Well, Veeky Forums?

well, Veeky Forums?

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c3

move both levers to the middle position between on and off

B3

The answer is that the image is lying. It was created by Cheryl, as a way to get you to kill 20 people for her.

Albert: "I don't know which is the correct pad, but I know that you don't know either" implies that the letter is Not A and Not B. Because if it were A and the number was 6, Bernard would know the pad. And if it were B and the number were 5, then Bernard would also know the pad.

Bernard: "At first I didn't know which was the correct pad, but now I do" implies Bernard did not have 5 or 6; Albert's first statement means that the pad lies either in C or D. Path 1 is still unknown because there are pads on both C and D. So this means the pad must lie on either 2, 3, or 4, because these have only one pad in the C/D rail.

Albert: Albert now knows that the path is on either 2, 3, or 4, and also he knows it must be on C and D. There are two on D, and one on C, so it cannot be D since he knows which pad it is. Therefore it must be C.

So the answer is C3.

Out of the first line of the conversation, we know that Albert isn't sure which is the right pad. We can definitely say out of all the possible letters, he knows only the options which have multiple pads, him being unsure what the pad is. Ergo, at this point, his options are all four letters, ABCD. But then he says he knows Albert doesn't know either. This means his letter indicates a line where it doesn't intersect 5 or 6, the only lines which Albert would know for certain what the pad is. C or D are Albert's options at this point.

On the other hand, Bernard knows for sure what the option to choose is after hearing this admission from Albert. What this conveys to him is exactly what I've just said, if he's smart enough, so his options are the tracks which have only one pad on C or D combined. 2,3, and 4 are his options.

Finally, after Albert conveys this information, Bernard says he now knows for sure as well, indicating the fact that he knows Albert has 2, 3, or 4 and so will choose the line which has only one pad on it between C-D and 2-4, C.

C is the answer.

But are you ethically obliged to pull the lever to C3?

C3.

wtf I feel smart af

Before Albert speaks, he knows Bernard knows the number but not the pad so that rules out the single pads on lines 5 & 6. Which leaves a lone pad on line B. If it were this line Albert would know it then, but he doesn't, so it isn't line B.

Albert communicates this to Bernard.

So Bernard, knowing the above, is looking at four possible numbered lines, 1-4, three of which from his perspective have two possible pads (1, 2, 3) and one of which has one (4). He now says that he knows the correct pad, and the only way he can know the pad is if it is the newly-single pad at D4. If his line was 1, 2, or 3 he would have a choice of two pads on each line so he would not know.

So, D4.

underrated post

How does Albert learn the proper number and the correct path?

Just fucking mind reads it?

don't worry brainlet it's not your fault

kill cheryl

oh ok nevermind i figured it out

...

nono
Albert only knows the LETTER
So for him to say "I know you don't know the correct pad" It has to be C or D
Since A or B could have a line with a single pad.

Bernard knows the number, and is told that it is letters C or D, says he now knows the correct pad, meaning it isn't line 1

Albert says he now knows what the pad is, meaning it is line C, since line D could have 2 options

Yes, we know Albert only knows the letter, my working out is based on that.
Generally, to the rest of what you said, no. Look at the drawing, it's quite simple.

?
ur drawing doesn't make any sense
How can albert know what pad it is if its D4?
D has 2 valid options for Albert if that was his line

>Since A or B could have a line with a single pad.
No, line B can't have a single pad otherwise Albert would know it was the one as soon as he realised it was sole because lines 5 was off the menu. So it isn't line B.

The only way Bernard can know, is if he is looking at a single pad on one of his numbered lines, hence D4.

Because Bernard figured it out, therefore Albert was able to figure it out because he could see at that point Bernard only had one possible option. Look through my description, and look at the drawing. The keys are what they knew initially, and what they communicate to each other.

Meant to add, if Bernard didn't know at that point because his line had two pads on it, then Albert wouldn't have been able to figure it out either.

?
You are wrong
Albert tells Bernard its C or D
Bernard tells Albert that he knows it now, aka its line 2-3-4
Albert says he knows it, which means it must be C3, since line D would still have 2 options left.

How can it be D4?

I spin 720 degrees and walk away

>Albert tells Bernard its C or D

No he doesn't. By telling Bernard that he knows Bernard doesn't know, he is only inferring that it can't be line 5 or 6, which removes pads A6 and B5. And he tells Bernard that he Albert doesn't know. So because B5 has been removed, leaving B4 the sole possible on line B, if it were line B *Albert would know it*. But at this point he doesn't. So we can remove Line B and hence B4 as a possible. Hearing this, Bernard now says that he knows. The ONLY POSSIBLE WAY Bernard can know is if he is looking at a SOLE PAD on the line he knows is the correct line. Line 1 2 3 still have two possible pads on them. Line 4 has only the pad on D.

>No he doesn't.
Yes he literally does..
Albert doesn't know what number it is, he only knows what letter it is.
By saying Bernard doesn't know it either, he's telling him that it isn't A or B, since line A and B have single pads.

>which removes pads A6 and B5
?
It removes the whole lines.... Albert has no knowledge other than what letter it is, this isn't knowledge being magic'd into his head, this is simple deduction.
If it were Line A or B, then Bernard would have the possibility of already knowing the pad.
Since Albert says he doesn't, we can deduce it isn't line A or B

Grid logic solution.

You're not getting it, are you. I can't do any more, read what I've said and try to follow it. Just once. Forget how you are explaining it to yourself and read what I wrote with a fresh eye.

How could Bernard know if it were on A? Every other letter track has pads.

This is wrong.

very nice user.

Remove the pads Bernard knows aren't right, A6, B5.
Remove the sole pad Albert knows isn't right, B4.(Because at this point he says he still doesn't know)

Bernard then knows which pad it is. Therefore he must be looking at a sole pad. The only sole pad left is D4.

are you non-white

wait, shouldn't the first sentence eliminate only 5 and 6 because Bernard would know the pad if it were A6 And B5, how does it eliminate the letter too?

pl0x help

Because he's ALBERT
Albert knows already what letter it is
He sees that it's (c), though he doesn't tell us
So he makes this statement that he KNOWS Bernard doesn't know what it is

aka
It isn't A or B. Because if it was A or B he couldn't know that.

It's not eliminating 5 or 6, it's eliminating A or B

when you say that albert would know the answer if it were B4, you're falsely double counting albert's assumptions on his limited knowledge. Albert cannot know it's not B4 and also assert bernard doesn't know in the same (first) sentence.

It has to eliminate A and B because albert could not say with certainty that bernard doesn't know it. If it WERE lines A or B, he could only say that he (albert) doesn't know but bernard MIGHT know (if the numbers were 5 or 6)

C3 is the answer.

Nothing, I side with Cheryl

REEEE
sometimes I hate myself, I was doing this problem without ever realizing there was a 6th column

No, it's right. Both a and b have pads on them that are unique to their number-therefore, if it were track a or b there would be a chance that bernard would know it. Since Albert says Bernard cannot know it based just on the number, that climates tracks a and b.
Thanks user, that actually means a lot to me. Anonymous praise is the sincerest.

Blood on my hands or blood on hers. I will let the trollies not hit. Thou shalt not kill.

>Both a and b have pads on them that are unique to their number
Why do you keep saying this? It doesn't make sense. All numbered lines have two pads on, after removing 5 & 6. I cannot see that you are making a logical point with this statement. Can you be more precise?

> Albert cannot know it's not B4 and also assert bernard doesn't know in the same (first) sentence.
THATS EXACTLY WRONG, THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE GOING WRONG. The initial condition is Albert knows Bernard doesn't know; it's a given. At this point, before the communication, Albert knows it's not line B (we don't know this initially, it becomes clear in the next step.) Then it's the timing of the communications. When B4 is left as the only pad on line B Albert THEN tells Bernard he still doesn't know the answer, because he (Albert) knows it's not line B. THEN Bernard replies that he now does know. Because Bernard is now aware that Albert still doesn't know, so Albert must know it isn't the sole pad B4 and Bernard sees this. Bernard now knows the answer because there is now only one lone pad, D4.

Why are you removing 5 & 6
Albert CANNOT know it isn't 5 & 6, all he can know is the letter

Albert knows it is C, he can eliminate any number that doesn't have a pad on C

I don't get how either of them can know anything besides what character and number they both have. How can they gain any knowledge besides that?

he doesn't TELL us that
He only tells us that he KNOWS Bernard doesn't either, which means it can't be A or B because those lines have a possibility that Bernard WOULD know

this is some retarded shit
it can be ANY PAD but you retards still go
>since he said this unrelated phrase it eliminates every pad except c3, ergo it's c3
they dont tell each other the letter/number and they are not fucking psychics

>this is some retarded shit
Hello, some retarded shit.

You don't have to introduce yourself when posting, BTW.

>Cheryl(Carol?) killing people with trains.
>Albert and Bernard
>not Ray and Randy
You had one job.

BERNARD knows it isn't 5 or 6 because he knows the line but doesn't know the answer; only one pad on 5 & 6 so it's not them.

FFS are you trolling or do you not read previous posts? It's here:
and here
and here
and here

are you ?

Funny, my sides are in orbit.

>BERNARD knows it isn't 5 or 6 because he knows the line but doesn't know the answer; only one pad on 5 & 6 so it's not them.

And Albert infers this when Bernard tells him he doesn't know.

That's actually a pretty nice troll.

Waiting for your criticism then.

Albert KNOWS it from the beginning because he knows its line c

Explain? Step by step, from the initial conditions?

That's not criticism, i think it's clever how you managed to get a different answer using flawed logic and still making it sound reasonable. The mistake is quite subtle.

??
he's told the letter
he knows it

Then he says that he also knows Bernard doesn't know it, meaning that the letter cannot be A or B, as those letters both have a possibility of Bernard knowing it

>Albert: "I don't know which is the correct pad, but I know that you don't know either"
>Bernard: "I still don't know which is the correct pad."
>Albert: "I now know."
>Bernard: "So do I."

>meaning that the letter cannot be A or B, as those letters both have a possibility of Bernard knowing it
How? Spell it out, please.

nice adhom faggot
now refute my arguments

Here you go

Let's say Albert was told it's on line A (or B). Can he say for certain that Bernard doesn't know the exact pad?

No, because if the number was 6 (or 5), Bernard would know the answer, because there's only one pad on those lines.

Therefore, since Albert says he knows Bernard doesn't know, Bernard can infer that it can't be on line A or B. And he already knows it can only be on either line A or C, so he now knows the answer.

>Let's say Albert was told it's on line A (or B). Can he say for certain that Bernard doesn't know the exact pad? No, because if the number was 6 (or 5), Bernard would know the answer, because there's only one pad on those lines.

Bernard would know it's not line 5 or 6, but could not make any further assumptions about line A or B initially. Agreed?

Albert could not be sure that Bernard couldn't know the pad, if it was A or B

It cannot be A or B
It's not a pad or number thing, its a letter thing
Albert knows the letter and makes a statement based on the letter

>female
>scientist

>Can he say for certain that Bernard doesn't know the exact pad?
Yes. This is one of the initial conditions given.

Bernard knows it is on line 3. He therefore know it is either on line A or C, because they are the only lines with pads on line 3.

If it was on line A, Albert couldn't say he knows for certain Bernard doesn't know.

So Bernard knows after Albert tells him.

Look here!
Albert knows that Bernard doesn't know. It's one of the initial givens. You're basing your thinking on a flawed assumption.

See? This is where your reasoning falls apart because Albert initially can say for certain that Bernard doesn't know BECAUSE IT IS AN INITIAL GIVEN CONDITION.

No it's not. We only know that Albert was told a letter and Bernard was told a number. No indication is given whether that was sufficient or insufficient information for either person to deduce the pad, until Albert's statement, which is based solely on the information he was given.

True. Sorry, I was wrong. This is known after Albert's first statement.

Add me to the c3 group

i like these types of puzzles where you actually need to think without it trying to trick you with semantic bullshit or where you need to know some obscure trivia.

Add me to the c3 group

Why, explain please?

Try

But it doesn't change the main point here that Albert did know that Bernard didn't know.

By virtue of the fact that he knows it is on line C, and therefore can't be on lines 5 and 6.

In this instance, that would be B4. The only single pad left after lines 5 and 6 are ruled out. It's easier to see this one, because Albert immediately knows so it must be the only lone pad.

Why? You still haven't said why he knows it's on line C, you've given no reasoning except which doesn't make sense, I questioned earlier and you haven't replied to in any way that makes sense.

>first statement is identical to the OP, which allows you to eliminate lines A and B

>It's B4

Try again

these trolley problems are really getting out of control

Albert is told it's on line C at the start by Cheryl.

No, doesn't make sense. I didn't say eliminate A & B, I said 5 & 6.

So explain it, lay it out for me in simple phrases, step by step, like I'm an idiot. Don't just say "he was told C" because we don't know it from the start. Start at the beginning.

This is you:
youtube.com/watch?v=9ypaXNVPkSg

I've eliminated 5, 6 and B but that's as far as I got.

So that leaves D4 as the only pad on its own. Bernard then says he knows the answer so it must be the only sole pad, D4.

Explain why or STFU, asshole.

It's been explained multiple times already.

It's alright user, not everyone gets it. It's okay.

This took me too long to understand.
I kept eliminating numbers first...
"I know you don't know either"

So why are so many people saying C3?

That was a hard one, OP.

you are retarded

It's dumb as fuck
sure c3 is the answer to this riddle, but it wouldn't work IRL
>y
"at first I didn't know but now I do"
that means that since we have excluded A and B
the only left possible choices are D 2 , D 4 and C 3 (cuz there are 2 plates on lane 1 and therefore number guy Bernard can't know on his own)
Now letter guy Albert know the correct pad. Logically that leaves C because he has 2 pands on D and therefore he wouldn't know. We take his words as a fact (because OP has written them there) and thus solve the riddle.But in actuallity he doesn't know shit, Only Bernard knows because he has only one pad on each number.
Albert can't know for sure and we can't know for sure too.

Because the answer D4 is based on a flaw already explained ITT

Just noticed it in comment with grid logic. Wanted to solve it myself though.

C3 then it is.

I understand how it can't be 5 or 6, but don't get why it can't be A or B.

It's been explained a gorillion times already.

Albert can only be sure that Bernard doesn't know if he's told a track letter different than A or B, therefore it cannot be A or B. If he were told A or B, he could not be as certain as he is.

Albert only knows what letter it is on, yet HE knows it's not on 5 or 6. The only way he can know that is if he knows it's not on A or B

Albert knows a letter. Nothing else. And this letter allows him to know that it's not 5 or 6. Thus his letter is either C or D

Sure we can remove B, but there are still 2 possible pads on A, so why are we excluding A also?