Who here understands chinese rhetoric and formal essay writing convention?

who here understands chinese rhetoric and formal essay writing convention?

I'm looking for good reading on the subject so that I can understand it.

I don't speak chinese, but I'm learning. when I was learning french I learned a lot more about continental rhetoric before I became fluent, and I'm looking for something similar in chinese.

I know this is a long shot, but if anyone here has any idea, I'd appreciate it

Other urls found in this thread:

storyspeaker.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/a-parting-thought-in-my-own-process-by-bruce-lee/
poeticous.com/bruce-lee/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

This is going to be an amazing, thoughtful, helpful thread. I can tell by op's picture and op's terrible formatting. And OP's question. This isn't rhetorically minded for result.

thanks for the insight, buddy

You're welcome asshole

Fuck off, faggot

This is actually my department head's area of research, you could probably look up her articles (Hui Wu) and find a lot related to it, if only through backtracking citations. Though she does tend to focus on women sometimes.

>"Guiguzi," China's First Treatise on Rhetoric: A Critical Translation and Commentary

Nope.

Why don't you just live there for a few months? You'll definitely learn more than you would by studying for 3-4 years.

this looks like classic stuff, which I am interested in. I have studied a number of thinkers such as xunzi in moderate detail, and am familiar with particular styles, though it seems that they broadly defy categorization.

I'm not really satisfied with the "holistic" answer because of my professional needs.

is there stuff for modern writing? I am interested in how their modern rhetoric contrasts with their efforts to learn english style rhetoric in the classroom.

I really appreciate your help user.

I'm probably moving in 2 months. You're absolutely correct living there would teach me quite a lot. I'm just preparing atm

>ching-chong
>bing-bong

...

I should say, IF there is a modern style that is not defined by their classic style. they could, perhaps, be defined by their traditions, much like continental french writing.

I'm not really sure.

I only have a moderate understanding of neoconfucianism and the addiction type doctrine that allowed them to stay sovereign under the mongols and manchu. perhaps this necessitated adherence to old doctrines and necessitated deception, preventing the emergence of a more robust style enduring even today. I'm not sure, but these are the sorts of things I'd like to know.

Again, thank you user.

If you were ever curious what english sounded like to outsiders, you could imagine it as long strings of mushy, indistinct, similar sounds. kind of like how you might imagine arabic

rarkashalakashalahuackbar

I don't really understand what you're talking about tbph- I don't have a clue about French essay writing convention, or even English conventions.

But for Chinese, one term to search for might be zawen 杂文- short, really personal essays often on very 'minor' or random themes. They're a pretty important genre of modern lit.

Also bagu 八股, eight-legged essays, which were originally a formulaic style for imperial exams and became an insult for any overly-rigid language - which obviously the CCP is full of. This might lead you to more official styles.

English would probably sound like
soifthewhenNascarsotowardstheBasketballsowhenifDonaldTrumpsometimesgood

essential chinese hero and philosopher

Also a great poet here is some stuff. He also liked to translate chinese poems into english

storyspeaker.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/a-parting-thought-in-my-own-process-by-bruce-lee/
poeticous.com/bruce-lee/

thank you, this is seriously very helpful

kek. english has a preponderance of s,d ,r compared to many other languages

if you were to group things according to nonsense rather than real words, it gives you a better idea of the sound.

this is pretty routine stuff man, idk.

also, not rhetoric. what he's saying is the opposite of rhetoric

What are French and English conventions though? I'm intrigued.

Also, another thing that springs to mind based on >I am interested in how their modern rhetoric contrasts with their efforts to learn english style rhetoric in the classroom
When Chinese students learn to write they're taught that the more idioms they use the better- because Chinese literature has gone on continuously for about 3000 years, it's acquired a ridiculous number of quotes and set phrases (chengyu 成语) and good writers show off their skills by using piles of them (but using them judiciously).

They then apply this to English, which means that (if they're good at it) their writing will be a colossal string of cliches used more or less appropriately, along the lines of
>it was raining cats and dogs but we had a jolly good time because the early bird catches the worm

French style is more generally considered to be something called continental. which might be something akin to "allow me time to elaborate all my thoughts on topic A. now allow me plenty of time to elaborate on topic B. Perhaps I will elaborate on what connects them in a meandering manner, or perhaps you will need to yourself, infer the connection based on extensive literary background or cultural knowledge." which is a rather stark contrast with the very structured analytic english style, influenced by formal logic.

the lines have generally blurred since the 50's. harvard now goes around and publishes articles like "feminist glaciology" and the like. but the distinction remains useful for pedagogical purposes.

>chinese it influences the 4 character idioms
I guess I should have known that, but for some reason it was never really something that I would have guessed. this is very interesting. I can see where it would be more useful in chinese, as their idioms have more political context.

thank you very much

Forgot you were looking for chinese rhetoric but he is a good introduction to chinese literature and culture none the less. I wish someone like him translated more chinese poetry (I don't know if you are into chinese poetry) but he bleneded it with the west when he wrote his own

...actually I've just realised that when I said zawen I actually meant sanwen 散文, which is the term usually used for collections of essays by famous writers. Although apparently zawen is a type of sanwen that more or less matches what I was saying.

Also while googling that I found a book called 'The Chinese Essay' with a possibly useful introduction and translations of short essays across history.

not particularly interested but I guess it wouldn't hurt to know a little when I have more time

this is interesting because more serious scholarship in the west has switched to a similar format as peer review for nonscientific fields begins to decline as a format.

do you know anything about the origin of the format? english material seems scant on the subject