So has anyone actually seen god or heaven or hell and can prove that they exist? If god could be proven to exist...

so has anyone actually seen god or heaven or hell and can prove that they exist? If god could be proven to exist, wouldn't there be no more religions, because there would be no faith, it could just be factually verifiable?

Oh wow! Eureka! You've discovered what so many people have already. why did you start this thread?

Fuck off name fag

>implying Catholics are the same as Baptists or Presbyterians
They all believe in God, just different somehow.

In many sects of Christianity, there is a tenant known as the mystery of faith. Basically it means that we believe despite the fact that there is no definitive proof that God exists.

Technically, not a "name."

>so has anyone actually seen god or heaven or hell and can prove that they exist
Many have but that's not something you can prove empirically. There's plenty of testimony (NDEs etc.), but the experience itself is a subjective kind of experience. For somebody who has never had such experiences it is easy to dismiss them as fantasies. No matter what non-supernatural explanations the non-believer will come up with, it doesn't mean that they weren't real, authentic experiences. Neither side can prove the contrary to the other side.

>If god could be proven to exist, wouldn't there be no more religions, because there would be no faith, it could just be factually verifiable?
If you prove the Christian God to exist it means that it will be the only real religion left. Other religions will be seen as man-made.

>because there would be no faith, it could just be factually verifiable?
Interesting question. If God was proven to exist, but it wasn't interfering with the Universe directly, then I suspect faith would remain; faith in his actions as responses to our prayers that we can never be sure of.

Oh don't get your panties in a bunch.

People see things in their mind, god exists as any ghost story. As children we trust our parents not to lie to us and they, deluded themselves, perpetuate the myths of ancient times. Governments especially love the obedience this ignorance breeds in people, so promote the idea that staying faithful and moral to these codes of conduct are so very important. So go to church, pay your taxes, send us some of your children for the army and shut up.

Better?

Pokemon exists. There are many aspects to Pokemon that divide it's fans. Games, TV show, Cards, and the fandom itself.
Follow Pokemon on earth, serve Pokemon in heaven, or live apart from Pokemon in hell.

Pokemon's love is unconditional because, everyone is it's target audience.
But the thing is people aren't born knowing everything about pokemon. They have to discover pokemon for themselves. They have to learn to love Pokemon, or else live in a dark place and miss out what everyone else is experiencing.

Those who hate Pokemon's love and it's people worship Digimon instead. They might draw people away from Pokemon, and pokemon doesn't like that. But that's Pokemon's problem - and the most devoted will make it their problem too by extension.

See where I'm going with this?

Let's presuppose God exists.

If God does exist, it is in his interest to not let us know he exists with absolute certainty.

In doing so, we would act moral because we fear God, not because because acting moral is in itself a high good. Also imagine what a totalitarian dystopia a world would be where everybody would try to actively please God. It would be like ISIS^100.

Why does an omnipotent god care so much about love, moral and such concepts that even some humans don't really care about? Why is it important to him that I jerked off today? It boggles my mind, senpai. The dude who made the universe is gonna tell me LMAO U WANKED NOW U BURN DUDE
when I die?

Please help.

Orly? What difference does it make? He's the one that gave us the capacity to experience fear.

If the omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God exists, then pain and suffering would not. If the omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God was for you, who could possibly be against you?
These are simple, logically sound propositions, but the problem with organized religion is that whenever a man describes God in terms that are not logical, even by describing God as existing, he is essentially delusional and his congregation accepts his delusion on the basis of his authority.
Thomas Hobbs proposed that because man has inherent violent tendencies, it makes sense to give all power to an absolute monarch who maintains order but promises not to abuse his power. What I think can be inferred from the results of Stanley Milgram's obedience experiment is that this already happens subconsciously because all social norms and rules are accepted on the basis of the man who is able to speak most convincingly with power and authority, that is the man who has all the force in the world to back him up.
Consider this, that the moment in time when everyone on earth accepted the belief that the omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God existed would be the exact moment in time when pain suffering ceased to exist as concepts.
Does it not then, seem reasonable to accept the existence of the omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God on the basis of an inherently irrational leap of faith? Especially considering that every belief system requires a leap of faith at some point since what one can actually claim to know is actually a laughably pitiable lot.
The belief in the omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God is the most important thing. Everything else is social convention.

According to what technique?

I've had mystical experience after suffering tremendeous psychological stress. I've communicated non-verbally with God or whatever. It was really comforting, he basically said everything's gonna be alright.
After that I experienced non- self or whatever in a way that when I looked into mirror I didn't identify with my 2 eyes as usual, and was myself as much as I waas a mirror, a tree, etc.
Then I jerked off for like 30 minutes imagining sex with an (imaginary) girl I love and I cared for her pleasure as much as mine. It was basically 30 min long super orgasm. Basically give it away and you'll get back 100x more.

So yes, god exists, but heaven and hell don't exist in a literal way christianity teaches. All we have is here and now.
You should do good so your life will be more heaven-like, and vice versa.
Proving God's existence scientifically wouldn't be fun, cause free will would be hindered.

Ugh

I guess from an engineering stand point. I'd want a bike that pedals itself with as little force from me.

And I guess, if I was an all-powerful being that could do anything, the only thing worth making is something I couldn't control.

All-powerful god creates immovable boulder. If he can move it, it's not immovable. If he can't; he's not all-powerful.
The solution to the paradox is that nothing says God has to be all-powerful all the time.

You are right, that's the whole point of faith.

>Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem

Guys we are on lit, not /pol/, reddit, tumblr or /b/. Fucking read some Plato, Plotinus, Subtle Doctor or Leibniz instead of spouting the first thoughts re:religion that basically any below average intelligence high school student with mediocre guidance has. On a side note I used to think that butterfly was just a particularly bad and distasteful troll, but it's been around for so long that I do have to applaud it for not yet realising how drastically retarded it is.

don't bully butterfly. butterfly's said some smart things from what I've seen in this thread too.

Lmao if you consider what it said in this thread 'smart' you need to get back to your books m80.

you sound like the idiot, idiot.

>re:religion
And I'm retarded.

>Holding basically the same opinion of the thread as I.
And *I'm" supposed to be retarded.
Probably the same dipshit lecturing me on sensitivity in the other thread

i've had a mystical experience. it happened to me a year and a half ago.

YHWH (elohim) exists. everything else that promises fulfillment is a lie, the fallen world is a machine that runs on despair, everything is sex, everybody is selling the same old new best thing, there is nothing new under the sun, the only real thing is Adonai, whom i stand before in eternity. we are all condemned because of our falling short, unless we accept the free gift Yahshua gave us.

no way for me to prove it to you, and i'm sure some atheist will have some objection, to which i will make no reply.

If I was an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being with a literal infinite amount of time to kill I think I'd end up getting a lot more entertainment value out of creating some other entities with their own free wills and watching what they do with it.

I mean, being a singular all powerful entity would be pretty lonely. Anything you could create is essential a part of yourself sense you have absolute control over it. You'd have to essentially wall off parts of your own will to create other beings that were your equals in any meaningful sense.

So, basically, either we exist in a digital simulation or each of us is actually a divine partition of the original absolute will.

Pokemon are dope as fuck?

If anything supernatural, transcendent, paranormal, or even just synchronistic could be empirically proven, it would be the most important thing that has ever happened. Qualified researchers would be all over it. Sadly, it hasn't.

The prove of God is what we see all around us now. This earth did not for on its own. In any case science would try and declare that this ezsistance was created from the big bang. But where did the particles come from that made the big bang. See for God to be all powerful he would have to be w.o restrictions. So when he said 'let there be, and there was.' That's all the proof needed. Many of us cannot explain into reason why the earth is perfectly in place. Not to far or close to the sun. But the fact that we have always had this battle of 'living forever' and 'living for today'. Only means that we are finite along with infinte. For loving in this world finite. After this world infinite. Only difference is a place which is full of God grace and another place which is far away from his grace. If anyone is looking for answers, just look into your heart and if you have ever loved. Then love is from God proving his presents then , here and future.

>Also imagine what a totalitarian dystopia a world would be where everybody would try to actively please God. It would be like ISIS^100.
But wouldn't that be objectively good since God is?
Anything would mean that we need sin/evil/bad

The whole point of faith is to believe without proof.

If God or man provided evidence that God was ACTUALLY REAL Then all modern religions would cease to exist.

>all modern religions would cease to exist.
I guess we weren't talking about the Christian God?

Hmm. Really makes you think.

This. And the world will come to a "close" upon "impact" with a red heavenly body. "Planet X"

But you are omniscient, you already know what they would do.

>tfw i see existence as the divine manifestation of God's perpetual Being, radiating out like light from an eternal sun
>tfw the universe is an act of desire and not of necessity
>tfw we can glimpse the glory of creation with our senses and mind
>tfw we have the ability to inquire through science, philosophy, theology, and the arts
>tfw pain exists but so much beauty does as well

>implying you need some highly praised intellectual works to gain your faith in God

And that's where are you wrong friend. I'm not even Protestant but there is a lot of truth in Protestant doctrine "Sola fide" (faith alone).

The moment when we realise that our grannies, which accepted God in their hearts, made bigger philosophical step than thousands of high profile intellectuals is when we are going to have Paradise on Earth again.

I do. But I was mainly talking about the level one fedoras - you can't have an intellectual discussion about God without being an intellectual, ie someone who at least read the basics.

Clapton is god. Case closed.

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