/HPG/: Harry Potter General

/HPG/: Harry Potter General

What is your favorite book from the Harry Potter series?

Which relationships did you hope for most?

What do you appreciate most about JK Rowling's style of writing, her humour or her interesting plots?

~~~~SORTING HAT RULES~~~~

0 - 1: Gryffindor
2 - 3: Ravenclaw
4 - 5: Hufflepuff
6 - 7: Slytherin
8 - 9: SQUIB!

harry potter is for 10 year olds dude wtf is wrong with you

Slytherin GET!

What's happening is part of a phenomenon I wrote about a couple of years ago when I was asked to comment on Rowling. I went to the Yale University bookstore and bought and read a copy of "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone." I suffered a great deal in the process. The writing was dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs." I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing.

But when I wrote that in a newspaper, I was denounced. I was told that children would now read only J.K. Rowling, and I was asked whether that wasn't, after all, better than reading nothing at all? If Rowling was what it took to make them pick up a book, wasn't that a good thing?

It is not. "Harry Potter" will not lead our children on to Kipling's "Just So Stories" or his "Jungle Book." It will not lead them to Thurber's "Thirteen Clocks" or Kenneth Grahame's "Wind in the Willows" or Lewis Carroll's "Alice."

Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.

Our society and our literature and our culture are being dumbed down, and the causes are very complex. I'm 73 years old. In a lifetime of teaching English, I've seen the study of literature debased. There's very little authentic study of the humanities remaining. My research assistant came to me two years ago saying she'd been in a seminar in which the teacher spent two hours saying that Walt Whitman was a racist. This isn't even good nonsense. It's insufferable.

Slytherin it is!

A 73 year old browsing Veeky Forums? I didn't really expect anyone this old to browse Veeky Forums at all. It's a very interesting perspective that you provided, it makes me wonder how Harry Potter became so popular.

It's a copypasta

Harry/Luna is the best ship

Yes, I just saw the copypasta thread. How many days/weeks are we in for with shitposting of this caliber?

it's probably the most iconic copypasta in Veeky Forums history it's not going anywhere soon. it's a legit bloom quote from 2003.

Anything other than hufflepuff!

In the same review he goes and compares Blood Meridian to Moby Dick. He's a hack that can't acknowledge harmless pulp for what it is, and luckily has no value at all outside of his homeland.

I think I like Rowling best for her humor.

Which is why I cringe reading fanfics that miss the point and make HP stories that are all grim and dark.

I want to say Luna is overrated by the fandom but I genuinely like her.

Slytherin!

I agree. It's a real nice kind of humour too, which makes people seem foolish without turning them into caricatures or portraying them as essentially evil individuals.

>or portraying them as essentially evil individuals

And yet, this is exactly what some part of the fandoms do.

Fuck, no wonder a lot of HP readers only end up reading YA shit. They have that bad of a reading comprehension.

To be fair many of the fanfic writers are young teenagers, so their writing style is understandably cliched and so on. Harry Potter is just a really comfy universe, and the fact it exists alongside and within the Muggle university just makes it that much more comfy in my opinion. It's as if your feelings of being an outsider or of not belonging become justified by the fact that you find a home in this alternative world that the regular Dursley-esque Muggles just can't see. And Hogwarts is so amazing, sleeping in small dormitories with stone floors overlooking a lake and mountains and a forest and the snow falling against the leaded panes of glass. Waking up and dressing in robes and hanging out by the fire in the common room for a while before heading down to eat breakfast in the great hall on long wooden tables with all the food you can imagine and then going to different classes where you learn to mix potions and levitate and fly around on broomsticks. My god, what a world to live in. How enviable an existence Harry and his peers live. And behind it all the threat of evil, of pure evil that one can choose to bravely fight against knowing you are on the right side, of virtue and justice and love for your fellows. It's just so cozy. The stone corridors, the fresh air, the beautiful girls like Hermione, the quiet libraries stocked with books on magic and ancient history. Amazing. Simply amazing. And in a sense I had the opportunity to attend that school too through Rowling's work, I too was allowed to escape the dreary reality of Stonewall High and head along down Diagon Alley and eat chocolate frogs with the gang on the Hogwarts Express and fight the forces of malice and ill-will through Harry Potter, a thoroughly human individual who attempts to overcome his setbacks in life and learn what it is to love, and be loved, and stand for people and values that give meaning to one's life.

I dont remember because I read it then i was 12 or 10

Ah, perhaps you would care to use the Pensieve to revisit your memories from the time?

Ok, thx. Now scurry off back to Neverland Ranch..

Why are Slytherins so mean?

There's no need of it.

true, my man. true.

because white people are evil

>I think I like Rowling best for her humor.

My thoughts as well. That's why I think the last books went downhill. They became too serious and lost the humour in the way. And it's the same with new play, too much intensity and too little fun. Not to mention that plot twist is foreseeable from the moment the character is introduced. Still, I did like it, while I had to force myself to go through last novell.

As I remember from the first novels, more than half of them were nonsense fooling around, some teenage angst and them some plot with Voldy henchmen at the end. Fun, simple and enjoyable.

>manipulative evil Dumbledore
>Weasley bashing
>hardcore Dursley abuse
>why didn't Harry become an angsty independent vigilante lmao

HPff cliches are so fucking horrible. Have you read Northumbrian though? I love family, canon-faithful stories like that.
There's also an ongoing OC romance Grow Young With Me that captures canon personalities really well imo.

>the beautiful girls like Hermione

Okay, now you're overdoing it there.

>That's why I think the last books went downhill. They became too serious and lost the humour in the way

I'll allow this since it is the last book after all. It would be more jarring for it to be as lighthearted as the early ones.

>Have you read Northumbrian though?

Haven't read that. My days of scouring FF.net for worthwhile HP fics are over, now that I'm mostly reading old literature.

It's too late, Hermione is seen as a huge bombshell because of the movies, even though she's supposed to be a plain girl who becomes prettier later on.

Rowling straight up said in an interview that all the main characters are too good looking, and she probably wouldn't have chosen Emma if she didn't speak on the phone and found her perfect. But that's movies for you.
Personally I don't share the hatred for HP movies like a lot of people, I think they're good adaptations and did the best they could. It's just that when you reach books 4-7 it's completely impossible to show all the stuff that happens and you inevitably get scenes that happen several months after each other. Still I like 'em.

>she's supposed to be a plain girl who becomes prettier later on

I still remember that fanfic cliche where Hermione "grows curves in all the right places" over the summer.

This board is for adults only

I re-read the first novel quite recently in order to appreciate what exactly I enjoyed so much about it all those years ago. And I was surprised by how much goes on in so few pages. It's 200-pages long, around 80,000 words perhaps, yet we are introduced to Harry Potter, his background, the existence of a magical world, Diagon Alley, King's Cross, the Hogwarts Express, Hogwarts, Harry's two new friends, to Snape and Dumbledore and McGonagall and other staff members, to a new form of currency, to a new sport (Quidditch), to the four Houses, to a brief history of the magical world, to a fight with a troll, and several magical tasks (the flying keys, the Wizard Chess, etc) and to a final battle.

And doesn't seem forced or too superficial or lightly portrayed. It's clear the author knows a great deal about the world she is talking about and what is going to take place. She provides the exact amount of detail necessary to introduce us to a world she herself knows every details about, and her enthusiasm for it is communicated not only through her humour but through her rather casual explanations for the various phenomenon that are obviously unfamiliar to us.

Not only that but the research Rowling conducted and the efforts she made to give the magical world some grounding in the reality we are acquainted with lends the work a sense of seriousness that it would lack were she to have simply made everything up. She references the Philosopher's Stone and reminds us of the "magical" aspect of our own real-world history with the Alchemists and so on. The names of Dumbledore and Voldemort both *mean* something etymologically. The word Quidditch is a portmanteau of the different balls used in the game itself. Privet Drive is the perfect name for a stereotypical suburb defined by its gossiping neighbors. Almost every name is selected for a definite reason, and this itself lends depth to the novel and provides further intrigue to the reader.

Also the plot itself is amazing. Nothing is wasted. There is no spare material that is irrelevant to the plot, nor is the central plot the only one in the book. We learn of Neville's rise from cowardice to bravery (he is granted house points for trying to stop Harry et al. from sneaking out at night). We are introduced briefly to the collectible wizard cards that come with the chocolate frogs (a real-world phenomena the reader will relate to) and the name Nicholas Flannel who later becomes central to the three characters' research. Hagrid lets on that he met a strange man in the pub in Hogsmeade, who we later discover to be Quirrell ("t-t-troll in the d-dungeon!"). There is the sub-plot of Harry attempting to overcome his family woes and his longing to live in memory and imagination (with the Mirror of Erised). There's a great deal going on in the first book, yet it isn't overwhelming or too sparsely distributed. It's a very fine novel.

You forget that beauty isn't merely related to one's superficial appearance. Hermione is beautiful for more than just her looks, which obviously are beautiful considering Viktor Krum asked her to the Winter Ball.

1-3 are really good "children" literature that anyone can enjoy, something like The Hobbit.
I do enjoy the later books, I think they have their own advantages, but it becomes more serious fantasy instead of something that conveys fables.

spot-on, fellow

I agree, and I like the fact that as Harry Potter and his buddies mature so does the writing style and the story itself. From a rather innocent Boarding School-type lark the story becomes a rather dark, serious one about jealousy, regret, loyalty, romantic longing, and all the other things which make a great novel. It's like the writing itself matures alongside Harry. It really is a remarkable achievement, I am tempted to say it's the finest children's tale ever told. We have the nerdy and underappreciated main character (who male readers are likely to associate with), his nerdy and prudish female best friend (who female readers are likely to associate with) and the jokey, impoverished, rather unintelligent but ultimately loyal best male friend that many people can easily find a real-world equivalent to (much like Samwise Gamgee in LOTR). Other children's stories have involved a magical school (Worst Witch) and many have involved a boarding school (Tom Brown etc) but few are as widely plotted and richly populated as Harry Potter. I can't imagine a children's story will be written in the next twenty-five or even fifty years, maybe much longer, that will achieve what Rowling has achieved. She invested fully in this world and it obviously paid off. It's playful and fun but also serious and tragic, a perfect reflection of real life as the young readers it appeals to are slowly discovering. And the main thing is that it treats the magical aspect of the novel very seriously. It's not just bananaslips and talking cats. There are rules and laws and so on which mean that the world we are introduced too seems entirely plausible.

>Hermione is seen as a huge bombshell
>emma watson
Yeah no

>people are this knowledgeable about harry potter

if only people on Veeky Forums knew this much about moby dick or ulysses

Watson is a top-tier female user. Just look at that boyish face structure, my fucking dick.

the fourth was my favorite as a teen

Why do wizards celebrate Christian holidays? Was Jesus a wizard?

>favourite book

Goblet of Fire

>shipping
Harry and Hermoine, I used to read all kinds of fanficiton about it back in the day

>writing
She has a great talent for worldbuilding and setting scenes, I'd get upset when people weren't allowed to go to Hogsmeade because that shit was magical.

ugh I didn't mean to say Goblet, I meant Order of the Phoenix.

Face it, Ulysses and Moby Dick and most other classics are very boring books. That's not to say there's no merit in reading them and that there's not a great deal to be learned from them, but still, they are very boring. Sure there's "a point" to reading 100 pages about obscure facts pertaining to the whaling industry, but it's no fun. Maybe it is "plebeian" to say that, but it's true. Ulysses is humorous and so on but again it isn't essentially fun, it's essentially something you read because you are aware it's intimidating and complex. But I am tempted to assert that the fundamental values of one's life are the same ones you held as a teenager. The essence of one's character and disposition towards others is something that forms when you are young. Mature, adult books are variously means of coping with an existence that is brutal and meaningless, of finding quiet but relatable voices amid the din of cultural pressures to Succeed (TM) and subscribe to unappealing ideologies, to learn information about lives and jobs and cultures that you would otherwise remain ignorant of, to be reminded of the beauty of the world and the beautiful way in which this beauty may be transcribed, and to laugh at yourself and at the supposed seriousness of adult life. And while children's writing may be simply expressed and rather superficial in its moral teachings and proposed means of living a wholesome life, there is something there that appeals to the child in all of us, the innocent individual which only wants to do its best and see everybody living happy in a world governed by justice and joy. Bad children's writers will preach with a sober expression, or they will appeal to selfishness and malice in the guise of humour at the expense of others and of stories wherein self-pity and entitlement govern the fate of the protagonist. They may even forego any attempts to be at all serious and simply entertain their reader and provide an experience that is funny but without any pedagogical merit. But good writers, like Rowling, are trying to establish the possibility to virtue and goodness in a world that is often very bleak, and unfair, and governed by forces well beyond one's power.

>naming

This is also why I compare her to Dickens. Almost all of Dickens' names have meaning.

>the jokey, impoverished, rather unintelligent but ultimately loyal best male friend that many people can easily find a real-world equivalent to (much like Samwise Gamgee in LOTR

And almost everyone hates because "muh betrayal"

Because wizards can be Christians too, user.

Imagine Rowling making the wizards pagans or wiccans. Imagine the shitstorm.

What do you mean?

I know you're joking but in the Harry Potter universe, yes, he probably was.

>tfw Aristotle and Plato are wizards and their works reflect the truths of magic that don't apply to muggle philosophy
>e.g. Transfiguration is a hylomorphic exercise of applying form to matter

Deepest lore

>you will never go shopping in Diagon Alley and see your crush with her parents and notice her blushing when she briefly looks your way
>you will never get on the train to Hogwarts and share a compartment with your best mates and eat jumping chocolate frogs and many-flavored beans
>you will never go swimming in the lake beside your school on a warm sunny day
>you will never walk around the school grounds on a chilly morning with your qt crush and hear your shoes echoing from the stone floors
>you will never read books in your house common room as it rains hard against the windows and a crackling log fire keeps you warm
>you will never join Dumbledore's Army and hang out secretly with your buddies while plotting to overthrow the evil head mistress
>you will never walk through falling snow down to Hogsmeade with your buddies and your qt gf and have drinks in a cosy pub
>you will never walk along the dim and silent stone corridors at night on your way to the library to study for an upcoming test
>you will never stay over at The Burrow and whisper with Ron in the dark about the girl you like in the attic bedroom
>you will never be The Boy Who Lived
>you will never get dressed up for the Winter Ball and wait nervously for your qt pale-skinned date to arrive
>you will never make out with your qt Gryffindor girlfriend behind the greenhouse where Professor Sprout teaches
>you will never sit down to a feast in the Great Hall with candles floating overhead and everyone joking and laughing and sharing your plans for the Christmas holidays

Christmas was probably included because of its importance not just in the life of a schoolchild, but also because of its importance in regards to the way British boarding schools are run - the Christmas break is one of only two times in the school year, excepting summer break, when the majority of the school's students return home. Although Harry never does this, it also provides us with a look at a Hogwarts almost devoid of students, and allows for Harry to reflect on the experiences of the year so far and to build his relationships with whoever happens to stay at Hogwarts without being interrupted by school.

Thematically, the early books always seem to take a darker turn during the Christmas break, going from mostly light-hearted boarding school shenanigans to darker plotlines as the school empties and its secrets become more readily accessible.

It's also worth mentioning that Christmas is an excellent way for the reader to see exactly how the wizarding world differs from ours - we can directly compare and contrast the way we celebrate Christmas to the way Hogwarts celebrates Christmas and see exactly what changes versus what stays the same. A lot of the other parallels are more esoteric in nature and difficult for children to directly compare with how things are done in the real world, and Christmas rectifies this issue.

It's also a time of year that children reading the novels actually enjoy, meaning they feel less desire at this time of year (which itself feels rather magical with the snow and the decorations and Santa etc) to escape the dreary Muggle world.

Also, for reference:

Book 1: Harry and Ron stay at Hogwarts and Harry finds the Mirror of Erised

Book 2: Harry, Ron and Hermione all stay at Hogwarts, Hermione brews the Polyjuice Potion and turns herself into a cat

Book 3: All three stay, Harry receives the Firebolt broom, which Hermione reports to Prof McGonagall

Book 4: Most students stay to attend the Yule Ball

Book 5: Mr. Weasley is attached by Nagini, Harry and Ron visit him in hospital then spend Christmas at Grimmauld Place where Hermione joins them

Book 6: Harry and Ron go to The Burrow, Hermione argues with Ron and spends it with her parents

Book 7: Harry, Ron and Hermione spend the holiday searching for the Horcruxes, Harry and Hermione are attacked by Nagini at Godric's Hollow

shame.. At least I wont get raped by the bigger boys.

bump

The aesthetics of the "boarding school" experience fascinate me.

I feel like I missed out on a tremendously fun, unique, Romantic experience by not having attended a Philips Exeter type school. Not some turn-of-the-century British school for young men, or whatever, you know what I mean.

It seems like it would breed tremendous nostalgia, and allow for a lot of great experiences during your formative years. Plus it's Veeky Forums as fuck. Why is the boarding school experience (which Harry Potter obviously harnesses) such a powerful subject in coming-of-age art?

>Why is the boarding school experience (which Harry Potter obviously harnesses) such a powerful subject in coming-of-age art?

I dunno. Maybe because it's already around since the Victorian era?

I agree. I am a poorfag who attended the type of school Harry would have been sent to had Hogwarts not come along (Stonewall High). But boarding schools have always fascinated and appealed to me. The idea of wearing formal clothing and learning the classics from teachers who actually realize you exist just seems so great, and the idea of being friends with guys who enjoy discussing that sort of thing and meeting girls who have more going on than euphemism and willed stupidity is something I think would have benefited my development and prevented me from having such a dire perspective of life. I think in part the appeal derives from the sense that it is really like another world, where your parents aren't the ones who cook for you (the anonymous and unseen houseelves or working class untermensch do that), where you are part of a small community with shared values, and where you are expected to attain a degree of independence as something more than a child. It's difficult to feel like a worthy protagonist when you're sharing a house with your parents and siblings and attending a school where you are marginalized by brutish oafs and forgotten about by over-worked and often indifferent teachers, but in boarding schools you are swept away to a different world where you are told again and again that your life has value and that much is expected of you, and where all these other children arrive as if from the ether to discover it with you.

Kill me

>Moby Dick
I remember when I bought into the memes and read this book. I remember the part where the narrator sleeps in a bed with a strong, powerful black man, and they instantly become """best friends""" after he shows him his long spear.

Classic American novel, all right. Took a while for it to crawl out of the subtext, but interracial lust is pretty much the defining trait of Yanks.

That explains why it's called Moby DICK

Wow, never thought I would see a good Harry Potter thread on Veeky Forums. And it's actually better than your average Harry Potter threads out there.

There are 40 people in Harry's year at Hogwarts.

Question is, how many can YOU name (without cheating)?

this

bump

Good post desu

>Why is the boarding school experience (which Harry Potter obviously harnesses) such a powerful subject in coming-of-age art?
From a storytelling perspective, it's convenient, isn't it? Adolescents all in one place together, removed from the adults in their life. Putting different kinds of kids together to become friends is easy, and it creates the opportunity for the children to have to solve their problems themselves without the help of their parents. If you're writing a coming of age story, then surely the characters are going to school, and making it a boarding school solves many of your potential story problems.

Tbh I think you're confusing the ideal boarding school represented in stories with real ones. Most real boarding schools are not all that different from regular ones. People don't magically become ideal versions of themselves just because they go to a different kind of school. Actually in my experience they really just filter out the privileged students from the unprivileged, and you get a community of rich kids who are often quite soulless, along with teachers and staff who harbor resentment for the students' lack of perspective.

Why do you hurt me so.

I've been spending a lot of time thinking about these books lately. Every year my Grandmother would send me the newest one and I would read it. I was so invested in that world as a child, I was the generation that grew up with them, y'know?

I've been thinking on them and nearly crying lately. It's such a perfect encapsulation of the wonder and mystery of growing up. Thinking of their experiences, it feels as if something is missing from me. It's killing me.

>>the beautiful girls like Hermione

True, she's a nigger nowadays

Speaking only about Ulysses here, but it's not worth reading only for the accomplishment factor, only for the fact that you will triumph over something intimidating and complex! I think reading them for the language is fun. Sometimes you read something that perfectly captures a complex emotion.

I think he's trying to say that it ruined his character. Samwise was an important character. He helped Frodo in many ways. I think he might be trying to say that Ron didn't feel like a necessary character in the end, Hermione and Harry did all the heavy lifting, and Ron was a sort of tagalong.

But I don't know. Think about all the times Ron was necessary. The wizard chess thing, the Tri-wizard tournament, ummm... other times... lol

From what my father has told me, high school at Philips Andover was pretty much just studying and extracurriculars. No time for chasing girls or sneaking around.

But then again, he's pretty withdrawn with regard to his life anyway.

Ron saved Harry and Hermione from Nagini by using Dumbledor's illuminator to find them in Godric's Hollow. He also uses the Polyjuice potion to help them sneak into the Ministry of Magic, and he helps Harry escape from the Dursleys', and he helps Harry fly to Hogwarts when they can't get on the train. Ron is a great character and you'd do best to let him be. *draws wand*

I love Deathly Hallows and Half Blood Prince the most.

Rolling for Hufflepuff

I did like Deathly Hallows but I was disappointed in the resolution. Here's what I didn't like:

>Harry and Malfoy never had a final confrontation, or a serious discussion. I understand part of Malfoy's character is that he's mostly talk, but I feel like something more serious should have happened between Harry and Malfoy.
>I didn't like how Snape went out. I think he should have had an opportunity to sort of speak his mind, to have serious conversations with Harry, or Voldemort, or Malfoy. Watching his memories in the pensive was kind of unsatisfying as Snape was dead. After all of it I wanted to see his reaction.
>Snape's motivation in general was disappointing. I understand love his powerful, but he went through all that trouble, risked his life so much, just because he loved a woman who died many years before? That was really his sole motivation for helping Harry out all that time?

Also Ron saved Harry and Hermione from each other.

Harry, Ron, Hermione, Hannah Abbott, Ernie McMillan, Dean Thomas, Seamus Finnigan, Neville, Padma and Parvati, Lavender Brown, Crabbe, Goyle, Draco Malfoy, Pansy Parkinson... Shit, not as many as I thought I'd remember. I also feel like I'm forgetting some important ones. Were Cho Chang and Zabini Harry's age?

What was the house breakdown? Were there actually 40 people in his year, or just 40 people that were named over the course of the book? That number wouldn't make sense because I thought I read once that JK Hackling said there were around 1,000 students at Hogwarts.

Cho Chang was younger, but there was another gook in the year, Ravenclaw I believe. Zabini was in Harry's year, yes. A Slytherin.

You're forgetting Milicent Bulstrode for one, and I think Seamus Finnigan was in the year above.

Emma Watson is really not that amazing looking, i've never understood the obsession everyone has with her.

40 per year, ten per house, 5 boys and 5 girls. She has confirmed this as she didn't make clear who the "missing Gryffindor girls" were but said she knows who they are. I don't think she ever claimed there were 1,000 students, after all there are only around 800 characters in Harry Potter total.

Bite me

>tfw im a drty mggl

cuz we grew up with her