F A S C I S M

is fascism the most Veeky Forums ideology?

or Vorticism if they're English

Considering how many useful idiots who don't read post about it positively, (who couldn't give a solid fuck about its ideas or living up to them, mind you) probably not.

It's probably not currently the belief for read people. The community is impossible to mesh with.

>Fascism
>Right wing
Fascism is center, there have been both right wing and left wing fascism

Not many people really understand what fascism is, they do the same as with right wing (it's everything i don't like!) And don't see it for what it is (a polarizating pragmátical philosophy that focuses on creating an us vs them mentality that gives you a big mass of crazy loyal followers)

Veeky Forums should be called /marx/ and stick to debunking memes or some shit. This board refers every discussion about the philosophy of fascism to /pol/, but talks of class struggle or some other Frankfurter Juden crap is totally in line with the boards' rules.

But more amusing.. Will this dumbass board ever recover from the fact that their politics will never amount to anything now that the Bern's over and that the alt right, despite its lack of consensus ( becuz u tots n33d 2 all agree b4 u get power, yeah that's why the NSDAP couldn't rise to power ), has more influence than their shitty "oh we can fash goy meme too!!!" attempts at humor and activism?

>Will this dumbass board ever recover from the fact that their politics will never amount to anything now that the Bern's over and that the alt right

Oh no a new group of awkward young men from red states are being fed bullshit from media companies with connections, this is totally new and won't happen again.

Why are you asking for recommendations when this isn't /wsr/?

>fascism is centrist
Stop this meme
Corporatism, which is the general economic system of fascism, isn't necessarily left or right but the aesthetic of fascism (appealing to nationalism/patriotism, traditional values and homelife, etc) are distinctly right wing
We've had threads about conservative philosophy many times, newfriend

You sound butthurt /Pol/tarde, don't worry, we'll tell leftist that want to discuss política to fuck off Too.

Have fun destroying your shitty country while you discuss irrelevant shit with leftist and rightist, ideology is a meme and anyone that has one is doomed to fail

...

is there any aesthetically motivated political ideology that isn't almost entirely supported by vulgar morons?

you know. something that devalues human life, but whose supporters are self aware about it.

No
Appealing to aesthics is the literal use of feels over reals

>you know. something that devalues human life, but whose supporters are self aware about it.

What do you mean by devalue in this sense. I'm curious.

Nope. Fascism is for the pseuds among the pseuds. Veeky Forums can be pseud, but not that pseud.

>Nationalism
You know who did that? The southamerican fascism of the last decade, all left wing. Fun fact, Hitler was incredibly progressive.
In fact, you have said it yourself, none of those things are left wing or right wing.

Fascism is merely a system to make people fall in line, there is no overarching theme other than
>One leader
>A close group of officers/ministers/etc
>A party system that slowly envelops the state and makes them undistinguishable
>A pragmatic view of democracy (if we win, good, if not, bad)
>An us vs them mentality, with both internal and external enemies (false eor not) that get blamed for all things bad
>A completely sophistical discussion
>A big propaganda system
>Persecution of opposition and restraint on freedom of speech

I bet you think fascism only existe in Europe during the 30's and 40's

well, a big part of the whole politics-as-art thing is the idea that life, and life's activities, are to be perceived artistically.

let me put it this way: if I'm the grand Artist-Dictator, trying to impose my vision on the canvas of the nation, then don't I need force to ensure that it's realized? the act of viewing a nation of people as artistic pawns, and being able to create a national image basically for the idea of having done it, doesn't really take into consideration things like human rights, civil liberties, or people's personal preference. intrinsically, people are dehumanized and loss of life isn't viewed as a terribly bad thing. either in war, which is a whole other fetish where this sort of thing is concerned, or in dissent.

The rise of awkward young rejects subscribing to an inconsistent mess of an ideology led to the most deadly conflict in human history.

>haha, nerds what r u gonna do, you need decent philosophical works intellectuals championing your movement before you can be of any significance :^^)

Clinton might be a fucking jingoist hawk, but she's right in pointing out that you shouldn't underestimate fringe ideologies like these.
But I guess millennials, as soon as something is a 'meme' for them, think it will remain a png file.

>South American fascism of the last decade
Examples?
Fascism =! A single-party authoritarian state with the use of propaganda
It's a militaristic, corporatist, authoritarian system built on some sort of nationalism

With an idolization of historically or mythical figures.
Chavism, kirchnerism, the brazilian PT party, correa's Ecuador are all expresions of fascism, they where all deeply nationalistic and anti-northamerican, with even a patria grande (Big nation) idea that came from Francisco de Miranda and proposed an united southamerican nation.
Just because murrikans leftist are particularly retarded doesn't mean the left can't be nationalistic or militarist, do you even know what left is?

communism is meta-aesthetic

>the act of viewing a nation of people as artistic pawns

This probably isn't a good idea at all. It never ends particularly well.

>the use of mild nationalistic/patriotic language means you're a fascist
you really don't know what you're talking about do you
you could claim that Chavist Venezuela has strong authoritarian trappings but that still doesn't make it fascist. Leftwing nationalism isn't fascism

I've made my claim and given you the basis of the reasons i consider them fascist, kirchnerism is an internal current of peronism, a political movement that is even more fascist that hitler's nazism, as in, it's directly lifted from mussolini's fascismo.

Now, explain to me why a deeply nationalistic, propaganda obsessed, combative political movement that fills all the points i've given about fascism can't be fascist.

I suspect you just do the same those retard leftist do when they talk about left and right and just make up your own definition of left and right. I repeat, what is the definition of left?

Usually fascism's ultranationalism is palingenetic and expansionist.

Because they havent banned all other parties, set up complete parallelism between party and state, and aren't extremely militaristic
That's what fascism is.

Leftism is the broad range of ideologies based upon furthering/inciting/exporting revolutions, destroying existing hierarchies, or removing from society that which is considered old and outdated.

I was pointing out this election has vocal people in it no different than people were vocal in the 70's and 80's. The alt right trying to brand itself as new and edgy and dangerous is just fucking ridiculous. It's the same shit marketed as "look! it's the same shit! we're saying the same shit but it's young people again! look!".

I would call them more dangerous with the internet however. Influence from spectacle on the undread is a lot more of an issue here.

They mark a dangerous move to the post-truth era, being a purely aesthetic phenomenon

Chavez venezuela destroyed its economy trying to gain diplomatic control over central and part of south america (petrodolar diplomacy, look it up) and that is pretty expansionist, the entire concept of patria grande is to enlargen all borders that cointain what is seen as teh "south american people"
As for paligenetic, they all were (claiming to bring forth the true ideals of founding fathers, that were missrepresented over time and have brought poverty and misery to the people), but specially argentina that was once one of the top 10 wealthy nations on earth, there palingenetics are in full use.

Most haven't been able to because they didn't manage to get a foothold strong enough in most countries, but that doesn't mean that isn't part of the core ideologies.
But venezuela has all of those, not only do they have one of the strongest militaries of the continent, they also have plenty of the ruling party on the military, chavez himself was a military commander. They also have mixed the party with the state to a point that it gets difficult to distinguish between them. The only thing they haven't completely managed to do is supress the opposition, but that is a modern reality given the nature of international diplomacy, if they were to just murder everyone on the opposition they would make diplomacy impossible.

That has nothing to do with left, left is a stronger central government that actively controls the economy and other affairs so taht (in theory) they are run more efficiently in the interest of the state.

* Michael Mann - Fascists
* Robert O. Paxton - The Anatomy of Fascism
* Stanley Payne - Fascism, A Comparative Definition
* Timothy W. Mason - Nazism, Fascism, and the Working Class
* Wilhelm Reich - The Mass Psychology of Fascism
* Antonio Sonnessa - Working Class Defence Organization, Anti-Fascist Resistance and the Arditi del Popolo in Turin, 1919–22.pdf
* Peter Staudenmaier - Between Occultism and Nazism (ignore the conspiracy bullshit out there on this topic, but this book is an interesting read)
* Adam Tooze - The Wages of Destruction, the Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy
* Enzo Traverso - The Origins of Nazi Violence
* Enzo Traverso - Fire & Blood

related:

* Stuart Hall - Race, Articulation, and Societies Structured in Dominance
* Steve Martinot - The Rule of Racialization
* Anne McClintock - Imperial Leather

WHY DO YOU POST A PHOTOGRAPH DEPICTING A NATIONAL SOCIALIST BUILDING THOUGH?

>most haven't been able to
Because they aren't trying to
>but m-muh Venezuela
They aren't fascist because they don't base their core off of nationalist/traditionalist conceptions of society

>that's not what the left is
Yes it literally is. Do you even know where the term 'the left' comes from? There are leftists who want less government influence in their lives; they're called liberals

We've been in a post-truth era for far longer than you realize. This started happening as observable in this context its in with Reagan. A figure in media.

Or how about California electing Arnold Schwarzenegger, or Minnesota electing Jesse Ventura.

Things have been relatively Videodrome-esque for a rather long time now. You could trace it to the start of the Cold War.

haha theres a michael mann other than the dude who did heat and the climate science guy

should have mentioned. this is just material on fascism in general. the book 'art since 1900' by buchloh and the october journal people will have some nice sources to look into for fascist art if you're interested...

these texts are good:
jstor.org/stable/261165?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
nybooks.com/articles/1975/02/06/fascinating-fascism/

Venezuela is pretty nationalistic and traiditionalist user, why do you claim they are not?
And i'd argue that yes, they ahave tried to, please explain why you don't think they have tried to do all those things.

In fact, liberals and neoliberals are right wing because of that, you are mixing left and right with whatever retards in murrika are using.

lol ya the liberal myth that trump and the right have been disrupting some imaginary historical period where politics was based on rationality and facticity is such embarrassing horseshit

shit i forgot the most important book! and it's the one that would interest you most! Klaus Theweleit's 2-volume Male Fantasies

I admit I'm not super well acquainted with Venezuelan society but given the amount of praise it's gotten from Chomsky I'm doubtful it's a bastion of traditionalism

>liberals and neoliberals are right wing
neoliberals yes, liberals no. Liberals were some of the biggest supporters of the French Revolution and the February Revolution. Just because they're at odds with the far left doesn't make them not leftist

>Chomsky
He can be great, but he can also be buttfuck retarded user.

But he probably wouldn't promote a heavily traditionalist society

Yes, that's a good one.

I agree but even Hitler's regime wasnt totally traditional.
They were traditional as long as it furthered the goals of their regime.

but they presented themselves as traditionalists at some level, even if it wasn't always a perfect match with their policies. A lot of their support came from lower-class people who wanted to protect their traditional values from the influences of liberal capitalism

fascism isn't traditionalist lmao it's futurist
wouldn't say I'm a fascist but there was some very interesting shit in there, shame the Germans had to ruin everything as per usual

I know reference about italian fascist architecture, mostly in native langue, I think you can find by author in english since I have no clue how to translate.

First, there is the works of Alberto Sartoris about modern architecture in 1930's Italia, Sartoris also made manifesto about racionalist architecture, in the aftermath of WWII he edit a encyclopedia in french collecting works from nordic, mediteran and american contries.

If you search about Marcelo Piacentini is POSSIBLE to find something about his works, he was the chief architect under Mussolini and responsable for some key projects to promote Italian Fascist State, he merge aspects of classic and modern architecture.

Giuseppe Terragni was other important architect, primarialy modernist but with an classic theorical aproach, Peter Eiseman wrote a book about one of his works, the "Casa del Fascio" in Como, (I've never read this one, I only studied Terragni)

The Fascist Party comissioned dozens of local seats to the Party, called then Casa del Fascio or Palazzo Litori, the Italia's State Archive edit a book about it, authro is Flavio Mangione.

I think there is a book under the title of "The Third Rome" that studies the relation of fascism and architecture, the author is a britsh professor (I couldn't read, because I couldn't find).

About the German Totalitarian conterpart, I remember two titles:
Albert Speer - Leon Krier
The Architecture of Opression - Paul B. Jaskot

and before you make your fascio out of sticks, please, read "Origins of Totalitarism", it will put everthing under a critical optic

Now, my contribution to this affable thread:

>YO.HANNA ARENDT, MOTHEFUCKER, HAVE YOU ALL HEARD OF?

they used a traditionalist aesthetic to promote their ideology even if it wasn't traditionalist in the De maistre/Evola direction. They wanted to promote the traditional forms of society (families, the chuch, etc)

>which I not only see as a political ideology, but also as an art form
What the actual fuck?

Argentina's Peronist party (the defining political party of Argentina, second largest country in SA) is directly descended from Mussolini's Italian fascism.

Not to mention that Roberto Unger looks and talks like an 80s cartoon embodiment of fascism

i think you have to contrast italian and german fascism. futurism was fascist but fascism wasn't futurist. (painting) futurism was degenerate by the nazi metric as a development of cubism

which is funny because the french didn't like the art either during the call to order because it was seen as too german. makes you think

fascist architecture is modern architecture like any other. for some reason le corbusier hasn't been mentioned yet

underrated opinion

i've never seen you post a pertinent or informed post yet. it's quite something

>Especially since communism was fairly anti-art in terms of political ideology
no it was not. it just that it tried to lower art to the common person, instead of raise the common person to art. this lead to a lot of either boring or just absurd art.

Non-ideology is not possible because of social materiality. The question is the function of the ideology. Anyway

a lot of confusion with the nazis comes from the fact that while they were obsessed with the past, it was not any actual past but rather an imaginary one. so the goal was not to, let's say, restore the actual monarchy, but rather to use bold modern measures to bring "back" a mythical german past of innocence and social harmony. it was a kind of fairytale feudalism where everyone knows their place, where the peasant is just as proud to be a peasant as a king is to be king, etc. the nazis inherited this fantasy from the various pan-germanic societies (goofy clubs for bored middle class dorks where they would fantasize about the mythical past and glorious future of germany; today they would be larpers or something).

Italian fascist cinema is really lame

The soviets and nazis handled the moving pictures so much better, does anybody know why the italians were so lacking?

utterly ridiculous post. crack a history book

well, given that the Soviets lasted a lot more than the other two, they had a lot more time to produce interesting movies. what italian fascist movies have you watched and can they easily be found on the internet? I have zero experience in this

>Nabokov wasnt an artist
>Ezra Pound wasn't an artist
>All of the people holding what would be considered regressive right wing values by modern society for thousands of years before us never had any artists among
Them your left/right dichotomy and shove it up your ass, you dumb faggot.

This

An example of fascist architecture

meadesshrine.blogspot.com/2016/06/ben.html
meadesshrine.blogspot.com/1994/02/jerry.html

Do yourself a favour and get to know Meades

Not that guy, but I've seen 1860, Scipio Africanus and some Italian short propaganda films, but yeah they definitely aren't en par with say Riefenstahls or Eisensteins films.

Indeed it is a good question, why did fascist Italy never produce ideological masterpieces in the period that the Nazis and Soviets pumped out classics by master directors
If I remember right, even the Cinecitta in Rome was opened during the fascist period
Well, we all know that right after the war (and even during the war) the new Italian cinema was already coming, it could no more be supressed by the crumbling authoritarian state. Thank god the axis lost, we wouldn't have Rossellini, De Sica or Fellini films

Libertarian socialism is

lol can you be any more insecure?

imagine looking at the world in terms of TRVE INTELLECTUALS vs "pseuds"

Fascism marks the Aestheticiation of Politics, this is why it has such great appeal even in our time despite of the many atrocities carried out by fascist regimes

literally r*ddit

good little goy

He's not totally wrong, user. A lot of Hitlers thought was born from fictionalized German history

Thank you for this

I'm actually fluent in German and learning Italian. Thank you senpai

literally all of modernism was the aestheticisation of politics. fascism was kind of late

National socialism is the most pleb form of fascism out there.

Italian fascism>national syndicalism>>>>>>>national socialism

nice (((list))) lmao

That is ugly as fuck and threatening for every person that goes by.

Trigger warning: may hurt fascist feelings by pointing out how counterintuitive it is to support literal corporatism because youre afraid of jews stealing your money

>its okay if im getting cucked as long as it is by someone in my arbitrarily defined ethnic group

No it literally was not. It started in Italy, with the lads Mussolini and D'Annunzio

>Wilhelm Reich - The Mass Psychology of Fascism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mass_Psychology_of_Fascism
>e Mass Psychology of Fascism[4] (German: Die Massenpsychologie des Faschismus) is a 1933 book by Wilhelm Reich, in which Reich explores how fascists come into power, and explains their rise as a symptom of sexual repression.
Psychonalysis

Why does lit believe in this meme?

Wilhelm Reich is a fucking nutjob

Busoni's essays anticipated futurism, but he didnt have anything to do with fascism.

Corporatism is the organization of society in different interest groups based on work, kind of like a giant labor union but with political representation (see the Constitution of Fiume).

And fascism doesn't necessarily support ethnic based nationalism.

constructivism?

So you means it gets the point across?

No such thing. Ideals of the left require the state in order to be enforced.

Left wing politics has a certain aesthetic too. Che Guevara, IKEA, portlandia, hippies.

>it's another "americans argue on their own retarded ideas of what is left and what is right" episode
why

...

>they used a traditionalist aesthetic

In their propaganda, not necessarily their art

>it's a "corporatism refers to literal rule by corporations" episode

Please read a fucking book.