I was reading books by Latin authors (or books by modern authors, but located in the ancient Latin world), and it is remarkable how often it is talked of Greek as a more plastic language, more malleable, more inventive than Latin. Greek is described as a language with greater ability to juggle, to make contortions, expansions and compressions, to make words merge into new entities, etc.
I wonder if this is true. Can anybody here talk about the Greek language and its virtues?
Lingua Graecorum, ut opinor, lingua optima ac digna discitu est; docto discenda, lectori litteraturae bonae pernecessis est. Genera sermonis Graeci multa variaque, ex qua multitudine haec dignitas discendi. Quis tunc se "doctus" appelare potest legere hanc nequiens?
Tantummodo discipulus huius linguae nunc sum, sed spero me meliorem locutorem, lectorem, scriptorem factum iri. Conventiculum ad quod adire hunc ad finem cupio est illud Instituti Paideae Ang. "Living Greek in Greece" vocatur (nam etiam ii apud Universitatem Kentuckiensem, aliosque Latinitatis vivae cultores saepe non Graecitatis vivae cutores non sunt, aut ex pigritudine aut ex stultitia.
Dominic Nelson
youre a fucking faggot
Ryder Wright
non, es
Connor Wilson
I have the opportunity to learn Latin soon and study abroad while doing so. Does anyone know if Latin would benefit a writer? One of my college professors always said that Edgar Allan Poe had such a command of the written word because he studied Latin in what would equate to contemporary fourth grade. He said that writers like Poe had an intimate understanding of language in composition.
Cooper Bailey
Always learn Latin. Always learn Greek. These are the tools to becoming more acquainted with Western thought. What opportunity, if I might ask?
Brody Ortiz
sure. in many cultures there are splits in language. usually this is along lines of class. latin was the tool of an educated and wealthy class who could afford to be correct. most people didn't have that good grammar (pardon my grammar) the lower classes, peasants, farmers etc. would not have had such an extensive grasp over writing/vocabulary etc. making it an officious language with high standards over its correct usage. this is what is preserved of latin. greek was spoken by more people, even, as one could say, by the common people. this made it much more "vital" and "lively", more able to be used without the rigorous precision of latin (for example)
actually, very similar is hindi and punjabi (and I think I should have mentioned it first because:) hindi is a very old language, with subtle nuances to its learning and usage available to the higher classes who could afford its education (like latin, for example) punjabi is a language used by farmers. it sounds a lot like hindi, but more... musical, and less rigid. that would be like the greek language, in context.
the similarity between greek and punjabi is that they are more conversational languages, much more available to the common tongue, and therefore much more used and changed more by common and lower classes. this permits more "playfulness" in its use. it is more "acceptable"
hindi/latin are much more complex with a formal set of rules expected to be adhered to, and only mastered and known by those educated in it. even in speaking, the rules of latin are highly complex and ordered, and probably would never be understood by common folk. In terms of literacy, this means that such "playfulness" as it were, is strictly prohibited and discouraged. consider it emblematic of societal and class separations of the time
Liam Rogers
Academic through the Honors College at my university. I require a foreign language with my degree, and as a Honor student, I get the benefit of fulfilling the requirement while studying in a country that is intimate with the language.
Leo Smith
You should do it
Jackson Nguyen
Then why is his prose so clunky?
James Smith
Latin prose is clunky
Luis Russell
Have you ever read early prose? It's evolved over the past few centuries. If you read other works around the same time, you'll see it was no more clunky than the contemporary standard of the time. Hell, just jump back to the 20th century and see how clunky some of the prose is compared to today. He was writing in the 18th century.
I'm curious are you a high school student? Or have you just started your journey into literature.
Many of his pieces are still read and revered to this day. No, they're not as easy a read as the latest Stephen King novel; they take effort to read.
If you truly want to see his mastery of language, read The Raven. Do a critical reading and maybe see what some scholars have to say if you struggle to analyze it yourself.
Aiden Wilson
> tfw you can understand 65% of written latin without having studied it
Jordan Sullivan
I study Classics at Oxford and I've studied Latin and Greek for about 10 years. They are both beautiful languages in their own way.
Latin is concise and uses much fewer words and often meaning has to be inferred from context. Greek has far more particles and is uses many more participles making it feel like a more active, flowing language. The difference is perhaps best seen by comparing Greek and Latin poetry.
The greatest Greek poetry, in my opinion, are the Homeric epics where the hexameter works perfectly with the action-oriented Greek language to convey a sense of constant movement and action. The greatest Latin poetry, in my opinion (although I'm sure many would agree) is elegiac love poetry (I'm particularly fond of Ovid's elegies). Latin, by its very nature, is a more reflective, concise language that lends itself to descriptions of emotions and beauty rather than a flowing action-narrative. This is why I don't think Virgil's Aeneid can ever live up to Homer's epics, but also why love poetry in Greek was never as popular as in Latin.
Either way, I would definitely recommend learning Greek, there are few experiences more rewarding than being able to read some of the oldest, most beautiful Western literature in its original form.
Dominic Myers
>I study Classics at Oxford and I've studied Latin and Greek for about 10 years
>ended up on Veeky Forums
Landon Ward
I studied Ancient Greek philology at university for 2 years before I dropped out.
It's a great language, but very difficult.
Michael Thompson
Great post
Christopher Jones
Cur es usus modo infinitivo post 'spero'? Sententia melius scripta fuisset, si usus fuisses modo subjunctivo post 'spero', ut 'spero ut melior... scriptor fiam'. Modus infinitivus nobis est utendus post aliquid genus dubiti; et non certum est te eloquentissimus scriptor facturus esse.
Admodum cum te sentio de lingua Graecorum; lingua Latinorum est stultiora absurdioraque.
Adam Allen
* modus subjunctivus nobis est utendus cum dubitum
Stultissimus sum.
Xavier Robinson
Hanc necessitatem modi conjunctivi cum verb sperandi utendi nunquam ante vidi. Gratias propter correctionem!
Easton Martin
>Either way, I would definitely recommend learning Greek Which? There are so many ancient differences. Also, can you recommend how to start?
Matthew Hughes
μονο ΑΕΚ ρε μουνιά
Jaxon Long
i know english in french, and i want to learn either german or ancient greek. not sure which id prefer to study.
german obviously has more practical uses, but im interested in both for Veeky Forums reasons
Austin Richardson
learn german. I just say Goethe and Nietzsche. They have such a wonderful style of writing. You have to read them in there original language.
Julian Williams
The Emperor Hadrian (in Marguerite Yourcenar's Memoirs of Hadrian) about the Greek language:
"To my dying day I shall be grateful to Scaurus for having set me early to the study of Greek. I was still a child when for the first time I tried to trace on my tablets those characters of an unknown alphabet: here was a new world and the beginning of my great travels, and also the feeling of a choice as deliberate, but at the same time as involuntary, as that of love. I have loved the language for its flexibility, like that of a supple, perfect body, and for the richness of its vocabulary, in which every word bespeaks direct and varied contact with reality: and because almost everything that men have said best has been said in Greek.” (...) "There is nothing to equal the beauty of a Latin votive or burial inscription: those few words graved on stone sum up with majestic impersonality all that the world need ever know of us. It is in Latin that I have administered the empire; my epitaph will be carved in Latin on the walls of my mausoleum beside the Tiber; but it is in Greek that I shall have thought and lived."
Christopher Ramirez
As the violin is the most perfect musical instrument, so is the Greek language the violin of human thinking. (Helen Keller – famous blind American author)
The Greek language with its mathematical structure is the language of Information Technologyand the new generation of advanced computers, because only in the Greek language there are no limits. (Bill Gates – Microsoft co-founder)
The Greek language has homogeneity like the German language, however, it is richer. It has the clarity of French, but it has greater punctiliousness. It is more flexible than Italian and more harmonic than Spanish. In other words it has what is needed to be considered the most beautiful language of Europe. (Karolos Foriel – Professor, Sorbone University)
I heard at St Peter’s the Holly Gospel in all the languages. The Greek language reverberated like a bright star in the night. (Johann Goethe, the greatest German poet)
Luke Parker
K. So, tell me how to get started and which, be it attic, homeric, koine, to focus on.
Lucas Sanders
Koine, then move to Homeric. Skip Attic.
Carter Sanchez
Can you give any reasoning
Cameron Rodriguez
lol don't listen to this fag.Start with Attic then move on to Homeric, and then Koine.
I recommend the books Reading Greek by the Joint Association of Classical Teachers.
Kayden Hall
Koine is relatively easy (relatively), and is widely applicable and understandable. Most texts are nowadays put into Koine, with notes where Attic or Doric differ.
Homeric for obvious reasons.
Koine is literally Attic anyway.
Isaiah Gray
Sorry, I dont know Greek: I just found some quotes about it.
But if I were to learn I think I would start with the Homeric Greek, and also try to learn the Greek of the great tragedians and the dialogues of Plato. After that i would look for the modern day language.
But to be honest I also find that there is a lot of emotional and sentimental value on those opinions. It is like looking at the Mona Lisa: it’s hard to forget the image of a man who devoted his life to study several different subjects (although he is quite overrated on this matters), who was one of the best draftsman of all time, a proto-anatomist, proto-geologist, etc. when you are looking at the painting. You don’t just look at a portrait: you look at the soul and aspirations of the world famous Leonardo da Vinci, and so your judgment is not perfectly cold and analytical. The same with Greek. It’s hard for people to forget that this was the language of the civilization that contributed so much in so many fields as sculpture, poetry, theater, philosophy, politics, etc. It’s hard to forget that it is the language of the cultural powerhouse of the Western World (after all, Rome adopted Greek culture almost as its own and propelled it to vast geographical spaces). Greek is another language, with its own strong points and limitations. But since it is so ancient a language and so filled with respected and honored users people cant help but feeling that there is something sacred in it. But that’s just emotion speaking.
Jose Wood
You know this is from a novel, right?
Gavin Scott
Fly You feel me?
Gavin Martin
Yes. I am not that dumb, m8
Oliver Sanders
>As the violin is the most perfect musical instrument
wut?
Aaron Morgan
I've been self-studying from Hansen & Quinn for about a year. It's a great way to learn Attic prose, and everything is well explained. There are exercises for every chapter, and there is a blog that has the answers if you get stuck. In the later chapters, reading selections are added, which offer a bit of a challenge, but give the student a better feel for real prose. The last 3-4 chapters assign a longish portion of Gorgias. Overall I'd highly recommend this text for starting out.
Gavin Collins
Sorry, I didn't check the replies to my post.
If you're still here, I would recommend the "Reading Greek" series as the best way to start reading Attic Greek (it's what Oxford prescribe to any new Classics undergrads who haven't already learned Greek at school).
Homeric Greek is slightly different and I would wait until you have the basics of Attic Greek down first. However, the differences aren't so big as people might suggest and it really isn't much a shift (think reading English from 200 years ago and it's about the same difference between Attic and Homeric Greek).
I was browsing Veeky Forums a long time before I got accepted to Oxford. Being "clever" doesn't stop me from seeking some sort of empty social interaction with autists on an imageboard dedicated to the discussion of sexy cartoon girls drawn by equally lonely men living on an isolated volcanic archipelago.
Hunter Stewart
How do you pronounce Koine?
Aaron Lewis
like kino, only with a drawn out e kineee
Yes, I am greek
Hudson Mitchell
Ah, the famous Greek epic hexameter; still in use today I see, and by such fine aesthetes as yourself, user.
Cameron Johnson
You probably actually are; this is the modern pronunciation, not how the Greeks would've said it then.
Chase Jenkins
> kino Only modern Greeks would do that.
Actual Greeks would have said something like 'koi-neh.
Thomas Price
AYOOOO GIRL
Tyler Myers
can someone translate this for me?
βορβορου ούk έσμεν
Caleb Collins
> We are not from mud.
Ayden Flores
"Of filth, we are not."
Or something to that effect.
Christopher Thomas
Not true tbqh, because when Koine was actually the common vernacular, around 200 A.D, the current modern pronunciation of Greek had already been established.
So Koine would actually be pronounced "i kini" "ἡ kοινὴ"
But in the Attic period, you would be correct though.
Isaac Wright
The word 'koine' was around long before the actual dialect. It just means 'common'.
Ethan Green
I know that, but the pronunciation hasn't always been the same.
In Attic it would be pronounced "Heh Koy-neh", but that stopped being true after 200 A.D when the Demotiki pronunciation began with itacism and iotacism.
Juan Mitchell
it was inscribed on the title page of an anthology of poetry by DH Lawrence, what was the previous owner trying to tell me
Samuel Sullivan
That Genesis is a load of shit?
Nicholas Lewis
Who knows. Might be biblical.
Ryan Smith
How it is to read Aeschylus in the original, considering the information in this post:
>"To earth's remotest limit we come, to the Scythian land, an untrodden solitude. And now, Hephaestus, yours is the charge to observe the mandates laid upon you by the Father—to clamp this miscreant [5] upon the high craggy rocks in shackles of binding adamant that cannot be broken. For your own flower, flashing fire, source of all arts, he has purloined and bestowed upon mortal creatures. Such is his offence; for this he is bound to make requital to the gods, so that he may learn to bear with the sovereignty of Zeus and cease his man-loving ways."
Nathan Jones
Do you think his poetry looks like the one of Shakespeare?
Samuel Martinez
Hard to say. I'm not that acquainted with the poetry, the only thing I know is that it's written in dactylic hexameter, so it's not supposed to rhyme in any way, and was supposed to recited I think.