Friendly reminder that the NASA team behind testing the EM drive just postulated it had to do with PILOT WAVE THEORY and physics is about to be finally blown wide open and built from the ground up again as it should have been long ago.
Glorious pliot-wave masterrace coming through
>user, don't waste your career studying a fringe hypothesis like pilot-wave you are very bright and can really make something out of yourself
Hahahaha look who got the last laugh now?? Shut the fuck up and don't tell me what to do bitch
>The particle must simultaneously travel through both slits and bounce off itself
Holy shit how can your model be so retarded and obviously wrong? Einstein knew that shit was wrong.
Pilot wave theory was so obviously perfectly elegantly the correct answer this whole time and those that defended the Copenhagen model should be extremely embarrassed.
The NASA team basically admitted they have no idea what they're talking about. They published in a journal that does not have relevant expertise. If this is your evidence for pilot wave then it only proves how weak it is.
Nathaniel Turner
Pilot Wave a shit
Gabriel Hernandez
>believing in the ramblings of French madman
Cooper Fisher
Quantum drones are buzzing already
Not for long
Carson Hughes
well all physicist are going to die alone, virgin and penniless, while normal well adjusted people will keep using simple newtonian mechanics and some relativity when needed and live good, balanced, normal lives
Owen Bailey
Dude you barely passed Calc II and then majored in Mechanical Engineering.
Shut the fuck up.
Asher Sanders
Bohmian view makes way more sense. I don't know why the community is resisting it when every actual lab experiment lends support and their "silver bullet" is a debunked thought experiment.
Jacob Powell
TRIGGERED
Sorry about the last 8 years you spent learning about what amounts to what will be a footnote in a future physics book chapter about an old theory that was proven wrong hahaha
Thomas Kelly
Confirmed for not ever having taken QM1. Are large part of QM is independent of your choice of interpretation, so basically everything you have learned in the Copenhagen interpretation will still be valid in any other interpretation.
But of course you wouldn't know about that, majoring in mechanical engineering :^)
Caleb Davis
>believing anything but a deterministic, cyclic universe
zoz
Michael Edwards
Please enlighten me, Mr. theoretical """""scientist""""
How can you be science if you make it all up in brain? :^)
Jack Edwards
We Qualia now?
Jonathan Taylor
You need an IQ over 80 for that.
Noah Sanchez
>80
I see. When the limit is this low, no wonder theoretical physics is such a laughing stock right now!
Charles Bailey
>no wonder theoretical physics is such a laughing stock right now! Please elaborate
Hudson Harris
EM Drive. QED.
Christopher Baker
I don't see what the EM drive has to do with theoretical physicists?
Robert Ross
Thats what happens when you are only an ~80 iq """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""scientist""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" user. You don't see how things relate.
Thomas Allen
[Shitposting loudly]
Jacob Roberts
...
Sebastian Rodriguez
>Glorious pliot-wave masterrace coming through bells theorem shows that hidden variables do not exist. experimentally the theorem was confirmed.
pilot waves is a wrong interpretation.
Jeremiah Young
>it's been empirically proven that there is no such thing as a hidden variable >Pilot wave theory posits a hidden variable How many falsehoods can you pack into one post?
Lucas Miller
Are finally going to use magnets like a properly developed civilization yet, instead of blowing up chemicals like some chinese part time rice farmer who just discovered gunpowder?
Dominic Hughes
Combustion is more efficient; it works very well with little in the way of fuel
Which is probably why people weren't looking for EM means of energy transfer
Daniel Butler
>efficiency >propulsion using electricity >mfw you think combustion is more efficient
John Phillips
>has nowhere left to run >screams shitpost
Carter Murphy
>tfw too intelligent to fall for the quantum meme
Dominic Ward
>has never seen a science department from the inside >thinks he understands QM Stay mad, Cuckineer.
Charles Reyes
Only nuclear reactors will provide more power to input ratio
Fuel/gunpowder is far more efficient than batteries
Parker Turner
Where do you think we get the electricity from chucklefuck? You think we can just pop that shit out of thin air?
Zachary Evans
Kind of related/unrelated
Does the doppler effect help limit us to speed c?
ie speed up > light frequencies shift up > energy per photon increases > energy has to come from somewhere
Angel Ortiz
Tesla intensifies
John Sanders
ME major here, Im doing QM next semester, I thought all MEs have to do QM?
Henry Flores
He's just mad user. I honestly feel bad. Would suck knowing your research is about to be defunded in favor of another soon-to-rise model within the next few years.
Evan Bailey
This is a trollpost
Grayson Ramirez
Also isn't this a problem with time dilation
> green clock is traveling at near c from blue to red how does blue clocks perception of green clock affect red clock?
Easton Morgan
>PILOT WAVE THEORY
Summarize the basic gist of this interpretation would you, since the Wikipedia article contains autism.
Zachary Sanders
But people have built quantum computers already, and quantum entanglement has been shown to be real. Probability of QM is something you cannot escape from.
Jaxon Adams
pilot wave theory is quantum mechanics, you dumbfuck
Wyatt Russell
That particles are in fact actually just little balls, and that they cause tiny ripples in the fabric of space-time which they then ride on. Which is where the particle/wave duality comes from.
As you can see it explains some of the most important phenomenon in an incredibly elegant manner.
Adam Moore
RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY WON'T REALITY BEHAVE LIKE OUR MODELS RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Faggots.
Isaiah Taylor
Pilot-wave is what actually explains entanglement in a proper manner.
Juan Ramirez
Any scientist who thinks pilot wave theory is tenable is a crackpot. One of the many logical inconsistencies: Position and momentum are supposedly real but hidden, yet polarization is indeterminate. Why? No fundamental reason...only that Leggett tests proved polarization cannot be a predetermined value of a particle. So hey presto, let's conveniently drop that from pilot wave too so it can agree with experiment and we can imagine particles still exist.
Isaiah Sanders
>Heavily implying
Nicholas Murphy
Wew lad!
Joshua Watson
Maybe polarity is caused by what direction the particle is spinning?
Owen Martin
I'm reading about how Pilate Wave Theory violates locality. How so?
Caleb Roberts
>physics is about to be finally blown wide open and built from the ground up again no shit. NASA is a fucking fraud and gravity is just a concept. not a real thing.
Brody Flores
>Fuel/gunpowder is far more efficient than batteries >tfw no explosive propulsion
Tyler Smith
Care to explain? I'm genuinely curious
Ethan Wilson
They say it's based on stochastic electrodynamics. So does that mean they're using a half-classical model where the EM field is classical but electrons and shit have pilot waves pushing them around?
Matthew Sullivan
That's not a logical inconsistency.
Andrew Morris
Anyone have a simple explanation of how pilot wave theory explains the meme drive?
Also this vid kinda made me like pilot wave theory, but even if false it's still pretty cool. youtube.com/watch?v=nmC0ygr08tE
Nolan Martinez
This seems to explain perfectly the particle-wave dualism. Why doesn't it get more attention?
And this is their own paper that they cite on that point, which only briefly mentions the pilot-wave interpretation at the end, among several other interpretations: ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150006842.pdf It doesn't seem to discuss the EM drive either.
I haven't looked into it in detail, but on the surface it looks like they're bullshitting. The fact that they mention both the pilot-wave interpretation (an interpretation of quantum mechanics) and stochastic electrodynamics (an attempt to reproduce the predictions of quantum electrodynamics with a stochastic but classical field theory) makes me suspicious they have no real theory.
To be generous to them, maybe there's some non-peer-reviewed paper they've written that explains all this, which someone following this can point us to.
Leo Jenkins
I do believe in a deterministic, cyclical universe.
Feels bad to know I've already lived this shit life 9346943869953591649762916761943731828372816461946181673184619237681618 times
Adrian Cook
What I find somewhat suspicious is that the reported thrust gets weaker and weaker: NMPU 2012 1 mN/W - NASA 2016 1.2 µN/W. The real experiment will be
Jace Edwards
One of the reasons The Bohemian mode was not well recited is that it implied a form of faster than light travel/communication. The waves from a single particle would ripple throughout the entire universe, everything affecting everything else in a very interconnected manner. Thus if two particles are entangled it simply means they are riding on the same wave.
Chase Foster
>The Bohemian mode was not well recited Wonderful. Can I have that sentence?
Ryan Davis
Nice that they mention the bouncing droplet thing (in the first paper), I didn't think it would be that important.
Joseph Hill
>I haven't looked into it in detail, but on the surface it looks like they're bullshitting. The fact that they mention both the pilot-wave interpretation (an interpretation of quantum mechanics) and stochastic electrodynamics (an attempt to reproduce the predictions of quantum electrodynamics with a stochastic but classical field theory) makes me suspicious they have no real theory. But it kinda sounds like they're saying stochastic electrodynamics and pilot-wave theory are in the same class of models/closely related, no? >A family of models categorized as vacuum-based pilot-wave theories or stochastic electrodynamics (SED) [9] further explored the concept that the electromagnetic vacuum fluctuations of the zero point field represent a natural source of stochasticity in the subquantum realm and provide classical explanations for the origin of the Planck constant, Casimir effect, ground state of hydrogen, and much more. I'm not well-versed in this stuff but from their paper I get the impression that waves in the zero-point field act as pilot waves.
Oliver King
>But it kinda sounds like they're saying stochastic electrodynamics and pilot-wave theory are in the same class of models/closely related, no? That's what they seem to be saying, but as far as I can tell, that's wrong. They're not closely related. They're very different ideas. Stochastic electrodynamics tries to get rid of all the quantum stuff except for the randomness, whereas pilot wave theory keeps all the quantum stuff, adds more stuff, and avoids the need for randomness (although it's still possible to have pilot-wave theories with randomness in them). I'll admit I don't know much about stochastic electrodynamics. But it looks like the only connection they've made between the two is that someone came up with a version of the pilot-wave interpretation with randomness in it, and stochastic electrodynamics has randomness in it.
>I'm not well-versed in this stuff but from their paper I get the impression that waves in the zero-point field act as pilot waves. They say this, but that is not a statement that makes a lot of sense. As far as I know, there is no separate "zero-point field" in either standard quantum electrodynamics or in stochastic electrodynamics. There is just an electromagnetic field with uncertainty/randomness in its value; this uncertainty is called the zero-point fluctuations. Maybe this is something that would make sense if they explained it better, but the papers they cite barely mention pilot waves.
It's not that important. As far as I can tell, they're just mentioning anything that got a lot of press.
Nolan Baker
This
Adrian Rogers
I'll believe it when it generates thrust in space. When they actually do the experiment, no thrust will be observed, and we will be back to the universe obeying conservation of momentum again.
Logan Thomas
They should have left this theory shit out of the paper. It gives the impression that they are biased toward finding anything that could back up their own pet theory. It would have been another thing if they could have theoretically derived the observed amount of thrust, but I don't see anything like that.
Joshua Baker
Likely.
I the meantime I would certainly want some earthside experimentation to get a more efficient cavity or simply one that produces unquestionable thrust.
Joshua Bailey
>the ego of physicists at this very moment
Ouch. If the EM Drive works, what will you do with your life? Will physicists have to go back to undergrad so they can compete with 19-year-olds?
Where will this rank on the list of great discoveries in science? Is this a bigger deal than splitting the atom?
Veeky Forums casual here.
John Powell
Does it really work? When will we know for sure?
Carter Campbell
Can somebody create one of those anarchy balls with the long list of criticisms of Pilot wave theory.
Something like
"When your theory violates quantum mechanics and relativity and is contrary to experimental evidence but it's okay because you want to return to the 1700's anyway"
Adrian Collins
>Bohmian view makes way more sense. I don't know why the community is resisting it when every actual lab experiment lends support and their "silver bullet" is a debunked thought experiment.
because >muh qft, muh renormalization group
Jackson Hill
It doesn't work.
Sebastian Reed
>*desperately wishes*
Seriously, what will you do if it's proven a wingnut in a literal cuckshed in England has dismantled everything you learned? If this turns out to be true, any physics degree earned before 2018 will be utterly worthless.
You may as well have majored in Esperanto.
Lincoln Myers
You are mad because you wasted your life studying a shitty theory that could be resumed by : lol it's quantum, I ain't explaining shit. Now let the real scientists work.
Xavier Jones
But that makes no sense, pilot wave is just an interpretation of the actual experimentally verified math, just like copenhagen. Anyway I hope it turns out to be true regardless of how this memedrive shit plays out, from my noob perspective it looks elegant.
Benjamin Bailey
>it looks elegant. its not. non relativistic PWT looks ok and is easier to understand than QM, but the PWT equivalent of QFT is a big clusterfuck with retardedly long equations and all kinds of ad hock bullshit like treating electromagnetic fields completely diferent than other fields, having non local effects where a whole field changes across all of space instantly and much more.
Blake Mitchell
Pilot wave theory is the true quantum theory. Copenhagen interpretation is shit. What will PWT mean for the theory of everything?
Liam Hernandez
Spot on.
Mason Green
Quantum physicists BTFO. How will they recover ?
Isaac Sanders
>Feels bad to know I've already lived this shit life 9346943869953591649762916761943731828372816461946181673184619237681618 times sometimes Veeky Forums freaks me out very much, because i cant stop thinking what if this is actually not just some random post on the internet but the forces that be talking to me directly and making fun of me? maybe 9346943869953591649762 etc (sorry) is the *exact* number of times i have lived in a really deterministic universe and this is just the way the makers of this universe are using to make fun of me, but if i think too much about it they will punish me for uncovering their secret and maybe this will be the last time i end up living
i don't know if any of you can read me or if they took away my life yet, or maybe you ""can"" """"read"""" me but not really (like a sort of, solipsistic world, you know) because now you're just an idea in my mind, maybe i already angered the people (beings) that govern over my life and i'm no longer even talking to real people, but i don't understand because i don't recall doing anything wrong in my 934694386995459164 etc (sorry) lives and i don't understand why someone would inflict this pain on someone
can you please tell me honestly if you are a person
Jason Howard
From one schizo to another: take ya meds hoe
Christopher Ward
If you are currently on drugs (e.g. weed, LSD) those thoughts will fade away. If you are not currently high and still think this shit, see a psychiatrist asap.
Hunter Peterson
If it turns out to be real, it's huge, even bigger "than splitting of the atom."
Nathaniel Brown
If each iteration of the universe were to last until gravity eventually brought all matter together, creating a super massive black hole which caused space to furl back in resulting in a new singularity and a new big bang, then there would be far more interesting beings to mess with over each iteration's lifespan than you.
Isaiah Baker
From Cannae::
There has been a lot of erroneous information in media articles regarding Cannae’s upcoming launch of a cubesat mission into LEO. To clarify our previous post and press release: Cannae is not using an EmDrive thruster in our upcoming launch. Cannae is using it’s own proprietary thruster technology which requires no on-board propellant to generate thrust. In addition, this project is being done as a private venture. Cannae is only working with our private commercial partners on the upcoming mission.
What did they mean by this?
Jonathan Morris
This is by far the most cancerous post on Veeky Forums all year
YES (YOU)!
Why do you come here for anything other than intelligent discussion? Does it feel good putting someone else down just to feel better about your opinion? What do you gain?
If any of you have proven anything it's that this board is as dead as /b/.
sage goes in all fields
Gabriel Sanchez
that stuff is 10 years old.
Zachary Gomez
Being non-local is basically a kill shot to PWT. There's no good way to have instant effects when the meaning of "this instant" varies by location. Also, if there can be effects that ignore relativity, why don't we observe them in anything else? Why is every other physical process constrained by the speed of light except this?
Luke King
>Cannae is using it’s own proprietary thruster technology which requires no on-board propellant to generate thrust. what would that be then?
Blake Russell
>unironically caring about the material world
Jackson Ramirez
Cannae is a microwave cavity resonant thruster like the EM Drive.
But they're not the same. Cannae has slots in the back or some shit.
Microwave + metal tube.
Nathan Edwards
>no explosive propulsion what else is an internal COMBUSTION engine?