Is poetry the epitome of a completely dead art form...

Have some balls OP and admit that barely a century in, cinema is moribond too. Art is secondary in this world, no surprise here.

>Art is secondary in this world
As it should be.

Should, no. But as it is, and as it always will be, yea.

i dont think art was secondary to ancient greeks

>he wants a world governed by something as protean as art

wew

I really enjoy Rothko. I've had the fortune to visit Tate Modern recently, including the Rothko room. What cognitive state do you think did I experience when in this room?

Wtf are you talking about. You do what you want with your life, more power to you if you want to dedicate it to art. Don't give me this ironic political bs.

To the greek dude before you : ok, sure, who cares.

Link icycalms' art essay please f a m

>You do what you want with your life, more power to you if you want to dedicate it to art.
That is how it is now, though.

Painting seems to be a little behind the technology curve at the moment. I've seen some very impressive digital paintings. There's no reason to fuck around with all that oil and thinner and canvas and brushes anymore.

But... how do you get a digital painting up on a wall?

If by "a wall" you mean in the public eye, then many digital paintings end up as thousands of people's desktop background
However, if by "a wall" you mean prestigious art collections, then I'm don't know

Sculpture isn't dead.

Painting is kind of dead but not, because many painters still sell their paintings for loads of money and get their shit shown in art galleries and museum exhibitions.

Theatre is kind of dead, but now that VR is becoming a thing it might very well adapt and become a part of that medium.

Poetry is quite dead. Although there are still poets who publish books and have readerships. I went to a local book launch in my shitty tiny state of Tasmania, Australia for a book by a local poet and the bookstore was absolutely packed, you couldn't move. Everyone was all sweaty because of the body heat and the place stank like b.o.

>But... how do you get a digital painting up on a wall?
on a screen, just like any other painting

>digital painting up on a wall
You have it recreated with traditional paint on a canvas by a traditional painter. All sorts of meta and shit.

I thought you killed yourself in a super-awesome-macho-thanatos-driven street race with a bunch of plebs in Sweden, icycalm?

You're so cool. I want to be you.

do you want to perhaps sit down for a little while you autistic faggot? i'm cutting corners obviously to reply to a specific person's argument and building my reply on the terms used, not lay out in fine academic detail all shifts in artistic practice over the past two centuries

>The last time the art world made a conscious effort to cater to the masses was the 19th century

what the fuck are you talking about? we're talking about art forms that include cinema, photography, electronic music, not the 'art world'. we're not changing the conversation to talk specifically about your retarded interests. go back to /mu/ and don't post here again

Nobody wrote any good epics in the hundred years before Milton wrote Paradise Lost. Wallace is probably the only writer born in the 1960s who has a shot at being immortalized. Cormac McCarthy once said we were lucky to have two great playwrights in a century. Kendrick Lamar is the only decent rapper to have emerged in the last 10 years.

I think the problem when haughty 20-somethings try and declare an art form "dead" is that they're doing it from a point of reference where "dead" means that the form doesn't have a relatable genius/prodigy that has emerged in their lifetime. We're so wrapped up in the commercial lifecycles of pop culture's dominant art forms (namely, film and music) that we expect every other art form should produce as many exceptional (or at least, enjoyable) pieces of art as quickly.

>Kendrick Lamar is the only decent rapper to have emerged in the last 10 years.
>Kendrick Lamar
>decent rapper

>rappping
>a respectable artform.

wew lad

he's wrong about kendrick but if you don't see rap as linked to the legacy of the avant-garde then you should kill yourself

tl;dr {insert art form} isn't dead, it just has

-less active artists than film/music
-smaller audience sizes than film/music
-longer distribution cycles than film/music (a 20 hourlong book will travel more slowly by word of mouth than a 40 minutelong album)
-more exacting demands on its audience than film/music (you can't be a passive consumer of poetry or literature)

For all of these reasons, there's less market demand for {insert dying art form}, which means any artist working in that medium has to be even MORE exceptional than a comparable peer working in film/music. Which might explain why you only know one semi-recent famous author (Wallace) while you know tons of famous musicians and movie stars.

I don't think he's the only hip-hop genius to have emerged in that time. In fact, I think (in terms of raw artistry) Kanye West surpasses him by leaps and bounds. However, there are way more producers on Kanye's level than rappers on Kendrick's, which is why I picked him as an example of a "singular" artist.

Also... which rappers do you think are on his level? Lots of entertaining ones (Danny Brown, Drake, Kanye, Nicki Minaj, Future, Young Thug) but nobody comes close to having the same musicality or literariness as Kendrick.

Death Grips is by far the supreme hip hop group in the last 20 years, or ever, really.

Ya I think that was a foreseeable oversight in my post. I should have distinguished between rappers/producers/bands. I think Death Grips is super interesting but I wouldn't call MC Ride a great rapper, just like I wouldn't call Leonard Cohen a great guitarist. At any rate, I think this is getting too nitty gritty into semantics. Sorry!

Death Grips is just a tired exercise in edginess by art school kids, their moment is already over
DG are also barely hip hop, rather it is nu-metal driven by a lame cyberpunk asthetic
Hip Hop proper is born out of west-african traditions with a punk-like logic that reflects the experience of 2nd or 3rd generation inner-city blacks
The pinnacle of this is Wu-tang's 36 chambers, specifically CREAM

No I get it. In your post you were comparing between poets, authors, playwrights, and rappers, whereas mistakenly thought you were comparing poets, authors, playwrights and HIP HOP ARTISTS.

>hip-hop != rap
>hip-hop = production + rap
>kendrick is only good at one half of that equation

>Death Grips is just a tired exercise in edginess by art school kids, their moment is already over
>Hip Hop proper is born out of west-african traditions with a punk-like logic that reflects the experience of 2nd or 3rd generation inner-city blacks
>Romantic poets are just faggy sexual deviants who are enacting a tired take on nature, the spirit and mythology. True poetry is an enactment of reason and is descended from the classical Greek tradition. They're on their way out.
>Virginia Woolf, James Joyce and literary modernism is just tired formal experimentation trying to be edgy and incomprehensible just to piss people off. True literature is romantic and transcendental, in the way of Wordsworth, Shelley or realistic like Jane Austen.
>Infinite Jest and other postmodern novels are just rearranging familiar literary forms and piggybacking on modernism's ingenuity, but making a "woah too deep" layering of ever elusive meaning, to seem clever.

Death Grips is just the culmination of a variety of previous musical forms coming together in an interesting way. I think they're one of the only interesting musical acts around.

>Hip Hop proper is born out of west-african traditions with a punk-like logic
>punk-like logic

Death Grips have more punk ethos about them than just about anything else that's mildly popular at the moment.

>Hip Hop proper is born out of west-african traditions with a punk-like logic that reflects the experience of 2nd or 3rd generation inner-city blacks

This will increasingly and already does feel like an antiquated and last century description of current hip hop. Hip hop's in it's equivalent stage that rock music was in the late fifties. It was descended from black music, blues, but gradually morphed into rock and become something that sounded completely different.

>mistakenly thought you were comparing poets, authors, playwrights and HIP HOP ARTISTS.

I didn't think anything like that, thank you.

good post

So I've never heard of his Icycalm guy before, but I just searched his name and there are whole articles about him documenting his posts on literally tens of forums. Who is autistic enough to track all this, and why? What is the purpose? Don't tell me people happen to browse the same 10 forums that he posts on. Who tracks this shit?

idiot

What's your problem buddy.

Only on Veeky Forums (and maybe reddit) do people obsess over an artform's irrelevance just because it doesn't interact with technology in the most direct and artless way possible. There is art that interacts with the "digital" age, it just doesn't go about it so guilelessly as to reduce itself to digital painting alone.

This is why I hate listening to hip hop fans discussing their chosen genre as an art form. They consider the slightly more thought out pop music to be the pinnacle of the genre, a true artistic achievement etc. when all they're listening to is pseduo-intellectual babble with the occasionally well put together line with production that hasn't been cutting edge in 5 plus years. Yeezus was produced by people who had been playing similar music to that for a few years at the least underground, and they lyrics are shit. Oh, Kanye some times feels sad? ART! To Pimp a Butterfly is just one part muh being famous is hard and thoughts about race that haven't been original since Richard Wright.

hip hop isn't my chosen genre, sorry. you have no idea what point i was even making

>discussing anything as punk
That genre is hyper dead. It went from anti-establishment and non-conformist principles to a bunch of posturing dickbags that demand adherence to an extraordinarily strict set of rules. If you deviate, you aren't punk. Hence why punk has gone nowhere since Bad Brains.
So do you mean is stagnated, artless trash?

>you just don't get it, man
>it's art i swear

are you done?

Critics are the lowest form of writer and art critics are the lowest form of critic.

I meant the punk ethos. Punk was dead when the Sex Pistols came onto the scene. The ethos is still alive and well.

And I think that other user meant that hip hop originally had a similar sort of culture informing it as punk once did.

did you visit the Gerhard Richter room on the same floor? those are great.

>Infinite Jest
>just rearranging familiar literary forms and piggybacking on modernism's ingenuity, but making a "woah too deep" layering of ever elusive meaning, to seem clever.

this is true though.

Hello plebo

Where is the essay?