Did she really hate Joyce? I heard she panned Ulysses and just flat out hated Joyce as a person

>implying you can't find an example from every great writer disparaging some other great writer, which by your logic makes every writer shit

It doesn't bother me if it's just a great writer, but we're talking about Joyce. If you dislike Joyce, then you seriously have shit taste.

Get your cult of personality tripe outta here you vapid cunt

Why aren't people able to tell that this is just bants? No serious person would disregard an author because of a single comment about another author.

Ulysses is trash so it's ok

>Pulls the "prose" card in a Woolf/Joyce discussion
Man you are talking straight out of your asshole.
Both Woolf and Joyce are considered masterful prose stylists, just google Woolf vs Joyce and see how much discussion there is on the matter. Prose is practically a nonentity in the discussion, differences in the artistic merit between the two are negligible.

The real difference lies in the content, and while Joyce's strength lies in allusory themes and intricate nuances, he can't even touch Woolf's characterization and psychological insight. The depth of her existential scope is so granular it rivals Dostoyevsky. Joyce gives you that thrill of masterful intricacies, but Woolf writes to your fucking soul it's so intimate. Saying you won't read her work because she BTFO'd your favorite book only hurts you.

And she did respect Joyce's writing, she was just being overly critical in that letter.

>serious person
>Veeky Forums
That's why.

>And she did respect Joyce's writing, she was just being overly critical in that letter.

I agree with everything you said in your post (I'm not the person you're replying to), but can you prove that last statement? Would be pretty interesting to hear her say something nice about Jamesy

Meant for

Are you also going to disregard Nabokov for all the meany things he said or Tolstoy for his opinion on Shakespeare ?

>, he can't even touch Woolf's characterization and psychological insight. T
He literally was able to write a character who went on to write the novel equivalent of an epic that houses him.
You're speaking out of your ass.

Isn't he that guy who writes about... Little girls?

I wouldn't be caught dead reading that creeps work

>Joyce's strength lies in allusory themes and intricate nuances
I disagree, I think Joyce's greatest strength, aside from his prose, is his character development. The way he seamlessly changes perspective in his writings is nothing short of mastery, and his characters feel like real people because they actually are.

I'm on a phone and Im eating, just google it. She wrote many letters and essays and mentioned Joyce quite often, there was somewhat of a rivalry between the two.

But I'm reading, eating, and on the phone too. Come on, can't you just prove it a little?

cornfather loved Tolstoy
it was Dostoevsky he thought was dreadful

She once wrote in her diary "what I'm doing is probably being better done by Mr. Joyce" or something to that effect.
Shit's not loading on my phone.
Anyway she was obviously very intimidated that her prose and stream-of-consciousness was being rivaled by a crude Irishman

might want to re-read that sentence

fuck off

>''Whatever the intention of the whole, there can be no question but that it is of the utmost sincerity and that the result, difficult or unpleasant as we may judge it, is undeniably important.''

She said much worse i think

How does Woolf compare to Joyce?

Thanks I just spit out my coffee

>reading mrs dalloway
>DUDE EVERYTHING IS LIKE THE OCEAN LMAO
>I'm a woman lol xD I want to fug Walsh
>I'm unique and different to the other womyn because I AM A LESBIAN TOO
I don't know. Does it gets better later?

Well, Joyce is like what a fedora-wearer thinks is high literature. Woolf is okay

She couldn't have disliked him that much. She mentions Joyce positively once or twice in her essays. I'll try to find the exact quote later today, but she may have only dislike one or two of his works- certainly not all of it.

kys

I don't think any book will ever get 'better' for you, try videogames

What did Tolstoy say about Shakespeare

If that's what you're getting out of it you may as well just drop it and pick it back up after puberty

Joyce is great but please leave. Your insecurities are showing. Also kys

Joyce is the greatest English writer of all time, with Ulysses he bested Shakespeare.

>kys

This needs to be filtered

or at-least become a bannable offence

same with "lmao"

kys lmao

easy Jimmy, you're good, but, please relax.

kys

>This needs to be filtered
No. Whenever I say it, I genuinely want you to. The fact that I say it should make a pretty convincing argument for your suicide. I can tell from a very small part of your post that you possess no content, and, are dead in the most meaningful way possible already.
Pop that balloon already.

My opinion of her has improved greatly with this knowledge.

I don't think Joyce is bad, but some of his work is just utter bullshit. I share her frustration. I respect people willing to call out bullshit and look stuffy, instead of pretend to like it for 'le epic trollz xD'

>the DFWposter is massive fucking pleb

I think you're trying to say something. Please continue.

Congrats on not reading Ulysses or at best only skimming over it

You people are silly. I can recognize that it's "bullshit" and still love it. Show some composure when you don't understand something. It's fine, no one is judging you.

>bullshit
kys

i could take him or leave him

>>>/fk/

There's nothing to understand. He even said in interviews, it's all meaningless. It's proof that that some people () will choose appearances over objective truth. "Wow, if I tell people I understand this, I'll look really smart!"

And of course, there's a lot of people in literary circles who are just here for a sense of esteem, so they flock to this bullshit, and it appears as consensus.

Ulysses is kindling.

>No. Whenever I say it, I genuinely want you to. The fact that I say it should make a pretty convincing argument for your suicide. I can tell from a very small part of your post that you possess no content, and, are dead in the most meaningful way possible already.
Pop that balloon already.

Kys lmao

>tfw virginia woolf will never sit on your face

she was very ugly, this is an extremely flattering angle

>There's nothing to understand. He even said in interviews, i
Way to misunderstand him, retard.

If anyone here read her diaries, then there probably wouldn't be need for such discussion.

She got Ulysses to review, and yes, she didn't feel that it was a good book as whole (for example the women voices, all two there, don't feel authentic). She mentions in the diaries, that everybody else there was just praising joyce, and she's writing like she has shown Ulysses to (I think) Katherine Mansfield and she read some small part and immediately said, that 'This is important, this will be taught in the future'.

Woolf than somehow admits, that it would be better to read that book again and somehow reconsider it, but she also thought that some parts of the book are just unnecessary onanism, where Joyce could show how great writer he is. And everybody who has read Woolf's books knows that she has really really different approch to the book.

And then there's diary entry when Joyce died. From that note you can see that she's sorry that he died this relatively young and that she's, after the time had passed, thinking more politely about Joyce.

>There's nothing to understand
Even if this were true, so what? You completely missed the point of my very plainly used statement.

>character development

he was bad because he exaggerated

true
yikes...

No, she was decent looking when she was young

This.

I think killing yourself would make it all better.

She changed her mind towards the end.

Don't be silly. Get off Veeky Forums. You sound so young and silly and 4channy.

Why do you think you have to understand everything you see ? Can't you appreciate the joy of absurdity once in a while ? I'd bet you think surrealism is pretentious, too.

literally kill yourself lmao

You can also piece together from how much time she had and what she was doing that she didn't succeed in rereading Ulysses like she said in her diaries. She was saving face because everyone still loved Joyce.

Yeah, I know that; it just felt unnecessary to add.

Although your claim that she was just saving her face seems irrelevant to me (and why lies in the personal diaries: she haven't published them, probably wasn't planning to do so). She still didn't sound convinced of the full greatness of the Ulysses and I guess a lot of people can relate to that. The last entry about Joyce is more about that it's sad he died and it's even more sad since everybody knows that she hasn't live much longer as well.

One last thing: it's completely normal that artists/writers don't share the same view on things. You know, it's funny that T.S. Eliot was so much critical about poetry of G.M. Hopkins (and everybody else was praising him hard); Eliot didn't change his view a bit, through the time, re-edtions, and critical success of Hopkins' poetry.

My grandma gave me this book to read and I'm finding it difficult to follow; I've never really read modernist literature before.

Can anyone offer tips on how to go about approaching the book?
A way of thinking about it so I understand it better as I'm reading it?

Or is it one of those art things where you're meant to feel confused?

sory 4 pleb

She was butthurt.

this is a pic of virginias mum

No, don't do it Septimus.

I would start with Mrs. Dalloway instead. I like Woolf but it is taking a lot of effort to read anything in the stream of conscious style.

She got hooked on TS Eliot who was a massive Joyce fanboy and wouldn't shut up about him. That's when she started to get nasty because Joyce was getting attention and not her. Joyce also didn't like Eliot all that much and was always very cool with him (and often outright hated him).

I think as she realised she'd thrown her hat in the wrong ring she mellowed out.

So, guys, what's going to be the final solution for neo-summerfags and pseuds?

Just call them plebs

Not him, but really? I was going to give to the lighthouse a read soon, though I wasn't under the impression that it would be difficult.

I mean, is it more similar to Ulysses or Dubliners?

Couldn't tell you, have only read a little of one of those. I just remembered hitting a wall with Woolf when she got into that long winded yammering.

It's not difficult at all. Barely even unconventional.

I would say none of Woolf's books are hard to understand.

I've heard Woolf described as being a lot denser than Joyce, but net easier because her books aren't nearly as long.

I hate Joyce and I don't even know the guy.

Well that seems weird to me.

Her most unique work, The Waves, has a very unusual writing style but it's not hard to follow or understand.

user doesn't want Virginia Woolf to sit on his face because she was sexy, he wants Virginia Woolf to sit on his face because she was Virginia fucking Woolf.

It's not very similar to Dubliners.
I found it hard to follow because it was dreadfully boring so staying focused was a chore and I had a translation. I barely remember it by now.

>Joyce also didn't like Eliot all that much and was always very cool with him (and often outright hated him)

From what I've read Joyce had this kind of issues with more writers. You've mentioned that T.S. Eliot was praising Joyce (till Ulysses), same goes for Ezra Pound and others: and that's because Joyce in Ulysses made english sound new and sice that's what these modernists poets were trying to achieve...

But, I read some letters between Pound and Joyce (you all probably know how much of a Pound is behind Eliot, especially The Waste Land). And Pound was giving advices to Joyce (during the publications of Ulysses parts in papers I believe), to improve his work. But Joyce's responses were cool, and it seems that he was so sure with himself, that every word there was a word of genius; he only wrote to Pound to make sure that his writing will be published and he will have money and so (that's because Pound was really influential at that time among the artists and publishers).

if i was coming at it from her perspective I would probably hate it as well. I just finished Oxen and the sun the other day with all the endnotes that the oxford world classics edition has. Without those notes there to ground me and explain what he was doing mimicking different styles throughout the years and the whole 9 month pregnancy thing the text would feel very alien and unenjoyable to me. I imagine even with Virginia's heavy literary background there was no way for her to catch all the trickery that joyce employed in that chapter.

You guys saying you won't read her because of that are pretty stupid.

Was there ever any time that Joyce spoke about Woolf?

Is this user right?

I doubt it. He was probably too busy with schizophrenia and eye problems and Finnegans Wake to bother with that.

TtL is commonly either loved or hated on this board. Those whom it doesn't resonate with dislike it. Many consider it their favorite novel. Similar to A Sun Also Rises and White Noise around here.

Writers are shit critics, they're too close to it and they also have their egos in the way. Just look at what any writer says about anyone. They usually have 5 writers they worship and don't really keep up with anyone else, and very often dismiss incredible writers based on the shallowest quirk.

it lessens the impact really
if you order people to commit suicide so often that you need to fucking initialise it, then its pretty hollow

No. It has long sentences and some extended simile but stylistically it is very simple. It's not plot focused at all so if you construe characters' internal thoughts/feelings as difficult then I guess yeah. I very recently read it as my first Woolf (and I love Joyce btw) and really loved it

yeah. they devote their lives to writing and they have this idea of what a book "should" be and what constitutes good writing so as soon as they see something incongruous with their views they all start firing shots at each other.
Especially Nabokov, I don't know what that guy's deal was