Wasting 4 years of his life and putting himself in tens of thousands of dollars of debt to get a STEM degree

>wasting 4 years
You shouldn't consider higher education a waste, pal.

>tens of thousands of dollars of debt

Higher education is subsidized in my country. It is called being a first world country, americuck. Not my fault that your politicians are so corrupt they will literally squeeze pennies out of penniless students.

>not just applying to a good Veeky Forums related trade

Nothing wrong with choosing this route but also nothing wrong with going the other way. That said, if you go the trade route for electrician or whatever then you will never do any research at all, which kinda defeats the purpose of STEM.

how is it possible to study anatomy for 4 years

Oh I just really happen to like science. To each his own though

Sheit.
You're the first person I've seen with a larger stipend than me, congrats.

t. Inadequate fag with 25k stipend

>Veeky Forums related trade
thats what engineering is fampai.

A lot of people will bash his message but I think many people attending university would be better off in a trade.
I do TA and tutoring work and the simple concepts people struggle with tells me these people are not meant to be in university. They just are not smart enough for higher education.
However they would probably do alright in a trade.
In a trade you are given the solution to the problems and all you do is apply technique to solve that problem.
>pipe is leaking; replace pipe
>starter is dead; replace starter
>joint is broken; weld joint
The hardest part about a trade is when you come across a problem you weren't shown how to solve or never seen before and this is why experience is hailed in the trades. But even then, it is something that can be solved by applying previously established and learned techniques.
I mean, though, let's be honest...the reason people don't want to do trades is because they fucking suck. It is legitimately hard work for really shitty pay.
Don't even let the trade memers tell you otherwise either, do your research on the BLS and see how much trade workers really make. There is a reason they don't make much and it is because any idiot could do the job.
Going to a trade over university is basically a statement that you aren't smart enough for university, but there is nothing wrong with this and I agree with Mike in that these people should not just rack debt in university for nothing to be gained.
But really, given the option...any person is going to try to university because it is an infinitely better opportunity than learning a trade.
It is really only in university that people find out they are not actually intelligent enough to be successful in higher education.
The sad part is, now, there are a lot of degrees you can just skim by and bullshit through. Which then leaves people in debt with nothing real to show and no work opportunities.

I thought 30k was normal, that's what we get at my school.

t. genetics grad student

>tfw 19k stipend

>not a waste, met girlfriend, made friends, and had a wonderful time
>went to a private school with 'full need' policy; I have 0 debt
>starting salary at my first job is $120k/yr

Going to college has been completely profitable for me. What I did pay (a negligible amount < $7000) I was able to earn during the summers, and I'm going to see a return within the first few weeks of working.

>Veeky Forums-related trade
Take the trade-meme back to l e d d i t, please.
If this ""Veeky Forums-related''' trade you speak of doesn't involve research, I wouldn't call it Veeky Forums-related. Then again, most things on Veeky Forums aren't science-related either (your thread for example.)

Op is just jealous he can't get a degree

Should have called it the C.U.C.K. Pledge.

What's your field, though? Unless you're dead-set on being a professor, a PhD is likely a literal waste of time.

Let's say you study CS. It's going to take you around 5-6 years at MIT (potentially longer) earn your PhD, maybe 4 if you really ignore the connections you're able to make there.

Somebody who is able to earn admittance to MIT is more likely than not able to earn a place at one of the highest-paying firms out of college. Total compensation (at the top of the market) is around $200k your first year, and, assuming a modest raise rate of 2%, this will reach about $220k by the end of your time you would spend earning a PhD. Now note that the difference between how much a PhD holder earns at these places (assuming you're able to reach the higher bar and are not simply overqualified) is negligible (~+$3,000).

Let's calculate your losses now. Over the six years you spend earning your PhD, you've lost the opportunity to make about a $1,000,000; let's offset this by your yearly stipend: you've now lost over $800,000. Now, over the course of your (45-50)-year career, you'll make about $150,000 more than somebody without a PhD: your figure is now down to $550,000. If you were to instead take that difference and put it into a pre-tax investment fund earning a modest 5% (over the course of your life), by the time you're done working, you would be about -$4,000,000- poorer than you would be otherwise.

Unless you're legitimately in love with academia, a PhD is literally the worst financial decision you could make in certain fields. If you want to do research, just get a MS; that's all you need to be able to do industry research.

>Not getting your university education for free

ISHYGDDT

I'm starting to fucking hate this guy. He's the epitome "Well I don't know much, but here's a bunch of shit I think everyone else should do with their lives" and uses that to spread this bullshit that people should just accept what's on their plate and never strive for something better.

This list should just be summed as "Be a happy worker robot"

>won the greatest lottery
>live in America

kek nice try

XDDD this guy

I have a trade and my country paid for my college.

You can do both.

You can strive for better and still cultivate a deep sense of gratefulness for everything you currently have, as well as a nonjudgmentalness towards your own sensations.

"Take away the complain of harm, and often, you take away the harm itself" - Marcus Aurelius.

It doesn't mean take away the complaint in the sense of, shut up and be miserable inside your head, but rather, don't judge and accept it as it is, and often you'll find the harm you perceived doesn't exist.

its learning to be happy bro. Yeah, I don't like how he phrases it, but the sentiment is there.

Your example is totally specific to CS.. ofc you should get a job over academia for CS. Same cannot be said for all fields of study.

I'm incredibly grateful to the people who have helped me along. I'm also helpful to the people who gave me a loan to return to school and be a Biochemist.

"deplore debt" is just fucking mental. Debt is actually good if you can manage it because you can overcome barriers to your growth.

And no, you do need to follow passion. Life is not worth living if you don't care about what you're doing. You need to find ways to ensure your skill is marketable, but nobody can do any job with passion and enthusiasm.

There are, in fact, such things as bad jobs.

There are, in fact, things beyond our control. Knowing we influence our world is good, but don't pretend you are the reason you are always suffering. Sometimes you suffer because of the callousness of others, and you should seek to Solve your problems, not Suffer them.

Really I'm starting think this guy is just a propagandist

typo: I'm also grateful* (didnt mean helpful); sorry I'm just triggered by this fucker

Haha what a cuck
>debt
Fucking Americans haha
I go to university free
Tradesmen are lowclass brainlets who pay for my university
Have fun digging holes while I'll solve meaningful problems
I guess that would be the average American attitude considering they voted for Trump
>we need more jobs!
>cuts funding to sectors that provide jobs
Laughing stock
No no, please bring back all the slave jobs because americans want those (I guess they do since they are brainlets and cannot do anything else but bolt together car parts)

this

Euros and Ameritards are fucking idiots. Here in China we have possibly the best college system and it's completely free. Westerners need to off themselves right now.

howabout we just come to China, sounds good over there

>that feel when your study is never going to be questioned only because you're from shitty lying chinkland

I am dead set on becoming a professor, no doubt in my mind about it.

This is actually really insightful. I'm glad I came to this thread. Thanks.

>Euros and Ameritards are fucking idiots. Here in China we have possibly the best college system and it's completely free.
As opposed to Europe?

Delusional Westerner

i don't know. i think many code monkey jobs would be better in a master / apprentice role, 4 years of education isn't necessary for a lot of jobs in the field. and people just looking for jobs shouldn't treat university as a place to "get the jobs." but the expectation is that the payoff will be considerably higher going to school than not. don't post a picture of a retarded boomer, the possibilities of getting a high paying job by "working your way up" does not exist to the extent it did before. a 4 year degree is unfortunately a requirement to even get your foot in the door for a lot of decent places. wasting time and money in higher education is the new "standard," enjoy whatever it is you do op

Second this. Never heard of degree in anatomy-- sounds retarded

>Win the greatest lottery
>Get shot ordering breakfast

but user, i want to design microprocessors.

And also, chinese scientists create most studies based on falsified results. Never forget that. Chinese are the worst thing that ever happened to science.

>capitalism means people should act in their own interest

>except workers. they should all be dumb cucked slaves to big companies

Is it bad if that there's nothing wrong with that picture?

Communism is strong in this post. They really do brainwash you on those UNIs

>US is having commercial space programs in place
>China can barely launch satellites using Cold War Era technology
It's coming back to bite them in the ass.

>communism and capitalism are the only two things that exist!

>Almost all launches are government contract

>"commercial" space programs

>implying every PhD student doesn't know this

There is more to life, bud. You can make plenty of money after a PhD.

If I may ask, which Uni?

first two years are filled with bullshit, mainly. I've also noticed people with weak degrees have super light work loads and are barely full time students.

>You shouldn't consider higher education a waste, pal.
Why not? The education system in general alot of the times is shit, and I have always hated it. Whats wrong with at least being honest about how shit it is

The elephant in the room: this guy's just a TV actor??? Why do any of us give a shit about what he thinks are important work values?

because americans have such a celebrity oriented culture that they listen to celebrities who are celebrities because they pretend not to be celebrities.

mike rowe gets to tell people to commit themselves to jobs that will have them on disability in their 50's because he looks and sounds the part enough. that's it.

Mike Rowe has a 4 year degree in communications. He doesn't work hard. He "works" for television shows for maybe an hour a day and makes hundreds of thousands of dollars. He gets rich by selling the blue collar working class the idea that college is a scam. Nothing more.

people take a max 4 years to get a phd here you ignorant fuck. do you even use linkedin?

Ironic right?

>I go to university free
No, you pay for it through taxes, pushing your income down, meanwhile CS brainlets in the US earn 6 figure out of college.

>he didn't even read the post
>>Tradesmen are lowclass brainlets who pay for my university

And what's the average salary for a programmer in France? :^)

>he thinks anyone gives a piss about code monkeys
Fuck off CS faggot
No one gives a shit about your profession as made evident by the willingness of companies to pay an Indian dirt to do the work
"programming" will be completely outsourced to India, SEA, and SA in the next ten years.
Programming can be learned by NEETs in their mothers basement
I went to university and learned something meaningful, not a glorified trade

Rump rustled?

Wrong actually. Outsourcing to Inda et al is on the decline. It turns out that paying shit workers to do a garbage job is actually a waste of money. For shitty companies with no awareness it may look good on paper for some useless manager, "look at the savings!!!," but the reality is it is more cost effective to hire someone actually decent than have to clean up after 3rd rate work, and this is reflected in industry.

Also if you can be replaced by outsourcing to garbage labour then you suck a lot. This is your problem.

>unironically shitposting Mike Rowe
he's a virtue-signaling moron trying to recruit fellow wagecucks for trump

>never do any research at all, which kinda defeats the purpose of STEM.

>people get STEM degrees so they can do research

LOL

it's actually not

at least in the US, you can make very good money doing trades after you're done with apprenticeship

I'm certainly not stupid with my money but goddamn, your life revolves around the stuff. I've managed to live off of $15000 a year so far and I have no complaints.

>I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time... I live in America

>there is no such thing as a bad job

what a stupid statement

>If you were to instead take that difference and put it into a pre-tax investment fund earning a modest 5% (over the course of your life), by the time you're done working, you would be about -$4,000,000- poorer than you would be otherwise.

but that's wrong and you clearly don't know anything about investing if you think that is the reality.

You realize trades are still STEM, right?

>assuming $200k starting salary out of undergrad
>doing mental backflips with investment decisions to make PhDs look like shit
>literally the "why would anyone want a PhD over an MSc in 2017???" Meme.
>implying people with a PhD don't have unlimited upward potential due to being a certified expert in their field

All of that makes you sound ridiculous, but
>$200k starting
That's how I know you are still a teenager. People drool at the mouth for 80-90k starting position in engineering out of undergrad. Your "top positions" are probably around 100k in San Francisco where all your $$ are just going to rent anyway. Welcome to IRL kiddo. Hate that you had to find out this way :^)

As for the PhD, I've been in my program for 8 months and never thought I would do cooler shit than this in my entire life, meet more amazing people, see more mind blowing stuff, etc. I had my doubts going in. I would not do a thing different now.

>implying people with a PhD don't have unlimited upward potential due to being a certified expert in their field
lmao

Everyone knows that PhD students don't know shit. They don't even know that they don't know shit. You don't become an "expert" until you've worked in the field for years, post grad.

we must imagine Sisyphus happy

Nice try chink-man, but if your education system is so great, why are there so many chinks in my 2nd rate (compared with EU) EU-university?

Knowledge isn't everything, especially in math-heavy fields. In theory, your research skills should be on par with most established researchers in your field after a PhD. All that's left is to gain more knowledge and experience, which is indeed what you should be doing as a postdoc.

It's not specific to shit. CS majors don't start at 200k with a bachelor's

How are those two statements mutually exclusive?

Answer that trollorino

the degree is more prestigious, more flexible, and offers a more rounded education.

faggot.

>college is for obtaining a degree

Big picture, it's about proving you can commit to something for four years and complete it. That's the real value.

What about the commitment to finishing schooling for 12 years, that happens before it?

>implying I live in burger land
>implying I didn't get around twice what I needed for living simply because of the fact that I was a student during my Bachelor's studies
>implying I have to pay more than half of that amound back
>implying I have to pay interest on what I owe
>implying I am not using my free time during my Master's studies to work in my field and make even more per month, make connections and learn a shit load of practical applications
>implying I won't get hired at the place I work at right now, for a comfy research position in video analysis and coding
>implying I won't be able to afford a nice car, house and any hobby I can think of by the time I'm 30
>implying I don't get to suck all the cock I could crave
Being an engineer in Germany is FUN.

I have one goal in life: to utterly destroy other peoples jobs.

>commitment
College is voluntary, school is not.

So you work in HR?

But I'm a welder