A few questions for any vegetarians/vegans who may be roaming these boards.
What do you think happens to animals if we don't kill and eat them? Do you think they just live forever in magical fairy land?
They overpopulate, they starve, they dwindle, they inbreed then they can all be wiped out by one disease. A bullet is the nicest way a deer or any other animal can go
Animals do just fine on their own, arriving at a natural equilibrium. A lot of suffering may happen on their way to arriving at that state of equilibrium considering the human influence that has already changed their environment faster than they naturally adapt but whatever.
Feeling sympathy for animals you don't even own is a sure and easy way to recognize a retard though. Rare species can be protected and all but feeling bad for deer that hunters shoot is way up the list of dumb shit lots of people do right up there with not having kids.
Isaac Anderson
the livestock raised for food mainly is bred for the express purpose of food. Those animals not being bred to suffer and die in the first place is a pretty good outcome.
most vegans/vegetarians don't really care about you overcompensating by hunting, you myopic dork. most object to the way animals are farmed.
Sorry to ruin your masturbatatory fantasy that jerkin it while holding your precious rifle is some sort of subversive anti-vegan act.
Eli Kelly
>not having kids is retarded okay, please explain this one to me
Parker Turner
If you never have children you are literally a failure as a human being
Kevin Harris
I knew a former vegetarian who worked at an upscale butcher shop selling meat from heritage breed animals. His interesting rationale was that these animals wouldn't even exist if we didn't raise them. Because we created them - we bred them to be eaten, and if we don't continue raising them for that purpose they won't exist.
James Barnes
Yeah all those unwed teen parents and welfare queens with more kids than they can count are really winning as human beings! Literally! give me a fucking break
David Sanders
Sadly, they are - and your tax dollars are subsidizing the proliferation of their genes while yours die out.
Blake Brooks
One child costs over $250,000 to raise in the US.
Ryder Young
>suggesting I pay taxes I get a giant refund at the end of every year and I use that to take vacations and do other fun things that childless adults get to do. By all means, have as many children as you want, please.
Luis Powell
That's funny. It doesn't seem to cost those welfare queens anything. In fact, they get paid to do it.
Jeremiah Scott
If you don't pass on your genes, you are a failure of an organism. Simple as that. From the simplest standpoint, you dying without heirs nullifies the progress of every one of your forebears.
Hunter Reed
>Happily being the victim of the white genocide Aldous Huxley was so right.
Tyler Butler
>the proliferation of their genes while yours die out. How does that matter in any way? Once you're dead it's over and nothing matters. If you see the purpose of your existence as to assure your genes are well represented in Future World the best bet would be to have as many offspring possible with as many different partners as you can. Most of us choose more interesting ways to live our lives. Because you're not going to see Future World anyways. Why give a shit about it?
Brandon Parker
keep trying to justify that cost
Nolan Edwards
who has the patience for this retarded, half-boiled, sophomoric rhetoric? While I don't agree with what you're saying at all and don't even agree with what I'm about to say, your stupid argument can be dismantled simply by asking you why you place more importance on individual lineage rather than a species? By paying taxes to support a welfare queen's baby, I'm helping to propagate my species.
And what fucking "progress" are you even talking about? Having sex? lol This sounds like some incel shit if I ever heard it.
John Roberts
He believes in the magical power of DNA, like all other breeders. He sincerely believes that he will somehow be immortal, if he has children. He's not intelligent enough to override the animal parts of his brain that tell him this sort of thing is true.
Xavier Martinez
I'm comfortable that I'm an animal but I'm a thinking animal. I not only want to pass on my genes but also my values and my achievements to my progeny. If the laws were different, I would ALSO have bred indiscriminately to hedge my bet but unfortunately under the current system we must choose one or the other - which is the fundamental cause of the class divide.
Joshua Sanchez
>believing there's any chance of humanity dying out as a result of anything other than overpopulation >wanting humanity to simply propagate rather than advance >having no personal pride
David Watson
Isn't the class divide caused by people having too many children they can't raise? You take a poor person with six kids and take away five of their kids, suddenly they're middle class. Wow. Imagine that.
Aiden Sanchez
I'm not sure how any of that is responding to anything that I said, but good on you for trying.
Mason Cooper
>you dying without heirs nullifies the progress of every one of your forebears. Which is an amazing power to have, when you think about it. Having the luxury to simply say fuck that and be the last of your line - the apotheosis of your heritage.Let the rest of the world treat life like it's some kind of serious business. Some of us just choose to play around and give zero fucks. Because we can. >white genocide Being white gives me a lot of privilege that I enjoy taking full advantage of. The best part of it is that I get these privileges regardless of whether or not I show any allegiance to my race. So why bother? Do I care whether or not there will be white people in the future? Not a bit. I don't even care whether or not there will be people n the future at all. I'm not going to live to see it, so fuck it. I'm just out to have as good a time as I can before I die. I understand that, but I don't see any set of values in our culture that's so great as to be worth passing on. The stuff from the past that seems to have the most value is mostly the arts from what I can tell. So that's about all I'd be concerned with seeing preserved for the future. And even that I have a hard time giving an actual fuck about.
Parker Bennett
Or that they can only barely take care of and that spread their meager wealth so thin it becomes meaningless and ultimately absorbed by the 1%, who have exactly the right number of children to pass on their accumulated wealth to. Meanwhile the actual middle class is sitting around funneling money directly to the 1% by "doing fun things childless adults get to do" while they slowly, gently die.
Sebastian Thompson
I'm vegetarian for health reasons because I just saw my father pass away from heart problems five months ago. I could care less really about moral stuff
William Martin
You can pass on YOUR values to your children, user. Not society's values. You, yes you can make a difference in the world. It's truly sad that there isn't anything you care enough about to want to die knowing it will carry on.
Then you really are retarded. You've been brainwashed into thinking all lives matter equally. You might as well just put a bullet in your head because that's the ultimate expression of that flawed logic.
Isaiah Diaz
I don't really have values beyond aesthetics. I realized in my teen years that I was born rich enough that I could probably get through my entire life only doing what I wanted, so I pretty much became a hedonist. It's worked out pretty well so far.
Colton Gonzalez
You'll realize too late that you weren't born quite rich enough. Hopefully your parents will leave everything to your smarter sibling.
Adrian Harris
>YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY >but I'm glad I have kids
Christopher Baker
He doesn't have enough wealth to see its value. Some people need more than others.
Jordan Bell
And you need $250,000 per child
Camden Lopez
A bargain at twice the price.
Benjamin Lee
It's not how much money I get from my parents, but the Ivy League education and the way of carrying myself they instilled in me. I'm not rich at all, but I speak and carry myself like a rich person. This means when I work I get paid like one. Because people see me as part of the elite, even if I don't have the bank account to back it up. And that privilege is one you can coast really far on before the inheritance comes into play.
Evan Rodriguez
You must make them so very proud
Anthony Walker
Mostly this And the fact that eating them and raising them to eat them is completely mutually exclusive to population management which is more necessary than anything due to human influence
Michael Powell
Sorry to disappoint you, but we get along great. My sister gave them, grandkids, so there's no pressure on me at all.
Evan Butler
What's the point of good genes if you and your ancestors have to live like trash? You know what, back to with you, Nazi
Tyler Ramirez
Well that's fine then. They could afford to diversify their risk somewhat and it's paying off. Maybe they'll even live long enough to identify which one of their grandkids is worth a shit and leave everything to him.
Nathaniel Myers
>happily swallowing the poison pill >the people trying to save you are the nazis
Jonathan Howard
It's not like there's that much family money. The biggest part of what my parents gave us is being tall, well educated white people who are comfortable being in charge of others. If you can walk into a room and take charge of things people generally hand you the position of power if you ask. Very useful.
Asher Watson
>thinks having 8 kids and living in poverty will save the white race
Jason Brown
I think a few people in 1930's and 40's Germany including aryan Germans would disagree vehemently, if they hadn't been killed off, /pol/tard. Your containment board is that way.
Sebastian Ward
Yes, yes goyim, lower your quality of life to that of a third world shitlander in order to save your race. Be a slave to the welfare state, after all it worked so well for the Boers.
Sebastian Campbell
>You've been brainwashed into thinking all lives matter equally. I believe all lives are equally insignificant, yeah. I certainly don't believe some lives are worth more than others because none of them are worth anything. When the sun goes cold someday, none of it's going to matter either way, is it? Grow up.
Luke Lee
>Implying humanity won't have left this rock for younger suns long before
Actually if you're not going to produce anything just go ahead and kill yourself now please. In fact, if you want to take out a whole ghetto with you that'd be great.
Parker Carter
>When the sun goes cold someday, none of it's going to matter either way, is it? Grow up. This. Life has no purpose or meaning. One can choose to find meaning in it if you feel compelled to do so. And you can do things that future generations might appreciate if being remembered is important to you. But you're not going to be around to see it. And it really won't matter in the grand scheme.
Owen Edwards
Are you going to be alive long enough to see whether or not humans leave "this rock"? Do you intend to somehow magically watch the future unfold through your great-great-grandchildren's eyes? lol
Isaac Reyes
Whether or not there even IS a "grand scheme" there are infinite small ones. Wallowing in your own insignificance doesn't make you deep it makes you a cuck.
Jace Harris
There definitely is a grand scheme, but not literally. It's a turn of phrase, you rube. Now fuck off back to twitter or wherever retards like you jerk each other off and post pepe memes all day.
Justin Murphy
Well, I personally tend to suspect reincarnation is a thing. Whether or not that's right though I still want what's best for my children and my children's children. That used to go without saying and was a major functioning drive for society.
Jaxson Gutierrez
>definitely figuratively confirmed nonsense
Cameron Thompson
>I personally tend to suspect reincarnation is a thing and I personally tend to not, because I'm not retarded and I don't believe that something is real just because I've daydreamed about it.
Julian Wright
You don't understand the nature of consciousness any better than anyone else which is fundamentally not at all.
Lucas Lopez
>Wallowing in your own insignificance doesn't make you deep It can help your perspective, though. We live in a society where there are lots of people telling you this or that is important. And whether or not you accept that is a matter of choice, not absolute truths. Knowing that there's no reason not to live a life of self-interest if you like the idea of doing so. Because it's really no greater or lesser than a life based on ideals and beliefs, even though many would tell you otherwise.
Jacob Campbell
Sure I do. I'm conscious. And I know I've never seen magic or ever learned about any mechanism by which you could magically transfer someone's consciousness or soul or whatever after they've died from a human to a ladybug. Neither have you.
Do you have any legitimate memories from your previous reincarnations? By which I mean something you could actually validate in some way and not just a bullshit gut feeling? Give me a good reason to believe reincarnation is a thing and I happily will.
Alexander Perry
Believing in reincarnation is no more or less valid than believing in god, the tooth fairy ot trickle down economics. Believing in such things does nothing to change reality, but it will alter your perception of it. Knowing this you can choose your beliefs based on the perception of reality you'd like to have,
Evan Flores
>Believing in reincarnation is no more or less valid than believing in god, the tooth fairy ot trickle down economics You make it sound like any of those things are reasonable things for an adult to believe.
Christopher Reed
Reasonableness has nothing to do with people's beliefs. People believe shit other people tell them. People believe shit they like the sound of. Human beings are not reasonable creatures. They don't make rational decisions. Knowing this is a good starting point for dealing with them.
Benjamin Brooks
Read some of the research conducted by Dr Ian Stevenson and his team, there is considerable evidence to support the theory of reincarnation.
Maybe we don't remember our past lives for the same reason we don't remember dreams, the transfer of consciousness into a freshly "reset" brain pushes those memories down and out of reach. But lots of children can still remember their past lives with startling clarity, and often provide details of a previous life that can be confirmed as fact, even though their material senses had no way of discovering these details.
assmad liberal detected. the weak should fear the strong
Lucas Sanders
>there is considerable evidence to support the theory of reincarnation. lol
Joseph Fisher
I think you guys are missing the point. The difference between a belief and a fact is the fact can be proven, the belief can't.
Bentley Cox
Animals do fine without niggers like you
Bentley Lopez
>he thinks getting a refund means he doesnt pay taxes Idiot
Brayden Rogers
Bro refunds mean you paid too much in taxes over the year. It also indicates that you're in a particularly low income bracket and you have no real assets You're basically bragging about the ability to buy a ps4 and take one three day vacation a year
Christopher Anderson
How do you explain a child having information about a dead person that they couldn't possibly have found out through conventional means? When asked how they know, they assert in a matter of fact way that it's who they were before they died. And then strong emotional reactions can be observed in the child when faced with the claimed (and confirmed) manner of death? Explain phobias and birthmarks lining up with the apparent cause of death. The mother of the child recalling dreams, during pregnancy, in which she met the deceased, who said they would reincarnate as their child.
Now explain all of these exact same phenomena (and more) routinely manifesting in multiple diverse cultures that have had no significant contact with each other.
You probably consider yourself a scientific sort of mind, but your immediate dismissal of my claim, based on the assumption that you know better, is the least scientific attitude one can possibly have. I'm not asking you to believe, only to have an open mind. If that is beyond you then by all means, laugh away. Ignorance is bliss.
Colton Garcia
I mostly see this stuff as evidence for a jung style collective unconscious that at this point we can only accidentally access. There's no satisfying (to me) explanations laid out for where the new souls come from. We can't have as many napoleons as we do. He was only one man
Jose Smith
i for one eat only animal protein that i kill myself. Its not any moral position or any uber macho thing. I just feel like as a cook i honor the protein better when i know how much effort went into harvesting it. So i kill about 6 deer a year and catch thousands of fish, plus a handful of ducks and geese. i treat myself to one prime steak a year at a stupid expensive high end steak joint. >inb4 WHAT YOU KILL 6 DEER? i live in a place where they are overpopulated. I can get unlimited deer tags. any given day i see 40 or 50 deer from my stand.
Parker Roberts
I don't giva shit, lmao. I eat vegetarian for the budget and the challenge doing it pure.
Landon Davis
I (and Ian Stevenson) agree that leaping to the conclusion of reincarnation may be a leap too far given the current evidence. Stevenson considered every other possible explanation for his data, starting with the mundane (eg. faulty research, fraud) and including a collective unconscious, before suggesting that it might be reincarnation.
And the hypno-regression studies are routinely debunked. I don't think I've heard of one case where the subject presented past-life information that was historically confirmed, and that they weren't exposed to at some point.
Yeah I'm vegan but I'll hunt feet everyday. Those deer appear to live mostly full and free lives. Livestock on the other hand are born in a cell and die in a similar inhumane fashion. I don't think animals are better than people but they are aren't that much less. Also milk and cheese is fucking gross
James Morris
>bringing life and suffering into being for my pleasure is ok because my feelings
Mason Foster
>evidence >anecdotal miracles on TV
Only one of these could stand up to scrutinizing scientific study. Sorry but Noone cares about your spiritual nonsense.a
Owen Bell
That's a myth. Deer populations will be reduced in the short term by hunting, but the increased space and food results in a population explosion in the long term. Humans are no different, see the birth rates after the black plague or WW2. The hunting and gun industries, plus involved government functions, thrive on the propagation of this myth.
Leo Gutierrez
It was an interesting way to put it. These breeds wouldn't exist if we hadn't bred them so their continued existence is our responsibility. You can imagine what the butcher shop was like: all humanely raised heritage breed meat where they knew which farm each chunk of meat came from. Pork chops were $10/lb, but you could compare the taste of Berkshire and Red Waddle breeds if you were willing to shell out that kind of money. Turns out most people weren't. They went out of business.
Jason Gutierrez
Reminder that if you are so doggedly committed to believing all souls/consciousness are/is obliterated at death (simply another untested spiritual belief) you are probably a shitty person.
Blake Brooks
>Animals do just fine on their own, arriving at a natural equilibrium.
And how do they achieve natural equilibrium without natural predators?
By going thru your windshield, that's how...
Carson Butler
What if you don't buy into the idea of a soul in the first place?
Henry Hill
I presume they buy into the "concept" of consciousness.
Dominic Cruz
>consciousness. As in electrochemical signals processed in the brain? Sure. Something more mysterious than that? Not so much.
Leo Gray
Well then you need to realize that is just one theory on the nature of consciousness that can not be any more tested or verified than many others. If you are dogmatically committed to that belief then you are either an evil person, or you have too much trust in evil people.
Bentley Brooks
Don't believe in evil. either. Sorry.
Brayden Cox
So it is you then.
John Young
Reminder that if you believe the only consequence for being a shitty person is unfortunate reincarnation and afterlife you are definitely a shitty person. I'll give you a hint to the greatest indicator of a moral compass. Empathy, you can do no wrong if you don't harm another living being
Angel Stewart
>you can do nothing if you don't harm another living being ftfy
For some to succeed, others must fail. To believe otherwise is delusion.
Gabriel Nguyen
ive been veg for at least 5 years now i literally cant eat meat and i dont even want to i dont care if we kill animals or not, i know what my body wants
Connor Williams
lol yeah I do eat meat but I could easily give it up if I felt like I had some real reason to. It certainly wouldn't be because I feel sympathy for fucking chickens though.
Alexander Sullivan
i ate fish like a month ago and i really felt the difference, i felt much heavier than always
Angel Lopez
What is me, then?
John Jackson
Disregarding the philosophical circle-jerk/ hate-fuck that this thread has become, I don't eat meat for a variety of reasons. Firstly, there is cost/ health. I could buy some shitty $1 steak, but it would probably give me ass cancer. A vegetarian diet is cheaper than a conventional diet which includes meat of average (i.e. not $1) quality, with vegetarian protein sources also having more fiber and vitamins than meat. Beyond this, there is the impact which modern meat production has upon the environment. Methane, gas used for transport, water contamination, et cetera. Beyond this, there is the moral concern which I have with causing unnecessary harm and pain to living beings. Animals are fucking stupid, but most of them can feel pain and more-or-less understand what it means with the notable exception of mollusks and possibly other seafood. I don't really care about hunting/fishing, as it has a minimal impact on the environment when proper regulations are in place and the animals are killed quite painlessly when the hunter knows what he is doing.
tl;dr I'm a hippie faggot but hunting is fine
Zachary Sullivan
Not a vegetarian, but I have the vegetarian sensibility and wouldn't eat meat if it wasn't for my laziness.
If an animal has a death that is full of suffering, then it shouldn't be in the hand's of humans. That is why the torturing of animals is frowned upon, it's what exactly is and isn't torture that people debate on. If they suffer before they die and it's because of natural means, then it is of natural means, it's not the humans job to interfere. Not until we have the technology to properly assist them instead of 'mercy killings.'
The nicest way for a deer to go is the way nature intended it to go, not the way man intended it.
Andrew Perez
>If an animal has a death that is full of suffering, then it shouldn't be in the hand's of humans. That is why the torturing of animals is frowned upon, It's also why chickens aren't legally considered animals in America. Because the way we raise chicken is indefensible.
Nathaniel Torres
>not savoring the extra flavor in meat that was tortured to death
Carter Sullivan
nice try
Sebastian Collins
>Beyond this, there is the impact which modern meat production has upon the environment. Methane, gas used for transport, water contamination, et cetera.
I appreciate the fact that you're probably left leaning like me, so I'll be gentle. How do you think vegetables are grown and transported? If you eat coventional, vegetables, they're grown with petroleum based fertilizer manufacturing that includes animal byproducts as well as other industrial chemicals. If you eat organic vegetables, they're grown with animal manure, bone meal, blood meal, fish emulsion, etc. The elimination of animal pests to protect those vegetables has to occur on one level or another, whether it be wholsale application of broad spetrum insecticides conventionally or, in the case of reputable organic growers, other control methods.
The shipping of your carrots, peppers, tomatos, and lettuce across the US or from Mexico costs just as much or more petroleum.
Liberal views work for many things, but not supporting a vegan evangelism.
Sebastian Smith
The man presenting this evidence is a highly qualified scientist, everything he does is subject to scientific scrutiny. Nothing I presented was based on anything that appeared on TV. I'm referring to peer-reviewed research.
>The Journal of the American Medical Association referred to his Cases of the Reincarnation Type (1975) a "painstaking and unemotional" collection of cases that were "difficult to explain on any assumption other than reincarnation."
>In September 1977, the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease devoted most of one issue to Stevenson's research.[40] Writing in the journal, the psychiatrist Harold Lief described Stevenson as a methodical investigator, and added, "Either he is making a colossal mistake, or he will be known (I have said as much to him) as 'the Galileo of the 20th century'."
How qualified are you to comment, really? I'm guessing not very. But I'm sure your blind certainty is enough to provide you with the truth, as it always has been throughout human history.
>Noone cares Clearly wrong, and speaking on behalf of everyone else makes you look like a pompous ass.
Hudson Bailey
I usually like to point out to people like him that the general secular non-spiritual assumption in most of Asia is that reincarnation is what happens. It doesn't seem to matter to them but I still like to point it out.
Lincoln Scott
>there is considerable evidence to support the theory of reincarnation. Hahahaha no there fucking isn't.
Nathaniel Allen
>le natural order just admit that you like killing things because it makes you feel like a big man
Sebastian Thompson
hes right though. All livestock would not exist without human intervention. It exists to be consumed. When its gone, it'll be gone. With the exception of some feral populations.