Anons on this board legitimately support Marxism and other socialist schools of thought

Seems like most writers are anarchists to me. Anyway the writer should thank the state for giving something for them to complain about

Austrian economist reporting in

You aren't Veeky Forums if you never read mises

>separating political and economic philosophy
>Marxist

Uh you might wanna look up "political economy" in Das Capital I think you missed it

>most writers are anarchists

Such as?

right/left, present terms

economics... more like ebonics amirite, Darwin?

Just because you decide to group them into being left or right, it doesn't mean that they actually belong to either. Politics stems off these economic schools of thought, not the other way around.

>Pretty much any writer of any quality of the last century was a socialist
It makes sense seeing as how socialism can only work in fiction. :3

>It makes sense seeing as how socialism can only work in fiction. :3

>tfw you live in Libertopia and you're forced to sell your 8 year old son to a wealthy NAMBLA man to pay for those tolls on the private road

Unlike Marx, Mises didn't breed cultists. I study other schools of thought and realize that Austrian is not the answer to everything. That being said it's the most logical school and though it doesn't always work in practice, with the proper regulations it is the best system

>the objectively best nations in the world sux xD

I mean I would say most of them if they didn't really say otherwise, and to be clear I'm really only talking about modernists and post modernists and some scattered oyhers. Off the top of my head id say tolstoy, alan moore, delillo, pynchon, cormac mccarthy, vonnegut, joyce, the transcendentalists I guess, krasznahorkai. I mean it seems to me that to become a writer at a certain point it meant that you'd already given up hope when it came to politics and the state

the dichotomy is false, is what i said yes.

everything is politics, not economics

Here we see a socialist on his last legs, knowing that he cannot retort properly, must put up a terribly transparent visage of irony while he makes a half-hearted statement implying "the objectively best nations in the world" are socialist, a statement which he knows he will not be able to defend if prompted for more information.

America is not socialist senpai

We are corporatist

>Selection bias this hard

are you retarded or something

Holy shit, commies BTFO

>Mises didn't breed cultists
Libertarianism, specially the Austrian School, is a wellspring of bizarre cults. perhaps even more so than Marxism. Starting from Rand's Collective to Stefan Molyneux, infowars.com the Kochs' political machine and all those increasingly insane NRx/transhumanist mutations. Something out of dystopian science fiction

In what countries are you talking about?

Except that we wouldnt be good if we existed anywhere else on the map

>Politics stems off these economic schools of thought, not the other way around

This is a little dogmatic. People inculcated in reactionary ideology (eg: watching Sean Hannity) tend to embrace and reproduce the relations of production of capitalism only after they've been convinced by the goodness of its superstructural forms. Hence the importance of capturing Ideological State Apparatuses in order to facilitate a transition to socialism, but I digress.

Your original comment suggested that politics and economics could be contemplated separately which is a profoundly unmarxist sentiment.

Lol.

>no Austrian school cultists
>who is Ron Paul

Maybe on 4 Chan but in the real world plenty of successful people have studied Rand and the Austrian school and have made successful careers and decisions by modifying the philosophies.

if you measure progress or success monetarily i feel very sorry for you, there is substantial research on the matter, you aren't familiar with Europa at all, are you?

'Murica, you're a third world shithole

Hypothetically. We no doubt have the best geography but it doesn't mean there aren't other factors that significantly contribute to Americas power

What a scary strawman

Ron Paul based everything off the principle of Liberty , that's what all his policies derive from. The Austrian school attempts to follow that same principle but Paul isn't an Austrian cultists he advocates for the implementation of Austrian policies in a political establishment filled with die hard Keynesians and Marxists

Your obscurantism is quite boring. Please tell me what measure of success we should be using, and which countries are succeeding according to it?

Also the economic/monetary wellbeing of a nation is incredibly important for the welfare of its citizens, the integrity of its institutions and services, the ability of the individual to participate in the social sphere of relations. I take it you have not read Marx yourself.

>t.butthurt foreigner

Kek, commies on suicide watch.

Yeah I guess youre really not familiar at all with politics or culture if you think right libertarianism is immune to cultlike bullshit. Randites are objectively worse than orthodox marxists because Ayn Rand is an objectively worse philosopher. Im not saying leftists dont have cults and lots of dogmatic bullshit because im not delusional or ignorant enough to believe that, but somehow youve missed that in every business school at least in the US theres a whole herd of smug ayncaps who got their beliefs from image macros posted on reddit. Fuck just look at stefan molyneaux and his flock of stupid faggots.

you're the obscurantist with your darwinistisk politics.

it's an abstract property, true, and still you resort to "muh shekels", " currency is essential to wellbeing" you couldn't be more self-evident.

is currency the core? this is were we part, you vs. me and science

no pain in my ass

Vonnegut: "It’s perfectly ordinary to be a socialist. It’s perfectly normal to be in favor of fire departments. There was a time when I could vote for economic justice, and I can’t anymore. I cast my first vote for a socialist candidate—Norman Thomas, a Christian minister. I had to cast it by absentee ballot. I used to have three socialist parties to choose from—the Socialist Labor Party, Socialist Workers Party, and I forgot what the other one was."

progressive.org/mag_intv0603

Joyce in a letter to his brother: "My politics are those of a socialist artist."

This one is in the famous Ellmann biography, James Joyce, on page 197, but you can probably find it on Google Books, idk.

Alan Moore, who I don't esteem very highly and is kind of out of place on your list, is indeed an anarchist. Pynchon it seems kind of useless to speculate on - obviously Left from his consistent critiques of capitalism in his novels but no personal records, interviews, etc. McCarthy might be libertarian for all I know, but I've never read his work too closely.

Transcendentalists are all pre-20th century, and most of them are older than Marx. That said, Emerson, like Marx, draws strongly from Hegel.

>ayn rands objectivism is objectively worse than Marxism

Wew lad

So objectivism is right?

Not an argument

Your perception of people based off anonymous chat forums is hysterical

Okay you win. I think I still have mccarthy and delillo though.

what
I don't hold finance as the ultimate good, but you're delusional if you think economic prosperity isn't an essential aspect of social wellbeing
are you trolling me

I truly pity people that think just because lawl they read le big boy books and are marxist scum, they're smarter and cultured by default.

Your intelligence/level of culture is only truly measured by your profession, not your pastime

now you regurgitate
are you trolling me

Oh I forgot about DeLillo. He's another recluse, but he gave an interview with The New York Times with this beauty:

"But I do think we can connect novelists and terrorists here. In a repressive society, a writer can be deeply influential, but in a society that's filled with glut and repetition and endless consumption, the act of terror may be the only meaningful act. People who are in power make their arrangements in secret, largely as a way of maintaining and furthering that power. People who are powerless make an open theater of violence. True terror is a language and a vision. There is a deep narrative structure to terrorist acts, and they infiltrate and alter consciousness in ways that writers used to aspire to."

nytimes.com/books/97/03/16/lifetimes/del-v-dangerous.html

And while that sounds like it could have been lifted straight out of Zizek, I think DeLillo is probably too individualist to be a committed Marxist.

>Mock Marx for his ideas
>Literally defines self by place in the capitalist hierarchy and the ability to produce, most likely for a company they do not own.

I'm not even a leftist and I recognize how much of a fucking ignoramus you are.

>Your intelligence/level of culture is only truly measured by your profession, not your pastime

This just in, Edgar Allen Poe, Rimbaud, Van Gogh, Dylan Thomas, Fragonard, Vermeer, and Gaughin all uncultured swine. Donald Trump and Mike Tyson new paragons of intelligence and culture.

That doesn't really have anything that couldnt be said as an anarchist though. I think he views himself as the "arch individualist"

Anyway also just wanted to point out that while joyce did say he was a socialist he did reject marxism and "found das kapital so absurd that he immediately returned the book to the lender." P.127 joyces politics

That was the joke friend

But it is far less respected by anyone taken seriously

What is this special brand of autism rightlibs have where they just yell logical fallacies and not an argument when were obviously just being assholes baiting each other anyway

There is no discussion here, this is Veeky Forums, its good ironic attempts at bad content and bad unironic attempts at good content.

I can already here the moans "backpeddling" "shifting the platform" or whatever spells you cast during this ebic duel of wits before you need to flee and let your sperginess recharge

Just walk away from the screen nigga just close your eyes

nice posts desu
kek

>found das kapital so absurd that he immediately returned the book to the lender."

That's on Google Books, it reads "found the first sentence of Das Kapital," indicating that he never read it, although this sounds typical of Joyce's iconoclast humor, and is sourced from Gorman (ie. this isn't something Joyce himself wrote down in an essay). The text you googled goes on to say that Joyce was enthralled by socialism as articulated by Lassalle (a contemporary of Marx) and that his biggest problem with Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein was precisely that it wouldn't declare itself specifically socialist.

Yr bein a lil naughty there, m8.

equality is so disgusting lol

Like Venezuela?

no, Venezuela is an american gutter of corruption, think Norway, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands

Young Joyce was an anarchist.

>source

none of which are socialist

You said that measuring success by financial terms was bad and yet you list countries which are well off because they amassed good wealth in the last century. They could not have the social support structure they had without getting rich. Also they're not socialist and are nihilistic hellholes - some on the brink of self-extinction.

Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man
Stephen Hero
Ulysses
Stephen/Joyce is at times referred to as "the young egoist", and his brother had this to say about him
"He detested falsity and believed in individual freedom more thoroughly than any man I have ever known. Freedom…was the guiding theme of his life. He accepted its gifts and its perils as he accepted his own personality, as he accepted the life that had produced him. His revolt was a defense of that personality against a system whose encroachments on the plea of obedience ended, like modern totalitarian systems which have copied it, only with the complete cancellation of character."

ridiculous claim, entire Europa is kommunist measured by american standards
if we are rich, what are you? yet your communities are literal war zones

bad policies? don't even go there, Mr. Trump

none of those countries are socialist you stupid fuck

>... in the past did capitalism award its highest benefits to such admittedly superior persons as Poe, Spinoza, Baudelaire, Shakespeare, Keats, and so on? Or is it just possible that the real beneficiaries of capitalism are not the truly superior, but merely those who choose to devote their superiority to the single process of personal acquisition rather than to social service or to creative intellectual or aesthetic effort ... those, and the lucky parasites who share or inherit the fruits of their narrowly canalised superiority?

you must be a troll or experience semantisk issues, they are socialist and have been for over a hundred years, the two political polarities have merged into indifferentiability

>opening by nano.RIPE

Is this the curse that Marx inflicted on humanity? Every few generations we get to witness a "new" socialism, that all the others weren't doing it properly, but this time we've got it.... and when it fails, a few generations later, the idea resurfaces when the failures are gone from a nation's memory

welfare capitalism is still capitalism you dumb cunt
swedish people need to be dealt with ASAP

No one's trying socialism presently though. Haven't for a very long time in fact.

>This right.

>That wrong.

>Me no think about it no more.

>Now me yell.

None of those are sources. You just listed his fictional works - fictional works where Stephen Daedalus quotes Marx and where Leopold Bloom - the greatest hero in Joyce's oeuvre - identifies himself point blank as a socialist. Joyce disagreed with Stanislaus on political matters.

See:Joyce was always a committed socialist. There is no sentence you could quote, attributable to Joyce, that advocates explicitly anarchist ideology.

>Norway
Depends entirely on oil to prop their "socialism" up.

>Sweden
LOL don't make me chase my sides, user.

>Finland
How are they socialist?

>Netherlands
How are they socialist?

>conveniently left out Switzerland
Why? Because Switzerland is the most capitalist country on the planet?

Europa disagrees, "kapitalist" is used in a derogatory fashion, the young, naive amerika knows nothing

you realise these are concrete systems with actual definitions?
only Americans think the (failing) Nordic model is socialist

> Every few generations we get to witness a "new" socialism, that all the others weren't doing it properly, but this time we've got it...

That is how the dialectic works...

But the idea that capitalism has 'won' where socialism has failed is preposterous. The entire system depends for its existence on the enslavement of billions of people in the Global South via sweatshops, copper mines, banana plantations, etc.

In the words of Marx
>Direct slavery is just as much the pivot of bourgeois industry as machinery, credits, etc. Without slavery you have no cotton; without cotton you have no modern industry. It is slavery that has given the colonies their value; it is the colonies that have created world trade, and it is world trade that is the pre-condition of large-scale industry. Thus slavery is an economic category of the greatest importance.

the source of their resources is irrelevant really, you are not rational at all

Schweiz is very socialist, citizen salary etc, same with Finland

your point is ridiculous

Whereas reds have plenty of free-time, being unemployed leeches living off of the sweat of others, giving them plenty of time to shitpost on a Mongolian Scrimshaw forum

>None of those are sources.
Have you even read Joyce? The biggest thing that he argues throughout his works is that all art is semi-autobiographical. Stephen questions why the entire county could not belong to him, common Egoist Anarchist thought.

>the source of their resources is irrelevant really
But they are prosperous nations *because* of capitalism, whereas there is no state prosperous *because* of socialism.

Switzerland doesn't have basic income
jfc you are so fucking thick

>The biggest thing that he argues throughout his works is that all art is semi-autobiographical.

Yes, I've read Joyce, and I think I just vomited in my mouth reading that sentence. Is that really all you've gotten out of, say, Ulysses?

Again, I've actually quoted Joyce saying, "I'm a socialist, look at me," whereas you can't even quote a passage in one of his fictional works attributable to a fictional character to back up your point.

Stop trying to assimilate a great writer to your neckbeard "philosophy."

>being unemployed leeches living off of the sweat of others
The kind of person the guy you're replying to is also unemployed (doesn't have to do much aside from small maintenance in the machinery that keeps feeding him with money, has in the great majority of cases built that machinery due to having a headstart or simply inherited it) and is living off the sweat of others (without the people who work for him yet won't ever make 1/10000th of what he has, he would be reduced to the same conditions).

here we are again, "currency is essential" i never disagreed, how you manage it is more so though

all these nations are "prosperous" because of their policies

>it is impossible to work and be paid a fair wage for your labour
alright then

it has, a small region for trials, Finland the same by the end of this year

shit thread is delusional and wrong

they voted against it

>31 cents an hour to make underwear for Nautica in Haiti
>fair wage

Although, yes Marx, would indeed argue that the very relations of production in capitalism, wherein you and I are forced to sell our labor power to the arbitrary owners of private property are inherently unjust and will inevitably lead to the violent overthrow of the latter by the former.

Berniebots that drone on about highways and fire departments don't give Marx enough credit for how radical his critique of capitalism was. I'm even sympathetic to the user arguing that the Nordic model is welfare capitalist.

kys, faggot

>will inevitably lead to the violent overthrow of the latter by the former.
when's that happening lol

[citation needed] :^)

>Is that really all you've gotten out of, say, Ulysses?
I never claimed that, you mouth-breathing retard. I only claimed that it was one of the biggest facets of his work.
"the whole-hearted young egoist", "He acknowledged to himself in honest egoism", and "Stephen's unapologetic egoism" - Stephen Hero
"But I suspect, Stephen interrupted, that Ireland must be important because it belongs to me." - Ulysses
There's no reason to bring up Bloom, we're speaking of young Joyce, not old.
>Stop trying to assimilate a great writer to your neckbeard "philosophy."
All philosophy is sophistry.

Go to /pol/ if you don't like it here

I believe it is possible, but such a world would see a very small, and pretty much negligible disparity between the richest and the poorest. Very different from our world.

Anarchism is socialist

It happens quite often, all over the world.

>mfw I can't even mention Mao without muh millions and now suddenly class war never happens

it's water

You can mention him all you want but you also can't pretend that the millions and the massive destruction of and alienation from culture that followed are somehow non-issues.