Why have all of Ishinomori's designs aged so terribly?

Why have all of Ishinomori's designs aged so terribly?

This is a god-tier suit, but I get it, you're just baiting for another showa/heisei troll thread.

I mean, the suit designed in the manga was very simplistic (as per the ishimori usu) and something like that I felt like didn't translate well into live action

Have you seen Inazuman, doesn't capture the manga's design at all.

goofy giant helmets
Also, they reflect the era in which they were created with their detailing and how they're constructed.
Ultraman's suit used different materials and made to look alien, which I suppose helped him stay timeless.

>Why have all of Ishinomori's designs aged so terribly?

Big helmets, low on details (since they were basically designed like his manga characters) and the modern recreations made by Toei often use very low quality materials for the suits themselves, with no attempt to update the suit construction. Sometimes they actually REMOVE details, especially once they get to late 70s and 80s, rather than early 70s. (See the attached picture)

For example, that Kikaider suit you posted there likely could look significantly better if they had made a smaller helmet and used for the body a material similar to what's used for the Ultraman suits rather than plain cloth.

Stop the bullying.

Didn't they do that deliberately? I mean, it certainly looks that way.

The DESIGN has aged well, the OLD SUIT has not.

Heck, comparing them now, even that Let's Go Kamen Riders Kikaider suit somehow managed to remove details from the already simple original suit.

>For example, that Kikaider suit you posted there likely could look significantly better if they had made a smaller helmet and used for the body a material similar to what's used for the Ultraman suits rather than plain cloth.

Actually, I think OP's picture might be a case where they used a different material from the original. Because I think the original Kikaider suit used what looked like some kind of pleather material.

Nigga, that looks nothing like Ishinomori's design.

The ones on paper are fine. When you try to emulate that with 70s TV budgets the results are mixed at best. Kikaider looks like a guy wearing pajamas and a Halloween mask rather than a robot, 01 looks slightly better due to sturdier materials. The original Double Riders are fine until they switch from motorcycle leathers to spandex and cloth. Sanagiman is fucking hideous just like the manga version, Inazuman is too superhero looking and not organic enough. Arashi is pretty close to the comic version. Both the Gorangers and JAKQ have some fantastic design work that shine despite the shoddy materials they were made with. Zubat still looks fucking great after all these years, I'd expect no less from the Number 1 in Japan.

But that looks fine.

Try again with a different suit.

You wanna tell me Rider 1 looks better today?

Trying to turn the bait the other way around doesn't help either, friend.

>Inazuman is too superhero looking and not organic enough.

To be honest, I'm kinda fine with this. Not that I wouldn't have preferred it if they went with something closer to the manga design, but I can see why they didn't.

There's basically no way they could have afforded the materials for a full, organic-looking body suit in the 70s.

>Rider 1 has 2 stripes
>Rider 2 has 1 stripe

its the gay looking suit that aged badly

meanwhile this is still totally badass

>Because I think the original Kikaider suit used what looked like some kind of pleather material.

Nah, Kikaider in the original series was cloth. For the 01 series both Kikaiders used the pleather material.

Pretty sure they used both.

If you think this piece of shit looks good you need to fucking neck yourself. It's a fucking embarrassment.

Man, say whatever else you want about Za Fursto, but those suits were sex.

>trying to pass off the stunt suit as the main
top kek. what's next? gavan never used a metallic suit?

Why did Ishinomori never sue Toei over this?

Listen, I'm not in it for great looking suits. I just want to see robots thrown off a cliff so hard they explode and maybe the occasion fire dangerously close to the lead actors.

Acting like the originals and Rider 1 mk. Cucked-Ghost edition are supposed to be the same suit and not another suit entirely is your problem.

Whatever, the original design still looks pretty cool.

He doesn't really care. Janperson also stole a lot of ideas and concepts from Robot Keiji. He's not like Leiji Matsumoto who enjoys suing people over every little thing, even though he's already filthy rich.

The head's too big, which together with the loose cloth costume makes the actor look scrawny. The flat pastel colors further highlight that it's cloth rather than even trying to look like metal.

If you compare the Reboot costume, the much smaller helmet and tighter costume made with more hard plastic and metallic paint gives it a much stronger-looking appearance, and more importantly makes it look like a robot rather than a guy in a long shirt.

Reboot costume is just bad.
Maybe if I saw the film, it'd have grown on me, but I didn't.

Zubat is a generic superhero suit for parts of a show that were honestly really superfluous considering the main character was godlike without a powersuit.

I don't really see how Ishinomori would have had the time, since he was consistently working on stuff even up until his death.

Metalder was a good show but could they have been any more blatant about it? They copied Kikaider right down to the color scheme and the badass rival character. Ishinomori Pro was co-producing magical girl shows with Toei during the height of Metal Heroes wasn't it? Makes sense not wanting to piss off your business partners when they've already got a sweet gig going with you, even if they're plainly just trying stiff you out of another paycheck.

The only thing that outright bugs me about the Reboot costume is the claws on the left hand. I know his red side is his "evil" side and all, but that's a bit much.

>I know his red side is his "evil" side and all

That sounds godawful.

That's literally what Kikaider's design represents. His blue side symbolizes "good" and his red side symbolizes "evil" because of his incomplete conscience circuit. He has the capacity for both, granting him humanity.

This term does not apply to things without Graphics. I can smell you from a mile away

The claw is just lame. It takes the good and bad aspect and turns it into angel and demon.
The idea was supposed to be "imperfect" not "helf-demon", it really misses the mark.

I think we're also forgetting the elephant in the room here. Ishinomori is not credited for any Sentai past JAKQ. Battle Fever was definitely different enough, they could be put at the same category as Ninja Captor or something, not even the uniforms look anything like the previous ones. But Denziman and Sun Vulcan? Those are made under the Marvel license even though there's nothing Marvel about them. And they reused a lot of stuff from Goranger and JAKQ, including character archetypes like the Yellow Jaguar obsession with curry and the headquarters being inside a restaurant. Uniforms were also clearly inspired by Goranger and JAKQ instead of Battle Fever. Considering Ishinomori barely had anything to do with series like Black RX, post-Battle Fever Sentai should probably fall under the same criteria, but that didn't happened. But again, Ishinomori was probably fine with it. I don't think he minded at all.

On a unrelated note, Toei supposedly did the same to Go Nagai with Gaiking, that made their relationship go sour for many years. But they came back to an agreement with Getter Robo Go.

True. He was supposed to be imperfect, half-finished. Why the hell Komyoji would make a half-evil robot on purpose? Because that's what the design implies.

Hah, it's kinda humorous to think it was because he was under watch from Prof Gill, and somehow building half of him evil looking would've somehow fooled him... Though I guess it's not like old school baddies were particularly sharp.

>they could be put at the same category as Ninja Captor or something

If by that, you mean no category at all.

Ninja Captor showed up as "Sentai" in some old magazines, even if it was airing alongside Goranger second cour, if I'm not mistaken. Both Goranger and JAKQ were included as part of the Super Sentai series up to Sun Vulcan, it was only after that they were removed for whatever reason. To avoid problems with Ishimori Pro maybe?

Just adding to it, Ishinomori never felt Goranger was one of his finest works. He created it to be as simple as possible, because this formula proved successful with the revamped Kamen Rider after the first 13 episodes. Inazuman/Inazuman Flash was a lot more experimental and suffered from low rantings (it was good the Raijin-Go sales that made the series last for the entire year. Same happened with Toei Spider-man. Ratings were mediocre, but Leopardon sold very well). They played it safe. Not even the manga is all that complex, it's probably the weakest of all his hero manga. He made 2 different Goranger manga, one for Shonen Sunday and another for some TV magazine, he got bored with both and turned the series into a gag parody permanently, which is pretty wild and fun, by the way.

I never saw he saying a thing about JAKQ, though. They ratings were not even that awful like people say, but it was vastly inferior to Goranger and it's pretty clear a lot more effort was put into that series. And a much bigger budget, Goranger final episode battle was made entirely of stock footage, it was ridiculous. But still, I don't think Ishinomori cared much for Goranger as a whole and he probably didn't even watched the following seasons.

>Why have all of Ishinomori's designs aged so terribly?
Yes, but it does not apply to Black and RX.

>totally badass
Fuck yeah.

>BR shitmonkey literally too illiterate to read the OP properly

Original Sky Rider > Black

Both as a series and costume. Black is terribly mediocre past the first few episodes and inconsistent as fuck. The manga is great, though.

>Ninja Captor showed up as "Sentai" in some old magazines

IIRC, it was just one guidebook and is likely to have been a mistake. I personally think that's the case or otherwise Kanin Captor 7 would have shown up in more early team-up photos.

Kill yourself BR/ Flip scum

>I never saw he saying a thing about JAKQ, though. They ratings were not even that awful like people say, but it was vastly inferior to Goranger and it's pretty clear a lot more effort was put into that series. And a much bigger budget, Goranger final episode battle was made entirely of stock footage, it was ridiculous. But still, I don't think Ishinomori cared much for Goranger as a whole and he probably didn't even watched the following seasons.

Just noticed I didn't phrased this very well. I mean JAKQ was the better show, in every little aspect. Goranger was poorly made and probably an unexpected success. A lot more effort was put into JAKQ.

Most of the original Riders look great, though. Especially the OG and Super-1.

I'll be honest, I would really love to see the first/next suits appear in Amazons

Honestly, I think the biggest reason why JAKQ failed is that the initial episodes were written like a serious cop/spy drama, but undermined by the tacky cars and costumes.

Scarf Riders? No.

Not exactly, m8. I just wanted to see ragefags like you mad.

No. Try harder.

>Scarf Riders? No.

Shit taste. It's like you don't want to look cool while riding your motorcycle.

JAKQ took a lot of nods from Cyborg 009. Group of outcasts turned into cyborgs with different abilities. Spade Ace even had an acceleration switch early in the show (in typical Toei fashion, it's never mentioned again. Just like Sky Rider "sailing jump", X Rider underwater abilities or Super-1 being made for space exploration, among others).

Go back to shoving broken glass up your ass while fapping to tranny fart porn you fucking BR mud monkey.
Nobody will ever take your your worthless opinion seriously.

They should have just used the SIC design 1:1 like they did for Hakaider in his movie.

But then they wouldn't have a new figure to sell so of course they fucking didn't.

So, basically, they cut it for cost reasons?

You're one of if not the biggest dumb booger I've ever seen on here.

What's up with all the Filipinos with retarded opinions lately? Even the Metal Heroes thread is painful to read.

>Why have all of Ishinomori's designs aged so terribly?
>Answer: "yes"
>i was just trying to make you ANGERY JAJAJAJAJAJA


I just read this thread and it was interesting!

And by the way, tonight I was wondering what people think of the Kikaider reboot movie, is it a good watch?

I have no idea. The effect was made just by accelerating the video, so I don't think so. But judging by how silly the show got by the second half, maybe they thought the concept was too complicated for kids or something. That was the reason given for why 009 didn't had one in the 60s show, he was just "super strong and fast".

I gave some opinion in the other thread about the rebooted designs. I think it's a solid movie. It's not the same as the manga or the anime, but it's definitely closer in tone to them than the old live action show.

Cool thanks, I'll give it a watch.

It sounds plausible, although it does escape me why they think it'd be too hard for them to understand. It's just a thing that makes him go fast.

Or maybe they didn't want kids imitating it and trying to outrun traffic.

Japanese TV producers operate under really bizarre logic sometimes. When Gegege no Kitaro was originally pitched as a series, they said it was too hard for kids to understand as well, and one of the reasons given was because the eyeball character could talk without a mouth. So because of that and other reasons, they went with Akuma-kun instead and only years later Kitaro got its own series.

Tokusatsu Jiro is one harsh dude.

Although, probably not as harsh as Masaru. Cuz, goddamn.

I just realized how much he looks like Raj from BBT in the 71 picture

Japanese producers, especially those back then, always struck me as the type that would go "Well, if I don't get it then no way is a kid going to get it."

Because asking why an eyeball is talking without a mouth is exactly the kind of dumb question a clueless adult would ask and reject if they don't like the answer. Children would be fine with "it's because he's a ghost!"

Why does he have claws and a spike on his arm?

crawling in my skin

Pretty much. They're boring adults without no sense of fun or imagination. But sometimes they can hit the spot, I guess. They were the reason why we got Kamen Rider and Devilman the way we know them.

The Skull Man design was rejected for being too scary for children, which was already kinda weird since Ougon Bat, Akuma-kun and Kitaro were scary shows and a hit with children. And then Devilman was created because they asked Nagai to make something like Mao Dante but the hero needed to look more like a American superhero. Before that there was also Akakage, which was pretty much Yokoyama's Iga no Kagemaru reimagined into a costumed super-hero instead of a ordinary ninja.

I kinda like this one a lot.

Post more old magazine scans please

There you go.





> No Sun Vulcan vs Denziman movie ever made.

I'm mad.

Thanks bud, I always enjoy these.

If there was a website with these spanning from when Kamen Rider first started to now I'd probably just spend all my remaining time going through it.

>kikaiders suit looks like plastic or vinyl
>01 look like it might be fuckin LEATHER
so did they just TRY to kill suit actors in the 70s?

To be fair to producers, the original Skull Man and Mao Dante really were super inappropriate for kids as is.

It's the same leather-like material like the original Rider 1. Gotta remember that part of the duality of meaning for the name Kikaider is machine+rider (kikai-rider).
(Along with machine-i'm {kikai+da})
So the biker-vibe is intentional.

Dude, an early episode of Devilman had him whip a demoness' nips repeatedly. All they did was make toys more superhero like.

its its own story but it follows more the tone of the manga or the anime and can be melancholy
if you like those you'll be fine
im butt hurt that Hakaider was just a body for Gil and not his own character, though. Hakaider is a fav of mine so it was super disappointing.

Isn't that spoiler mostly true to the manga? It isn't like Saburo did anything meaningful there.

Hitting titties is fair game. Even Kikaider did it.

>Miss America
that is still the goofiest design
who went "yeah a wig on a sentai mask works, why wouldn't it?" and the who approved it

no i know that
i mean more it seems like that material would be hell to work in as a suit actor.
like you need to carbo load to avoid losing to much weight to sweat

nah in the Manga he was still Kikaiders Rival trying to surpass him and even still had the Brain Hostage subplot attached
but much like in the later half of the manga Gil does hijack Hakaider as a spare body like in everything else much to Jiros horror.
But the movie doesn't even get that much with Hakaider just being a strong robot body for Gil

I should watch that Hakaider movie some time, looks like some good ol egdy 90 toku goodness

Yeah, and while this might be an unpopular opinion, I think Gill Hakaider is the best Hakaider in pretty much all incarnations. He was a cold manipulative bastard in the manga and anime. And just plain stupidly evil in the show. I just love that guy.

By the way, he was not even really Gill in the Kikaider 01 toku, he was something else. A new Hakaider or whatever. Just like Saburo didn't acted like Komyoji. There was an entire episode when he need to summon Gill spirit in order to think like him or something.

Did he do it to a bare demoness' nips with a whip? While she was tied up? It WAS an interrogation, so I guess they could excuse their way out of any issues though.

Nah. He just drop kicks a giant pink armadillo robot right in the tits in the live-action.

If there's any weird bondage going on, he's usually on the receiving end of it.

Well, they would not be the same as the manga anyway. The Skull Man Rider design was not really supposed to be the same as the manga Skull Man, he would be a super hero from the start but with a more macabre suit. The idea is that those shows would only be very loosely based in the manga, but redone into something that could be suitable for children.

There was lots of creepy stuff in the early Rider episodes as well. The human deaths were a lot more gruesome with bodies melting into skeletons and shit like that.

He was Gil. Unlike Komiyoji-Hakaider, he had Gills voice and personality. You gotta remember that Saburo, the default personality and Jiro's brother, was gutted out before the switch to Gill-Hakaider. Essentially, he died saving Jiro and then Gill frankenstien'd himself into the cadaver.
Saburo was like the OS and RAM and Komiyoji was the HHD. Gill was Gill.

No, I mean in the show. He's introduced as Gill in Hakaider's body, but then proceeds to act less and less like Gill. Then he becomes a sore loser after Shadow Knight is introduced, an incompetent evil bastard and a punching bag for 01. But it's still the only villain to be there from the beginning to the end and sometimes they pretty much mention he's not Gill at all, just "Hakaider". In the Gill spirit episode, they actually show the old Gill actor talking to Hakaider and telling him what to do...

I always assumed that was because he died before he was re-animated as Gill-Hakaider, which would explain his seemingly brain-damaged induced psychosis. In japanese spiritualism, it's totally fine for his spirit and his re-animated brain to meet.
Anyway, Saburo was the coolest and strongest version of Hakaider, especially since it involved the conflict of Saburo's KILL-programming fighting Komiyoji's mind/compassion. Gill-Hakaider, while a very interesting Starscream-like persona, doesn't quite compare. And that's saying something, Starscream has been my favorite transformer since I was a kid.

Pick your favourite.