one--- 1.8BTC.

That's what I have today.

If I were to cash out, is there anyway to wind up fucked? Or would I only be liable for the gains I've made from BTC $ Increase?

Tl;dr--- Bought 1.8BTC. Traded into other coins, to no great gain-- typically loss.

Today i own 1.8BTC-- What could I get fucked by?

They cant audit your stack though. its not possible without using torture techniques on people with memorized keys.

yeah I am sure that would go down well with the mainstream

>IRS torturing citizens for their private keys
that would probably lead to the dissolution of the IRS into smaller, specialised departments ;^)

Yeah whatever man. Bittrex is 100% compliant as per the rules of Washington State. Any exchange that is Available in Washington State or New york State is reporting to the IRS. FACT.
So let's go back 2 years. Where did you buy your ETH or BTC ? Coinbase, Circle, Genesis, Bittrex, Kraken..

ALL REPORT IP's.. So yeah once you are in you can move to decentralized exchnages BUT they have no volume. Bitshares, openledger and Waves were about all that existed a year ago.. So how did 99% of the people trade ? On centralized exchanges that report to the IRS.

They don't have to audit your stack. You do understand that the IRS is different than all US law. You are guilty until proven innocent. They don't have to prove shit. You do.

>foreign exchanges
>reporting to IRS

Apart from the fact that taxes make up a huge part of consumer good prices, the tax thieves tend to go after the larger fish where I live in Eastern Europe. Still, even if you're in America/W.Europe, I think you'd have to be a brain-dead willing slave to let yourself be extorted from. I've seen people on this board say they will report each trade they ever made on an overseas exchange that doesn't require identification. Who's forcing you to do that? Why aren't you using crypto to hide your profits from these criminals? Why don't you move to a tax haven? I mean, if you're so dumb as to still think government is necessary, you totally deserve it. But if you understand that taxation is theft, there is a million ways you can avoid it.

Yeah you're listing off exchanges that require ID and link bank accounts as if they are the only ones in existence
its almost as if you can't actually acknowledge the chance that people slipped through the cracks because it would destroy your argument that the IRS is an all knowing all seeing omnipotent force to be reckoned with

> So how did 99% of the people trade ?
And how many actually reported to the IRS? what was it, like 300 odd people?
Tell me, what happened to piracy? Was that stamped out or was it so pervasive that it overwhelmed bureaucracy and noone really gets done for it?

You can frame the world as being cucked by tax agents all you want
The reality is that crypto was made to divorce people like you from the power you use as a weapon agains the common man
and it sure does rub you up the wrong way doesnt it?

>You're listing off exchanges that require ID and link bank accounts as if they are the only ones in existence

Are we talking about future taxes or are we talking about crypto purchased and bought and sold a year or two ago ?
What exchanges could you buy bitcoin on as an American 2 years ago that wouldn't show up on your credit card or bank account statement ?
The IRS isn't all knowing but if your crypto ever hit a know your customer exchange then it's very easy to track your BTC addresses, email addresses and IPs.
If you were starting now, I wouldn't even know how to go about getting 50k worth of crypto from an exchange that doesn't report.

If you are seriously concerned about it go and hire a Crypto CPA to do your returns.

>bitcoin.tax/cpa

Honestly though unless you are one of the "whales" you shouldn't have anything to worry about if you don't want to. The IRS only knows what you tell them...

Try and think of it in terms of how the DEA figures out who to go after. They want the BIG fish which I can tell you is maybe 5% of the posters on this board. They are going after darkweb people that sell fentanyl, heroin, coke, meth etc. they aren't going to come knocking on your door because you bought a couple tabs of acid, it isn't feasible.

OR think of the NSA / FBI / CIA If you had a magic computer that let you spy on anyone it is pretty safe to assume that pretty much everyone is doing something really messed up they wouldn't even know who to even go after.

FBI hasn't stopped any of these shootings because they can't keep up with the tips or info they have received.

People that don't have adjusted gross income are more likely to get audited so if you are a neet crypto trader I would find a part time job to lower the likelihood of getting audited

Dunno man, I am just asking questions since it seems like there is a tax boogeyman looking to fuck everones ass despite not being able to find them to begin with

for now...
What happens when that 5k of BTC turns into 200k and you want to buya car or a house ?
Then what ? You have a ZERO cost basis and you will get hit hard.

Its probably going to happen. They are really no bullshit in a fucked in this.

195k gains versus 200k gains sure makes a difference lol

Yeah they do, if they intend to get the money. Otherwise all they have is a pissed off person who is being misstreated based on the idea that the IRS is going to be allowed to begin taxing concepts.

Taxing concepts is a whole other debate beyond taxation being theft ect. Being allowed to tax a concept such as a digital good is WELL AND BEYOND fucked up. They have to change their methods or they will be unsuccessful.

Oh look, wishful thinking. LOL.

Yeah lots of people argue that in jail each year.
Tax evasion isn't a new concept spawned by crypto.

If you return the same amount that you entered with, it's a wash, tax-wise. You'll probably need to file all of your transactions, which is a pain, but that's the price of trading.

My biggest worry:
1. Cashing out crypto to fiat.
2. Bank freezes my account.
3. Tax man starts investigation.
HALP

Yes but paying zero taxes on either amount has the same effect. Jail

They don't have to audit your stack, because they don't care, until you convert to fiat. And when you do, you have to provide a record of your transactions.

This time the argument is sound as fuck.

Taxing a concept, or digital goods, has to be done in real time during the transaction. You cannot treat digital goods the same way as physical goods. Nobody is going to pay.

Hey guys, now that the IRS is being allowed to tax concepts. They should also be allowed to tax Ideas.

Thought tax is all the rage, its only one step further from taxation of digital goods!

The IRS has defined crypto as property and it follows the laws for taxation on property exchange.
You can define it as whatever you like. I'm sure the IRS will be very swayed by your opinion.

I asked the bank. They won't know unless you deposit more than $10k in cash. Otherwise the amount of money in your account is private. Maybe the law is different where you live though. Still I'll just get a tax-free savings account rather than try to illegally dodge taxes.

Except they don't tax concepts, they tax assets, which is what they consider crypto. And, they WILL tax you if money shows up in your bank account over 10k that you can't account for.

Stop trying to outsmart the IRS, stupid. You're a retard.

(((They))) don't care.
Crypto is anti-establishment. Now the establishment is coming after you.
source: my lawyer

The IRS doesnt decide reality
They may have been able to in the age of television, radio etc
But in a new age
with new communication mediums
and new forms of currency
its harder to get the masses to accept it "just because"
most especially when the ball is firmly in the individuals court to begin with

but if you deposit say 9k a month for 3 months that is considered structuring and flags an automatic audit. Seriously don't play with the IRS.

>The IRS doesn't decide reality
No they enforce the reality that is decided on by the congressional powers to tax.
It's very clear you don't have any skin in the game. Anyone making any real money in this would be figuring out how to pay their taxes. That or they are in for a rude awakening.
Why should a waitress pay taxes and you not ?

That's not the argument. The argument is how this will play out. And so far I am right and all of you who think this will be ok are mentally retarded.

I have a giant I told you so come April when the IRS gets fucked so hard that they have to go full ham on honest people just to save face. Its laughable to think any other scenario will play out. This is cracking down on piracy all over again. They will put kids in jail and paint crypto like its only for child porn. They will likely torture innocent people for their keys and PEOPLE WILL DIE as a result of this situation. The end result will be a battle of attrition and the only ones punished will be the ones with targets painted manually on their backs. This wont be just the US either. Every world government is going to get hit with this problem and every world government will double down harder and harder until they realize they just cant win.

Taxing digital goods like you tax physical goods is impossible to enforce and probably shouldnt be allowed anyway.

>No they enforce the reality

Nobody can enforce the laws of reality. They are just as limited by reality as the rest of us. I don't care how much money and resources you have you cannot suddenly bend reality to your will without having it slap you in the face hard as fuck.

Taxing crypto to crypto trades would be like taxing interactions between the waitress and customers that leads to tips
kek

top fucking kek

Wow
No they will just garnish peoples wages for life.
A few millionaires will see jail..
but the people will submit.. like they always do

>Taxing crypto to crypto trades would be like taxing interactions between the waitress and customers that leads to tips
>kek
Wow you ARE a retard. Most restaurants now make the waitresses fill out a form about how much they made in tips each night.
They are taxed on those tips each paycheck..
So much for your silly analogy.

>No they will just garnish peoples wages for life.

If they do this then I go full crypto. Then what?

> but the people will submit.. like they always do

There has never been one revolution in the history of mankind guys. Never over shit like this right? Not even once.

thing is - that if you dont pay your taxes for 2017. it will be hard to cash out. i mean you could sell it for cash. but still - at some point you have everything you could buy with cash. (a TV, a car, nice cloths etc)

but if you really want to work with that money in the future like buying real estate etc. than your government will check why you have so much money.

imho if you are in for tax avoidance. go to another country were taxes are easy.

The only way to tax crypto will be to do it in real time as the transactions occure. Any other method will result in failure. And even that would be limited in many ways.

Is it the same in Canada? Like I said, here we have tax-free savings account just for capital gains. As the name suggests, the account is tax-free even if you withdraw the money. So I'm not even going to try to dodge taxes because I don't need to.

I'm a NEET on NEETbux, and I'm spending wagies tax dollars on crypto and when I make money on it I will legally be paying no taxes AND I'LL STILL BE RECEIVING NEETBUX! AHAHAHAHAHA!

>If they do this then I go full crypto. Then what?
well if you can start your own business and pay all your suppliers in crypto and do every single transaction in crypto and pay for all your goods in crypt, and know that the people who you are buying from AND selling to are not reporting the transactions, then you beat the system!
You win user!
You aRE teh WINNER!

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We have that in the US as well. Only problem is you cannot buy crypto within a tax differed or free account. Wish you could. If people could buy crypto in thier 401k or IRA accounts then crypto would BOOM

You're a retard with little reading comprehension that got triggered by me not following your script and going down the path your loaded question set up, that being making an analogy likening it to wages
Its almost as if you had your response waiting, copy pasted
It seems this way because you didnt actually read what I wrote.

I didnt liken it to TIPS
I likened it to the INTERACTIONS BETWEEN WAITRESSES AND CUSTOMERS that leads to tips.
Literally talking to eachother, smiling, acting nice.

Taxing crypto to crypto is like taxing these interactions, not the tips (cashing out).

Also your choice is telling, waitresses - it seems that the entire tipping culture is a psychological foundation of tax culture
but thats another discussion for another time, social engineering ;^)

>well if you can start your own business

A decentralized application DAPP
You wont even need to admit who you are and its popularity can be completely organic.

>I likened it to the INTERACTIONS BETWEEN WAITRESSES AND CUSTOMERS that leads to tips.
>Literally talking to eachother, smiling, acting nice.
>Taxing crypto to crypto is like taxing these interactions, not the tips (cashing out).

Was it a medium smile or a large smile you invested in the waitress? We need to file paperwork on this stat otherwise its off to jail for both you AND her.

Princess I am not triggered in the slightest. You can not pay taxes for all I care, but this don't pay your taxes advice on Veeky Forums is going to get alot of anons in BIG BIG trouble.

tips , smiling..blah blah blah... move the goalposts. Crypto transactions iz like smilings!
Garble flurble HAVE YOU NEVER READ LOCKE!

I buy crypto from my usual chequeing account, and if I got a tax free account I should just be able to move it to my chequeing account without it being taxed. Am I missing something? You can remove money from the TFSA without it being taxed so...

I'm all for decentralized everything.
I just don't believe that the entire system is going to acquiesce easily and they WILL go for the low hanging fruit because when anons see other anons going to jail over neet tax evasion, they will fall in line.

Don't know anything about Canadian law.
I would assume the transaction would either have to be held in the tax free account though. Better ask some Leafanons

who f-cking want to live with uncle Sam?
we love asia

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If you smiled with an intention of profiting, then its the highest tax bracket for you!

I work
I get paid into a bank account
I pay taxes
such is life

crypto seems to be another ballgame altogether
And although we all know the IRS would like to be able to port over their stats, the reality is that the power is with the common man now
and that is why barely anyone is paying taxes on something that is essentially untraceable
that is why piracy blew up and has become part of the culture

anyway I would love to stick around and chat but I am not getting paid to shill, so enjoy scaring brainlets into thinking the sky is falling
kek

That's side stepping the overall argument. The argument being posed is that this is a unenforceable train wreck. Nobody here is saying people wont be getting killed or put in jail. Oh I wont be painting that happy shit on my posts.

My only point is, nobody is going to pay. I am not saying DONT. I am saying when or if you do, you will be one of the very few who did.

We have to all agree on the fact that this is a complete disaster. If you do not explicitly agree with this specific point you full of fucking shit. You are outing yourself as a liar.

Answer the fucking question, do you agree that this is a fucking disaster or not? The answer is that its OBVIOUSLY a massive shitshow on all aspects.

>the power is with the common man now
Hopefully we are moving in that direction, but your fellow citizens pay their taxes and they are common people.
Do you think they would like to pay taxes while you get a pass ?

I agree but $10k is nothing compared to the gains I've made in crypto so far.
I'm in a cooperation with a lawyer right now and I will probably do everything according to the law.
Probably will have to go into debt or sell of some crypto (don't want to do that) to be able to pay of my tax debt from the crypto to crypto trades

The existence of decentralized ANYTHING is the incentive to decentralize everything. Like sports teams when they found to black people are awesome at sports. I will have multiple dapps in my future.

If GDAX sent me a 1099k, that means they also sent one to the IRS. Does that mean I can't avoid reporting capital gains?