“But the Koran cannot be ignored, as it is a work of genius we badly need to study.”

I read it using the Quranic Arabic Corpus, which includes the several translations and a complete recitation concurrently with The Cambridge Companion to the Qur'an, a monograph on the development of Islamic law, and an important early prayer manual called the Scripture of Imam Sajjad.

Ive heard that in the original Arabic it is a great work of art, but that is from Muslim friends so of course theyre biased. Have an English translation copy and from the bits Ive read it really does just seem like Desert Jews 3. Not that it isnt unique or should be dismissed. It just seems to me very much like the other Abrahamic religious texts. A lot of specific ritual descriptions and vague moral commandments expressed half through story half through explanation.

>h-he's only a genius on m-my terms"

Kill yourself every /pol/ faggot

>learning a literal sandlanguage in order to read the holy book of a bunch of faggot LARPers because my favorite memecritic told me to
nah

Congrats, you've been completely solipsized by the Internet
R.I.P

What is with these shitposters and their inability to comprehend English?

>LARPers
kek
(kys tho)

don't worry about that, already planning on it

It's like a fine vase of pottery

Dude, if your rampant secularism is so fucking blinding that you cannot appreciate religious literature, then you're a pathetic asshole.

I mean, for God's sake, atheists are supposed to be the ones who realize this stuff is human created (whether they believed in their prophecy or not is another matter, see Blake's Marriage of Heaven and Hell). If that's the case, then try your hand at writing a fucking sacred text with such fiery, spectacular prose, one that so beams with intense vision into the very heart of human hearts, that it inspires billions of followers 1400 years after your death.

Refusing to even engage these massive piles of genius because of a minor, contemporary politico-philosophical position is so stupid it makes me want to cry.

The Holy Book is only the beginning, as it is in every religious tradition - there's a lot of faggot larper philosophy, calligraphy, law, poetry, and history you can't appreciate without having learned to appreciate the Qur'an.

*gets murdered*
Wow, this guy is audacious.

The Koran is pretty amazing. A single guy sat down and thought to himself, "Gee, how do I make the most voracious, bellicose religion in the history of mankind?"

Bloom was right. Muhammad designed the first megameme.

He married a 9 year old in his fifties. Pretty audacious, m8

>first

I like the way you think, user.
That's all I wish to say.

This guy also thinks rock music ended when The Band broke up.

I don't and I think user is at least as much of a faggot as the lolpedoterrorist memeposters

You're a better person than your opponents here. Don't bother with these /pol/-tier faggots, no one else here likes them.

>no one likes them
How come sissies of every kind always fall back on those exact same words, regardless of context?

what a dumdum lol

its what their mamas taught them

post ur dick btw

because no one likes you

Moses was a lil bitch who had to get his brother Aaron to say everything for him.

David was just smarter than everyone else

I don't like any of you and yet I don't feel the need to claim that this opinion extends to every other faggot onboard this ship, nor pretend that this constitutes either an argument of relevance or an effective jab. You don't have to show yourself to be a little bitch all your life either. Some effort!

Moses literally ordered the execution of hundreds of children. He spared the girls who were virgins so that his army could use them as sex slaves.

Pretty audacious, senpai.

doesnt mattr, no1 likes u
mor efrt thn ur worth t b h fag

>what makes an illiterate nymophilic desert warlord audacious?

Ex-muslim here, most of the Quran sounds a rap song when you translate it. 10/10

Great post, I feel exactly the same.

>nymophilic
what is this word?

We do what they like with the Englis language, fuck your comprehension

>muhammad is the author of the koran
The fucking jew.

Then why don't we deport Bloomington to his beloved Arabia?

lol'ed epically @ your post

Carlyle told me all I need to know about the Quran.

Namely, that it is a badly written OT ripoff, but that Mohammad nonetheless accomplished much. I can't go so far as to say I admire the so-called Prophet, however.

He says passages of the Quran appall him like parts of the Book of Deuteronomy.

>being disgusted by the word of G-d
And people take this kike seriously?

"Though necessarily Muhammad has literary debts to Jewish and Christian texts no longer extant, his shattering spiritual and imaginative originality cannot be doubted. No one else in human religious history has given us a text in which God alone is the speaker. Audacity, a crucial characteristic of Muhammad in every way, marks the Koran's achievement of a literary effect unlike any other. We can never relax as we read it, or when we recite it, alone or with others."

Choice of language aside, the idea behind this is what makes the Qu'ran and its religion brilliant in a sort of evil way.

It is engineered as a perfect mindvirus that preserves itself at every level.

>Desert Jews 3

Im actually fucking crying

>We must convert and kill all kafir scum. الحمد لله ربّ العالمين

What did he mean by this?

lol'ed epically @ this epic post!

What did he mean by this?

He actually did everything he did, I suppose. I mean, everything that wasn't miraculous.
The fact that he was wildly successful.

"This is a book of religion"

OP here, I unfortunately failed to remember that /pol/ remnants still lurk here (and pretty much anywhere). From a Christian, apologies to any of our Muslim family that may have been offended.

It's only memes.

It's mostly the even shitter boards that actually fall for them.

...

I have one big issue with Islam.

First, let me say that I have many Muslim friends, and they are some of the kindest, most magnanimous people I know, and it is because of their religion. The religion has the capability to cultivate great generosity and virtue.

However, Muslims must accept that the Qur'an is the verbatim word of God. In this sense, Islam is inextricably fundamentalist. This is not bad in itself, but the problem is that the Qur'an prescribes a jurisprudence that is fundamentally incompatible with the Western principles of equality under the law, and taken together with the Hadith (things Muhammad said that aren't in the Qu'ran) also fundamentally restricts free speech.

This is the reason that the vast majority in Islamic nations support Sharia law, including the majority of Muslims in the US. If given democracy, they would freely vote to have their right to vote taken away for a Sharia theocracy.

The problem with Islam — and this issue is essentially unique to Islam among major religions — is that it is not just a personal belief system. It is also a system of law and government.

This is a meme. From where did it come?

And yet, that is not historically the case.

But it has been, ever since Muhammad. Sharia has its origins directly in the Qur'an and was formalized and instituted shortly after his death. The Qur'an is quite explicit that these are to be government laws, going as far as to enjoin punishments.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_criminal_jurisprudence

Is it really a meme? I couldn't find it anywhere else.

How come Turkey's 90+% Muslim population doesn't vote to instill Sharia? ??

Also a religious text doubling as a legal document isn't unique to Islam you big dummy. You're just looking for an excuse to parrot Sean Hannity-tier memes.

>However, Muslims must accept that the Qur'an is the verbatim word of God.
No, the conservative view is that it exists alongside God in that it always was and always will be.

Please don't strawman; I don't even know who that is.

A religious text doubling as an explicit legal actually is unique to the Qur'an among all major religions. The old testament says that certain things are proscribed, but these are entirely amenable to interpretation as injunctions for the faithful in their *personal* lives. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that there must be legal punishment for anything, nowhere in Buddhism is there any such thing, Hinduism is too nebulous, Taoism obviously not, Confucianism no, etc.

Only the Qur'an says "If someone does explicitly this, so-and-so punishment must exacted."

For example, Qur'an 5:38: "[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." You will not find any explicit legal enjoinment like that in any other major religion.

It seems that 90% of Muslims in Turkey explicitly disobey Qur'an 5:38. Its injunction could not be clearer. There is honestly no interpretation for 5:38 but its explicit imperative.

>Nowhere in the Bible does it say that there must be legal punishment for anything
You might want to read the thing.

>for God's sake
I see what you did there.

You literally said Muslims would vote away their rights if given the option. I pointed out that Turks haven't done that. You're the one strawmanning, dummy.

Also:
>the Old Testament
>he thinks this is the sacred text of the Jews

Yeah okay you don't know what you're talking about.

And you have to be kidding about about the Quran verse. You think there's no legal equivalent in other religions?

Half of Leviticus is a list of the specific punishments (including stoning nonbelievers at the gates of Jerusalem) meriting specific crimes.

Have you ever even heard of Hebraic Law?

It's quite literally a plagiarism of Jewish, Christian and Mesopotamian myths. The former two are also plagiarisms of the latter.

If you prefer your desert-people folk stories to be told from the perspective of one man then it might be worth reading. Likewise if you seek to understand the reason there are areas of London and Paris that the police are afraid to police right now it may also be of interest.

>there are areas of London and Paris that the police are afraid to police right now it may also be of interest
Someone's lead a sheltered life. Yes there have always been areas in major cities the police are scared to police but it has nothing to do with Islam.

islam is internationalist judaism with an arab base

So international judaism?

The Qur'an is largely God saying to Muhammad, "O Muhammad, tell them this: so-and-so." The Qur'an is a narrative of the things God said to Muhammad. And God often speaks in the first-person in the Quran (using the royal We), indicating that at least those passages are, well, explicitly the verbatim word of God. And because it was recorded verbatim in the original tongue and God chose specifically to speak in Arabic (God says "Indeed We have sent [the Qur'an] down as an Arabic Qur'an so that you may apply reason"), it must be the verbatim word of God.

Furthermore, the Qur'an explicitly says that the precise prescriptions therein must be interpreted literally, not metaphorically.

Qur'an 3:7: "It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord."

Per the foregoing, the 90% in Turkey are not following the clear orders of the Qur'an.

I was wrong about the Bible; I had not read Leviticus, which seems to be a very different flavor. I should not have extrapolated.

I wonder how Rabbinical Jews deal with that. How do they deal with that?

>Per the foregoing, the 90% in Turkey are not following the clear orders of the Qur'an.

Maybe they are. 5:39 (literally right after the chopping off of hands quote) says,
>But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, indeed, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness.

So in most cases, there's no need to chop of hands, since petty theft isn't severe enough to warrant so. Like, that user was literally taking the quote out of context, wtf.

It says that Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. Not that if they repent you should not chop off their hand.

It can say a lot of things if you wish it so, but common sense says that normally you don't need to chop their hands off, you sick fuck.

>I had not read Leviticus
Exodus... Numbers... Deuteronomy... there are a number of laws and explicit punishments throughout the old testament p much.

It seems that you are "following that which is unspecific, ... seeking an interpretation [suitable to you.]" Seems you're ignoring Qur'an 3:7 (quoted in ) about following "the precise verses, the foundation of the book", and in your heart "is deviation."

The Qur'an says to follow the precise verses foremost and relegate the imprecise verses/interpretations to a secondary status.

>And because it was recorded verbatim in the original tongue and God chose specifically to speak in Arabic (God says "Indeed We have sent [the Qur'an] down as an Arabic Qur'an so that you may apply reason"), it must be the verbatim word of God.
Mu'tazilite heresy.

A bit interesting; that's a nuanced interpretation of what exactly we mean by "the word of God." Nevertheless, coeternal or not, the Qur'an is quite clear that it is literal.

>Writing a paper
>Put a quote in the paper
>Teacher: "what's the cited source user?"
>user: "fucking google it, bitch"

To answer my own question, it seems orthodox Jews have essentially always dealt with it more or less in the following way:

They interpret the capital punishment as the correct and just law, but that they don't know how to properly try someone in an intrinsically flawed human jurisprudence. They sometimes came up with jurisprudence that attempted to be completely just and amounted to something that was impractical to carry out.

Can this be carried out with the punishments in the Qur'an? No. The Qur'an details a legal system for trial involving either four witnesses or a man swearing to Allah the truth of his accusation four times. In the exact same sentence (in particular, 4:15), it says that if the four witnesses all say the woman committed adultery, she is to be killed.

It is incredibly difficult to wriggle one's way out of following the jurisprudence of the Qur'an.

Difference is most anons here would be my students.

Lmao. Thanks for quoting a verse from the Qu'ran that says only God knows the correct way to interpret its lines. How are men supposed to follow things to the letter if those things ultimately escape his comprehension?

Seriously, if everything is supposed to be taken literally (you won't find that phrasing in the text) why are there Hadiths, you stupid Orientalist bug?

And how are you going to come into this thread (striking a "fair" tone no less) singling out Islam for its incompatibility with muh Western civilization when you've never even heard of Leviticus?

You're not some religious expert. You've read like two full Wikipedia articles. Every time you post you have to admit another error on your part.

Get the fuck out of here and get back to spit blasting Sam Harris' unwashed asshole, you fucking Kaffir

In summary, as the guy who keeps quoting the Qur'an about the inextricable nature of Sharia law from faithful, that is my only point.

The foundations of Sharia law are imperative to the believer. The Qur'an is quite clear that injunctions and warnings are the verbatim word of God speaking in Arabic specifically, specifies that the unambiguous passages must be interpreted literally, and then precisely details both a prosecution and punishment system.

Therefore the foundations of Sharia law are inextricable from faith.

I haven't read the entire Bible, but I did think it was enormously stupid on his part to at least not know about Leviticus to Deuteronomy.

I have read the Qur'an. My point is summarized in . I do single out Islam as incompatible with Western values, and that is why.

I knew about it of course, but I hadn't recalled that it also specified punishments, especially since even orthodox Jews do not seem to follow them. .

Bullshit you pseud, maybe you should try actually reading it. It was literally a third of the fucking book.

It's a very difficult book to read in Arabic even though I speak the language. I tried to read a translation once and it was hilarious. This shit just can't be translated niggas.
How does Veeky Forums explain Muhammad being an illiterate fuck writing this huge chunk of dense literature? Niggas didn't even know of the greeks back then. I'm not a muslim but I'm still triggered.

Yes, I was incredibly stupid about that part. I was stupid and wrong.

But I have read the Qur'an and my only point is , and I have quoted passages that give an extremely strong testimony to that thesis and how, unlike the punishments in the Torah, those in the Qur'an cannot be wriggled out of. I hope that even if you do not agree, you can see its validity as a stance.

I think the most interesting thing about the Koran is the order of its construction.

The Koran is composed of various revelations communicated to Muhammad on various occasions over a number of decades, with many of said revelations being specifically addressed to said occasions.

However, the Koran as we read it today is not composed of the verses in the order of their revelation - the verses were organized according to the wishes of Muhammad after his death by his companions. It is striking that a collection of disparate verses written over a period of a number of decades came together at the end to form a cohesive piece of poetry

>one that so beams with intense vision into the very heart of human hearts, that it inspires billions of followers 1400 years after your death.

See Scientology. Most people are idiots

Scientology doesn't have even a fraction the number of followers Islam has. Scientology has not inspired empires that have spanned 1/3 of the inhabited earth, as Islam has.

I doubt if Scientology will exist in the next 40 years, let alone the next 1400 years.

>westerners arguing about Islam

Muslims were the first memers
>God be praised
>Priase God
>God is Great

Well, every conservative culture is probably like that, but it is nonetheless ridiculous to anyone mildly educated.

This, absolutely atrocious. If you haven't read pic related at least once don't even bother.

I have read the quran twice. Am I still not allowed to talk about Islam because of my blue eyes, üntermensch?