Who was the superior philosopher: Hegel or Nietzsche?

The big joke of Hegel is that everything is already exactly as it seems. The only reason we have this inclination to believe the world around us is not the true one, or that there could ever be some kind of "higher" reality is that Plato poisoned our minds.

You can't escape the matrix, it's matrices all the way up and down, only through reasoning can they all converge into truth.

>we need to start over because Plato kind of memed our civilization into a 2,000+ year long wild goose chase.

God fuck my sides are fucking gone

Hegel already figured this out tho is the problem which is why continentals focus so much on phenomenology, because there is nothing else but phenomena, noumena can't be real.

Marry me!

Cioran
because he had a sense of humor

They're both just watered down Eastern philosophy.

Good post.

Nietzsche is the single most influential philosopher in the present day. Hegel is mildly interesting, but his project has been ripped apart by pretty much every subsequent thinker.

The saddest part is that you think you actually read both

Hegel in the streets. Nietzsche in the sheets my friend.

Err, the goose chase Plato sent philosophy on was the idea that one can attain the Truth via Reason. You just proved that user's point.

don't mix heidegger with neetchee

Hegel a shit and outdated. Nietzche has a big cock.

kek

wouldnt that be positivism

Cioran

Apparently Veeky Forums is full of morons. Hegel is the clear winner. His introduction to Phenomenology of Spirit wiped away a couple millennia of philosophy in six pages.

wew lad

Is this b8? God, i hope this is fucking b8, you faggot.

Aristotle, but Hegel is clearly better than Nietzsche. Nietzsche isn't a philosopher. More of an armchair historian.

He pre-empted Veeky Forums shitposts.

can't even form an argument

When asking a question such as this it is helpful to take into account the various views in which Hegel and Nietzsche differed.

For example, Hegel was brought up by the Jesuits when he was younger--this is something that greatly shaped his thought and influenced his philosophy. It is also one of the reasons for why Hegel had a difficult relationship with religion; he never fully accepted Catholicism, but neither did he fully deny it.

Where as Nietzsche, when he was a teenager, he adopted Schopenhauer's epistemological idealism point of view. Only after studying mathematics he than turned away from that belief. I also remember reading that later in life, Nietzsche became somewhat strange. When work was being conducted on his sisters house, Nietzsche decided to change the height of the ceiling after it had already been made--by 3 centimeters! He was very precise about things--I remember also reading that during world war 1, he would write much of his work in code, so that if he were kidnapped, nobody would understand it. Though to get back to the main point, Nietzsche became more religious late in his life before dying--and even after claiming that he had solved all philosophical problems began to write again. I know that some clear descriptions of his late-life madness was how he would just begin writing about how hilarious he thought it was that David Hume had grown so fat that he had been stuck in a bog and had to be helped out! This was much to the dismay of his wife.

All in all, when comparing the two these things must be taken into account--they were like night and day--Hegel of course being day, as he enjoyed waking up very early in the mornings, and he spent much of his time in in the solitude of graveyards writing about time. Nietzsche would spend late nights in the cafes of France chatting up various female philosophy students. It is important to note that Nietzsche was arrested quite a few times. He was even pardoned by the president of France after one arrest with the president famously saying: "One does not simply lock up Karl Marx"

Wow! I just want to say that this is some of the best writing I have ever seen, and this is coming from a lifelong avid reader! If I had friends they would call me a critical person, but I know greatness when I see it, and believe me, I see it!

How do you conjure such a keen sense of totality and exhaustiveness so exquisitely? The masterful use of varied memes built the tension to a fever pitch, and the tips and turns had me on the edge of my seat craving to """learn""" more.

Seriously, I hope you become a professional memer.

Positivism is object-oriented and also was proven to be logically false by a proof based upon its own principles, whereas Hegel was not object-oriented in his metaphysics.

And Hegel got wiped away less than a century later by the dirty Dane in Fear and Trembling

>taking the great dane seriously

jinkies

David Hume being stuck in a bog is pretty funny though desu

Hegel confirmed fuctional masterrace.

> the big joke of hegel is that everything is already exactly as it seems.

Could you elaborate on that? Or maybe point me in the direction of further reading? Thanks.

Nietzsche ruined America, but Hegel didnt

conservativeamerica-online.com/the-10-people-who-destroyed-america-friedrich-nietzsche-9-of-10/

>Nietszche
>WW1

>The useful bits of Nietzsche
stopped reading there

Hegel a shit. Anyone who's read Schopenhauer knows this.

Emprically wrong.

> a philosopher of anti-philosophy
it's more meaningful to say that he was a non-universalist philosopher
>said we need to start over because Plato kind of memed our civilization into a 2,000+ year long wild goose chase
that's not even true, the values of the herd should rule in the herd; nietzsche's objection was that universal values were held as the highest values and that higher values that were not universal were discredited

saying "meme" and "goose chase" is incorrect because the last 2,000 years created the herd caste and resources necessary for the maintenance of the higher type of man
the only reason this analysis even works is because you keep referring to plato rather than socrates, nietzsche's idea of the ubermensch is pretty much a restatement of socrates' idea of the philosopher-king ruling over the herd

inb4 postmodernist interpretations of nietzsche where everything is interpreted into irrelevance

Nietzsche was more of a cultural critic of the environment he found himself in

not that guy
is there a hegelian response to schopenhauers criticism anywhere?
like, as a convenient article online?

Are you /fringe/?

>Hegel writing anything in six pages
top zoz lad

To Hegel, there is not some kind of mysterious noumenal world.

"What is real is rational and what is rational is real." as he said. He first shows how all things are defined in relation to others, they are defined by what they are not, negative determination. So each thing's essence can be found in other, a something (anything) is made up completely of things outside of it, and the things around it all are made up partially by the something. They are all defined in relation to each other.

Imagine a hall of mirrors. each mirror reflects the other mirrors, in each mirror one would both be seeing the mirror and the myriad other mirrors reflecting each other. The thing-in-itself would be like a lone mirror reflecting itself somehow, it just doesn't work. The Thing-In-Itself can't exist because you would have to somehow define an object as different from itself, without relating to anything else.

Looking at things from the perspective that they are defined in relation to other things, it is simply irrational to suppose there is something beyond what we can reason, measure, perceive, interact with, etc. Even if the above argument doesn't really make sense to you, tell me how these noumena could ever possibly matter or interact with us, they can't, they're empty concepts.

I'd recommend reading The Science of Logic but that isn't a book you can just jump into, you'd need to have some background and preparation, I'd recommend finding a reading group or something.

>the president of France after one arrest with the president famously saying: "One does not simply lock up Karl Marx"
What's the real anecdote of this one? All the others I got.

Jean-Paul Sartre was the one who chatted up female philosophy students in the cafes of France and was arrested during student protests. The president did pardon him actually saying: "One does not simply lock up Voltaire."

>Were these distress-addicts to feel within themselves the power to do themselves good from within, to do something for themselves, they would know how to create their very own distress. Their inventions could then become more refined and
their satisfactions sound like good music, while they now fill the world with their clamour about distress, and consequently, all too often with the feeling of distress! They do not know what to do with themselves - and so they paint the unhappiness of others on the wall; they always need others! And continually other others! - Pardon me, my friends, I have ventured to paint my happiness on the wall

really makes you think

>transitions into healthcare bashing halfway through

Amazing

ALL ME

So why did it took the West a thousand and a half more years than Buddhism to figure out Indra's net?

Was it the Greeks? It was the Greeks, wasn't it?

"the values of the herd should rule in the herd"

It's like you made the most un-Nietzsche-esque statement possible. Jesus, people on this board actually think they understand Nietzsche

>My philosophy aims at an ordering of rank: not at an individualistic morality. The ideas of the herd should rule in the herd – but not reach out beyond it.
lmao why do i even bother with you retards

could we let this thread go to oblivion

no you're going to learn what my interpretation of nietzsche is

Nietzsche didn't really respect Hegel, although he certainly didn't disrespect him as much as Schopenhauer. When he does pass comment on Hegel, it's usually in the form of a back-handed compliment which, although Hegelians will invariably dispute to death, usually has some merit. For example:

>“Prussia, by subordinating all educational aspirations to state purposes, has succeeded in appropriating the one legacy of Hegelian philosophy that can be exploited in practice: its apotheosis of the state.”

I really don't think that's Nietzsche in the photo.

He also signed a pettition against making it illegal for adults to fuck 13 year olds. Really makes you think.

My experience with eastern philosophy is that it likes to make lots and lots of profound statements but not build rigorous argumentation for why they're true, unlike Hegel who step-by-step takes you through his entire thought process, justifying each step.

>Penultimate
Who was the ultimate?

homie the genuinely positive exposition is at the same time a negative attitude towards it. the refutation of a universal principle consists merely in its completion. literally paragraph 24 of the phenomenology.

confirmed illiterate

You can't talk about philosophers like you would talk about anime villains.
I mean you can, but it's shit.

Hegel is the Brahms of music. Hegel hands down.

i want a shonen anime with famous philosophers as the villains now

Ugh, I mean, season-three-Kant could definitely beat pre-kajahasamura Popper using only half of his chackra power

You mean the Brahms of philosophy?

Yeah of course, my bad

i was thinking more bleach than dbz

So he's basically a shitty ripoff of Spinoza. Wow, amazing.

Well, Hegel himself mentions all over the place that his job was to develop previous philosophies.

What exactly does he develop? Everything you've posted so far is essentially Spinozist.

Nietzsche wasn't a philosopher.

>When work was being conducted on his sisters house, Nietzsche decided to change the height of the ceiling after it had already been made--by 3 centimeters! He was very precise about things--I remember also reading that during world war 1, he would write much of his work in code, so that if he were kidnapped, nobody would understand it. Though to get back to the main point, Nietzsche became more religious late in his life before dying--and even after claiming that he had solved all philosophical problems began to write again.

Those were Wittgenstein, though.

I'm not that guy, and frankly, I'm not the most qualified person to answer that question either, but Hegel's main development over Spinoza, AFAIK, is on the side of the subjectivity present in the 'thing in itself'.

care to elaborate?

>thinking that philosophy must develop novel ideas
top kek

Friedrich Matthew Nietzschold

I'm sorry to say this, but I think he thought "penultimate" meant "even more ultimate than ultimate".

i'm pretty sure he meant marx

both prefer eggs

nietzsche likes to scrambles

hegel just does a simple sunny-side up

if camus was still alive he'd be eating fruit loops fwiw

isn't that jack nance?

Who's the Beethoven?

Schoppy?

Kant. Plato or socrates is Bach.

Feel you.
Fucking lit

>not realizing that that quote is snide remark about how the herd is complacent and simply following orders imposed on them
>not immediately recognizing sarcasm in Nietzsche's writings
Fuck off idiot

Hegel is Wow It's Fucking Nothing: The Philosopher

You're mistaken. It is Nietzsche. Wittgenstein is a philosopher, but he is a different philosopher

>if camus was still alive he'd be eating fruit loops fwiw
Interesting interesting

According to Hayek, Nietzsche used to insist on bread and cheese every meal and would often exclaim "how diggety" when it was brought to him by Hayek's wife.

That was Wittgenstein visiting his friend in US. He heard that phrase before from his friend and started to use it himself

/thread

Nietzsche is Wow It's Fucking Nothingness: The Philosopher

I don't think Wittgenstein ever met Nietzsche, let alone was his friend. And Nietzsche was from Germany.

Speaking of Hegel, I want Zniffman to psychoanalyze people on this board falling for the most obvious of bait.