Is the first number 1 or 0

is the first number 1 or 0

i think its 1 beacuse 0 is nothing so it can't be a number which is a thing

PLEASE HELP

Iirc this is actually one of those things that's pretty artbitrary. On one hand I agree with your logic, but then I don't know where zero belongs.

OP is correct, 0 is not a number, rather it is a mathematical symbol to describe 'nothing' which is why so many operations with 0 are undefined. 2x2=4 which has to mean 4/2=2. That logic has to work for any number. But 0 fails to do this since 2x0=0 but 0/0 != 2

what other operations are undefined with zero you sperg

If you get a ruler and measure your penis you'll find the smallest known number.

0^0

Intersection of an arbitrary empty collection of sets

Any function f:A -> B with B the empty set

neither; 2
is the smallest number

0!

Lim n->0 of (1+n)^(1/n)

Dud I'm really high man and I don't know these maths....

0^0 is 1 man.. or 0... Look at the graph Mann..

Limegs real man...

0 is the set containing nothing lol

it equal 1 u fucking tardy....

i wish people like you were dead
t. actual mathfag

literally the only thing you're saying with this statement is that A is empty
i really really wish you were fucking dead god i hate you

first number is 0 btw OP
look up a construction of the naturals like e.g. peano or the one described in Jech

Limit
n --> 0

not n --> Infinity

thn it's just e u sperg LOL

...

No it's saying that f is not well defined. Kill yourself, please

> t. actual fag
ftfy

The first ordinal is one.

I prefer my Peano axioms to start with 1. I'm kind of a rebel.

People like you have ruined Veeky Forums. Fuck off to /s4s/

To avoid any ambiguity, I like to write [math]\mathbb{Z}_{>0}[/math] and [math]\mathbb{Z}_{\ge0}[/math] for when I want to exclude [math]0[/math] and include [math]0,[/math] respectively. Alternatively, I just write [math]\mathbb{N}_0[/math] if I want it to be crystal clear that I'm including [math]0.[/math] If the inclusion of [math]0[/math] doesn't change anything and I want none of the negative integers, I just write [math]\mathbb{N}.[/math]

You can construct the naturals without 0. It's a convention and depends on whether or not you want your set to include 0.

(You)
>0 is not a number

Yes, it is.

>rather it is a mathematical symbol

Right, because it's a number.

>to describe 'nothing'

Right, like how 1 describes "oneness" and negative one describes a specific void of "oneness," zero describes "nothingness."

>which is why so many operations with 0 are undefined.

You just don't understand what you are talking about. Just because division by zero is typically undefined doesn't make it not a number.

Pic related

>all these nonzero revisionists in this thread

Daily reminder that you are all heretics. Convert now or be purged on the day of the sword.

This. So much this. Let me suck you off.

>0 is not a number
>10 becomes 1
>20 becomes 2
>30 becomes 3
Go back to /b/, idiot

This is why the Fahrenheithe scale is ingenious. The equivalent to zero is 32.

>Fahrenheit or Celsius
>when you can use Kelvin
Why aren't you a Veeky Forumsentist, user?

I hate the "symbol" zero, so I absolutely hate the Kelvin scale.

...

I'm down, I could go for some good head.

Zero was a mistake. Why the fuck do you need a symbol to represent nothing?

0 is not nothing retards. It's the neutral element. Identity.

This isn't an argument. Consider 1^a where a is some real number. We know that for all values of a, 1^a=1. However, the inverse of this is not well defined.

> I multiplied 0 by some number and got 0. What number did I multiply it by?

> I raised 1 to the power of some number and got 1. What number did I raise it to?

Lots of operations are undefined for lots of reasons. What does that have to do with anything?

spotted the biggest 'tard in the thread

1 is the first number

0 is the zeroth number

If you construct the surreal numbers, 0 is the natural starting point, being a game with no moves or

-infinity is the first

That's not a number. It's an element of the extended reals, but it isn't a number. There is no first number would be a good way of putting it. If we're talking natural numbers, then it's a convention that varies between and even within different fields.