Yukio Mishima thread

Hey guys. I have recently started reading spring snow by Mishima and so far it's been somewhat underwhelming.

I'm not a huge fan of descriptive imagery for the sake of descriptive imagery and so far there has been little else.

I am curious of your thoughts about Mishima; this is the first of his works I've gotten around to.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokohama_Kaidashi_Kikō
eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/PiecStri.shtml
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I just read Patriotism today, and saw his movie of the same name. I've only ever read Sailor before and i loved it. I was deciding whether to read Spring Snow next after what im currently finishing and i think i will, maybe i can start it later if you want to talk Mishima, i would. I saw the Schneider biopic and thats when i became fascinated by Mishima, i even took Japanese in grade 12 with plans to someday know it well enough to read him in the original.
Also in terms of the imagery, i know he does this a lot, i personally like it when its done well

I only read confessions and the imagery is not entirely predominant but probably what I liked the most about it

I really liked Sailor who fell from grace with the sea when I read it.

Sound of Waves was also pretty boss.

>fan of descriptive imagery for the sake of descriptive imagery
It sounds like you are aren't that familiar with eastern ways of thinking. Descriptions in Japanese literature tend to be there to highlight some combination of aesthetic contemplation with the Japanese concept of mono no aware and is more than just ornamentory. I would say that if you don't like those kinds of descriptions you won't like almost everything that comes from Japan or China.

can you give me more examples of Japanese literature/poetry that deal in this concept of mono no aware? I'm familiar with the term only from Ozu's films, but don't know much about japanese literature

I can't really give you examples because I would have to say almost everything. It would be far harder to give examples of things that don't fulfill it. For someone unfamiliar with India and the far east it can be hard to understand how important the concept of impermanence is but it really is the foundation of everything.

how is it difficult to give a couple examples of literature that exemplify this line of thought? I can give you cinematic examples easy enough. What gives?

It's almost like asking can you give an example of a human. How do you respond to that. Every single person I mention is going to be en example. You are almost asking can you give an example of things written in words that comes from the east. If you really want an example literally everything by Basho. Or everything written by Kawabata. I really do mean everything. Everything that happens that they write about is a product of it.

not him but you sound like an incredibly pretentious weeb.

read 'in praise of shadows' by Tanizaki

>Mention India
>Weeb
Being aware of the very basic divergence between in mindset from the west and the east, which is extremely well known and fundamental does not make me a weeb. It makes me a person who know something about the east. I never said that it was good or better than what we have in the west, only that it is a thing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokohama_Kaidashi_Kikō

This is a manga, therefore making it a quicker read. Go through about 15 chapters and you should get a good understanding of mono no aware.

you refused to give him examples that emphasize the schism in thought because you somehow think it sacrosanct. Everybody who has read more than 3 books has been exposed to the schism between noumenal concrete existential thought in the west and the fluctuating impermanence and negative edge of eastern thought. It is not hard to give an example that highlights this, as I did. You however likely lack knowledge of actual eastern literature and have only seen a few animes and watched a few wikipedia articles, so you were unable to supply him with the quintessential academic exemplar of eastern japanese thought, In Praise of Shadows

I thought Spring Snow was passably good, but I look for imagery as an element. So, OP probably should dismiss my opinion.

The Sailor who Fell from Grace from the Sea read like an homage to Maupassant. I thought that it might have filled a missing foundation in Japanese literature, but I'm no expert on that.

I think the Temple of the Golden Pavilion all all the best of his skill with imagery and inevitable fate. I read in 1972, so I'm not going to be able to answer specific questions about it. When I read it, I was aware of Mishima's failed coup and suicide. I thought that the protagonist's rebellious nature mirrored that of the author.

I haven't read Maupassant but have been interested in checking him out for quite a while, and I have read Sailor who fell from grace with the sea. What elements from Sailor are shared in Maupassant?

>you refused to give him examples that emphasize the schism in thought because you somehow think it sacrosanct
Please don't put words into my mouth. That was never implied and to infer that from what I said is simply wrong.

I did give examples however. I said everything by Basho or by Kawabata. I could have said the entire religion of Buddhism, or major parts of Hinduism, or of Taoism.

>you were unable to supply him with the quintessential academic exemplar
He never asked for this. This was a civil discussion before you came along with your needlessly aggressive character assassination. He never asked anywhere for an academic example. Don't accuse me for failing to do something that was never asked for and never required.

> Everybody who has read more than 3 books has been exposed to the schism between noumenal concrete existential thought in the west and the fluctuating impermanence and negative edge of eastern thought.
Why are we arguing? You clearly agree with me.

>It is not hard to give an example that highlights this, as I did.
Again I redirect you to actually read my post before attacking me.

Please keep this conversation civil. Lit has become extremely toxic these last couple of years. There was nothing aggressive in what I said and I said nothing which would warrant such angry response. What you said could have easily been said in a way which wasn't hate filled.

The denouement reflects the *natural* outcome. Heroic reversal of fate never happens. God's moral judgment is never known. Happy endings are not guaranteed when the protagonist steps into the maelstrom.

I had nine volumes of Maupassant short stories to read when I was in grade school. I went from Aesop fables to depressing shit and teachers detected the change in my worldview. The one Maupassant story I remember best from when I was 10 (I'm 67 now):

eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/PiecStri.shtml

>eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/PiecStri.shtml
Is maupassant traditionally considered young people's literature, or are you just based?

thanks for the response, you should post here more!

Hmm. In 1960 Grand Rapids, MI, prayer was still said in public schools (although not mine). Annually, we assembled before the holiday break to view the same three films about the birth of Christ, Rudolph the Red stop animation, and something else. Morally justifiable outcomes in reading lessons were important, although religious intervention had been removed from assigned books by the time I was in grade school—the overtly Christian-themed films notwithstanding. Anything my Maupassant would fail to meet the recommended kid literature standards back then and I think even now. I never directly revealed that I sat for hours in the basement reading the collection. I wonder about an oral report to the class in which I mention a woman "with her robe open as wide as the church doors" placing her lover's hand between her breasts and asking him if he can ignore how hard her heart beats for him? (I don't remember the title for that one.) There was another story of spousal homicide, pitting love against duty, but it is a Leave it to Beaver world outside.

Ha, I just remember the third film: Another stop animation. The Night before Christmas.

You seem to have lead a full life of reading. Who are your favorite authors?

[Not ordered list] Thomas Hardy, Haruki Murakami, Dickens, Steve (not Steven) Erickson, Tim Dorsey, Woody Allen.

It's past my bedtime. I'll say one more thing and it's lights out: I read one book from an author with uneven output that had lasting impact. _A Trip to the Stars_ by Nicolas Christopher. I gone until I need to browse Veeky Forums for recommendations. oo

gtfo with your weeb picture books

I've read most of Mishima's works and wrote about him for coursework. I chose Sailor because it has such a rich collection of allegorical readings (it's all binaries: masculine vs. feminine, Japanese-ness vs. Western 'degeneracy') but after reading his novels I have to conclude that The Temple of the Golden Pavilion is the best. It's absolutely saturated with philosophical and psychological dilemmas. It's a masterpiece. With Spring Snow you just have to wait, the narrative becomes much more interesting as you go on and, at the risk of sounding like Buzzfeed, the ending will shock you. Runaway Horses (which follows it in the Sea of Fertility tetralogy) is one of Mishima's best novels. If 'description for the sake of description' isn't your thing, then you'll like The Temple of the Golden Pavilion and Runaway Horses much more than Spring Snow.

Thanks a lot for your opinions guys, they really helped shed light on the topic.

I'll postpone reading Spring Snow for a while, and take a look at the Sailor who Fell from Grace from the Sea.

I have been trying to get more into descriptive literature hoping it would grow on me, but I suppose this is too big of a leap. I hope Sailor would be a good stepping stone towards it and towards the Eastern literature as a whole.

If I finish Sailor reasonably soon, I'll update on the thread

It's easy to give examples. It's hard to give a rigorous definition in both cases.

The flower arrangement scenes in Temple of the Golden Pavilion, hell, most of the book.

Pretty much all of the Sea of Fertility books consists of description.
I'll give you the long and short of it:
Spring Snow: Look at how beautiful and unique Japan and Japanese culture
Runaway Horses: Long meandering descriptions about Japanese nationalism
The Temple of Dawn: Long and meandering descriptions about religion, spirituality and reincarnation.
Didn't read the last book.
Just read Sailor.

Consider Temple of the Golden Pavilion too. I read it last year and liked it. I read Sailor in high school so I'm a little rusty on it.