>Behold! I show you The Ultimate Man. "What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?" – asks the Ultimate Man and blinks. The earth has then become small and on it there hops the Ultimate Man who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the Ultimate Man lives longest. "We have discovered happiness"— say the Ultimate Men and blink. They have left the regions where it is hard to live; for they need warmth. One still loves one’s neighbour and rubs again him; for one needs warmth. Sickness and mistrust they consider sinful: they walk warily. He is a fool who still stumbles over stones or over men! A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And a lot of poison at the end for a pleasant death. One still works for work is a pastime. But they take care that this pastime does not weary them. No-one becomes poor or rich anymore; both are too wearying. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too much of a burden. No herdsman and one herd! Everyone wants the same, everyone is the same: whoever thinks otherwise goes voluntarily into the madhouse. "Before, the whole world was mad"— say the cleverest amongst them and blink. They are clever and know all that has ever happened: so there is no end to their mockery. People still quarrel, but are soon reconciled— otherwise indigestion would result. They have their little pleasures for the day and their little pleasures for the night: but they respect health. "We have discovered happiness "— say the Ultimate Men and blink.
"Ultimate" man is a weird translation. Last man sounds more appropriate.
William Lee
I don't believe in spook ideologies or philosophies
Justin Davis
what do you think ultimate means
Ryan Walker
In English ultimate has a connotation of supremacy. "Last" on the other hand better coveys Nietzsche's negative view of this hypothetical man.
Grayson Stewart
>In English ultimate has a connotation of supremacy it only picked that up because of the way that it was used in theology
it's not the correct use of the word and I'll fight anybody who says otherwise
Jason Rogers
Mr Hyneman is looking pretty spiffy in that coat if you ask me
Eli Anderson
Is being the Final Man not a good thing?
Gabriel Martin
>what is love Baby don't hurt me
Charles Williams
According to Nietzsche it is the worst thing to be
Alexander Adams
Regardless of the cause, "highest" and "greatest" and "maximum" are various definitions of the word now. It is not the ultimate man, it is the last man, i.e. the man from which nothing grows from, nothing proceeds from, because he completely lacks conflict in his cushioned bubble of a life, therefore he lacks all creative energy too.
Grayson Brooks
Honestly Veeky Forums, which would you rather be:
1. A largely contented guy, working 40 hours a week with an attractive wife and handsome respectful children, enjoying good health and taking several annual holidays around the world, attending the theatre and feeling satisfied that the values in your life may be subjective but they are nonetheless meaningful to you and your community
2. A cross-eyed weirdo with barely any friends who lives along in the middle of nowhere writing angry essays about how the tourists you see hiking nearby are stupid and how women are inferior to you, all the while attempting to adopt a masculine image by attacking Schopenhauer and spending countless hours illustrating the ideal man who is noble and brave and independent while you yourself rely on your Naziboo sister to bathe and feed you and can't eat ot drink anything substantial without becoming ill
Jaxson Scott
the first thing.
Ayden Sanchez
>working 40 hours a week >mostly content
Not compatible for me my friend
Tyler Allen
yeah obviously he's telling you you'd have a different mindset. It's all about mindset, the ultimate man. user isn't offering you a real choice of lifestyles to live one of which you can pick and apply on yourself, he is asking you a hypothetical question. Is the ultimate man (defined by his attitude, his mindset, his disposition towards values, happiness and whatnot) preferabe to the Übermensch - well no, to be fair, he's asking is it preferable to being Nietzsche, so seeking to become the Übermensch.
Evan Jenkins
/thread
Jeremiah Ortiz
Nietzsche never claimed every facet of his life reached ubermensch status. He instead considered himself the ubermensch's prophet.
More to the point of your question, Nietzsche wouldn't have been on board with making value judgments about whether one person's lifestyle was more "ubermenschy" or less "last manesque" than another. Arguably for some men the first lifestyle is a better way to satiate his will to power. Others might be better off as musicians or farmers. What matters is whether you are answering the calling you create.
Benjamin Richardson
Superman would be better
Christopher Mitchell
Then you're a weak-willed loser.
Noah Myers
>answering the calling
Literally new-age pseudoscience. Ever wonder why African-American communities are so shit-tier? It's partly because so many young black guys think they are the next Lil Wayne
>"ayo hol' up I ain't gonna find me a job I'm finna make me a million dollas rapping bout' shooting up hood!"
Ubermensch indeed.
Nathan Gomez
This is a great example of why translations matter. The other translation is "last man," which avoids the misleading connotation of "ultimate." The last man is the antithesis of the ubermensch for Nietzsche. The last men are those who don't understand the significance of gods death and usher in the age of nihilism. You don't want to be the last man.
Joseph Barnes
People like that are imperfect manifestations of the will to power. Kanye West would be a purer manifestation.
Nietzsche never suggested everyone who tried to live life vibrantly would succeed.
Nathaniel Hill
How is the last man nihilistic? If anything he is too invested in ideals, albeit man-made ones which serve only to encourage him to be exactly like his neighbor.
Truly Nietzsche enthusiastic can be separated into three distinct categories:
1. Edgy Ayn Rand-tier teenagers
2. Edgy 2dep4u gymbros
3. Enlightened scholars such as myself
Tyler Rodriguez
Fuck. goddamn you. Why have I never noticed those 2 look alike. literally cannot fucking unsee. fuck
Isaac Phillips
Kanye West is a delusional mooncricket who doesn't even create good music any more. Is he really your conception of the "last man"? His political rants are illogical, his wife is a pornstar famous for getting BLACKED, and he himself is not an intelligent person in any significant sense. He is a narcissistic self-promoter who is riding on the coat-tails of the man he used to be.
Do you honestly think Nietzsche would look at Kanye West and think "finally, the Ubermensch has risen!"?
Blake Hill
Which translation is this anyway?
Juan Young
Kek. That was good. The last man is not nihilistic in the sense that he thinks nothing matters. I said he ushers in the age of nihilism. Which means that he has lost sight of the value of our values. There is no longer any profundity or creativity to his thoughts and beliefs, and he doesn't question any of the assumptions that underlie his life. Hence he "blinks" at these important questions.
Carter King
But yeah I think you're right that there's a sense in which he's too invested in his ideals. It's just not the right type of critical investment which Nietzsche wants.
Cameron Diaz
>Is he really your conception of the "last man"? no you idiot, the last man is BAD, Kanye is an Übermensch, as is Trump. Peope that make, and believe, their own realities that come from their inherent will.
Obviously you'd want to be the first faggot given your wording of the second one.
Wanting to just be content in life is for people with small self-centered dreams. Which is fine. Some people have greater ambitions though.
Joshua Jones
Have you actually read Zarathustra?
James Carter
Au contraire.
Brody Lewis
You're the one who hasn't read Nietzsche. You keep bringing up the last man as though he is a positive archetype. The last man is the most negative possible lifestyle for Nietzsche, like a fag nu-male hipster Christian.
Cooper Robinson
It's like a most common and servile and placated; last is better imo too
Brandon Johnson
>like a fag nu-male hipster Christian. it's more like an smug, self-satisfied pacifist english intellectual, or basically bertrand russell taken to another level
Austin Cooper
>a fag nu-male hipster Christian. one of these is not like the others
Lucas Carter
For those who do not understand: The Ultimate Man =/= Übermensch. The Ultimate Man, is the last man, the lowest and final breed of mankind that will (and does) rule the world before the coming of the übermensch
Dominic Diaz
>bertrand russell
Why would you ever try to disrespect him
Jayden Cruz
>albeit man-made ones as opposed to ideals created by god? delete your existance ASAP
Caleb Martinez
Never Talk About Nietzsche Ever Again.
Colton Evans
In the OP paragraph, it seems it can be read possibly, as ultimate being sarcastic, like the height of evolution of man, is a homogenous comfortable equal perfection, whereas Nietchse was afraid that noone would try to dare to reach greater heights than the masses
Thomas Price
>whereas Nietchse was afraid that noone would try to dare to reach greater heights than the masses
it's of course too much to ask, but find me a single passage where he states this. He wasn't afraid of this. The last man is the "ultimate step" before Mankind can be overcome. It is due to them that the Übermensch can emerge, so there isn't any reason to be afraid, they are the requirement for the overcoming of man.
by the way, just for the information of the pseuds here, so that they don't embarrass themself too much: Zarathustra was not the Übermensch, he was a prophet of the coming of the Übermensch.
Julian James
So your interpretation of Ubermench is literal scientific transhumanism? (I mean that would certainly fit the description in one way, but I also figured he was also referring to 'in ways above, and/or beyond, average people')
Hunter Baker
I didn't say anything about my interpretation of the Übermensch. No it's not literal scientific transhumanism. The "Overman" is a new form of "spiritual species", so there aren't any correlations.
>in one way, but I also figured he was also referring to 'in ways above, and/or beyond, average people
If average people means for you man as a species in general, then yes. if you mean average people as really what it usually means then no. As i've said even Nietzsche's Zarathustra was "all too human".
Adam Jenkins
So can you give some descriptions of what the Ubermench might be like, do you mean, natural evolution like how there is the missing link between chimps and humans, there will be a new species, but you mentioned spiritual, which makes me think, that if people just formed a cult and only thought certain ways they would be ubermensch, for spiritually transcending the status quo?
Or a mix of that, spiritual cult..ure, and physical biological evolution?
Jaxson Wilson
Nietzsche rejects any relation to darwinism but he compares it with the evolution from ape to man (No missing link though). There are biological connotations to his thought, but you can't narrow the Übermensch down to it.
Really just read Nietzsche if it interests you, he explores the Übermensch various times in his works, without reaching a clear definition, it is an ambivalent concept and Nietzsche mocked the definitions of others during his time, which are really what people take for granted this day to be the übermensch. So i hold back in embarrassing myself by trying to give a clear image of something that Nietzsche himself has loosely defined.
It can be said that the Übermensch is an utopic vision of mankind, that it represents the will to power and the radical creativity that Nietzsche describes in his 3 metamorphoses as the stage of the child. Outside of that consult Thus spoke Zarathustra.
Josiah Barnes
Oh, just to add: Nietzsche was unideological.
Adam Smith
I'm already pretty close to the second option.
Matthew Harris
he was a hack
Joshua Hall
>*teleports behind you* >puts sabre to your throat >"do you believe in God?" >"yes" >decapitates you >pssht.. nothin' personal untermench
Cameron Hill
you forgot to add "cad" to your description of bertie
Austin Miller
thats wrong, last man is the opposite of übermensch, if humanity has reached that stage it is impossible for the übermensch to rise from the herd
Brody Campbell
Nietzsche was wrong about that. It's like he was impatient and just wanted things to change or fall apart as soon as possible. Humans can never push out the pressures of nature completely.
Parker Richardson
no the last man can not be overcome, it is too barren to bear another fruit, that's why it's the last man, because there will be none after
he explicitly says so it's quite clear
Christopher Murphy
Man isn't shaped completely by the hands of man though. Nature won't completely disappear just like that.
Kayden Nguyen
Looking at the top half of the face at least I think Josh Radnor desu. I think we'd be in double take territory with a walrus stache. That would make him walrus number 2 out of the HIMYM camp
Aaron Peterson
Science is growing more powerful by the day, if it keeps up eventually the only threat will be solar expansion. If we survive this global warming, draught, overpopulation shit there's really nothing nature can do to stop us.
Joseph Reyes
>says the ultimate men and blink.
This makes me giggle.
Colton James
N's idea of an übermensch was bascally a aoupsd up Renaissance man who's imagination was not held back by theology, social mores, nationalism, or the base drives of the Darwinian ape.
These philosopher-leaders would rise above nihilism and live for the here and now rather some promise of an afterlife or vague political utopia of the future.
