Where do I start with modern Catholics and neo-Thomists?

top fuckin kek, I'm sorry user I rused you. his name is only Garrigou-Lagrange. I added 'Grougaloragran' because it's the name of a character from a French cartoon
lmao

If you do Aquinas you must read Theologia Mystica

He is still obscure as far as torrents go, I only found Life Everlasting and the Immensity of the Soul on bookzz.
This is the only place where I see him mentioned. It's probably okay because I've only read 500 or so pages of Aquinas so he won't be on the list very soon. I'm working on reading all of MacIntyre post communist writings.

>Hans Urs von Balthasar
why the reeee?

I don't think you get that Catholicism really does believe in both leader as servant (Christ washing the feet of lowly prostitutes with his tears and hair and so on) and also wants to take over the world. Like the crusades were all about trying to get all the continents.

>Grougaloragran
how is he that

Modernism
What are you talking about, that's not how the event went?
Am I being memed?

At the tip, then forwards till you can lick the balls.

i literally just put his name on amazon and got a bunch of books he wrote that are commentary on the summa, and no do not put Grougaloragran only put Garrigou-Lagrange

>Frank Sheed

I can't find any of his books online, especially Theology for Beginners. Anyone have it?

I thought Wakfu was like a video game.

I jerked off to Wakfu once.

Alasdair MacIntyre
Edward Feser's blog

Hans Milch

prostitutes are good people though, muslim migrants are not.

Prostitutes, unlike Muslims, can in fact be Catholics and, unlike Muslims, can participate in the rites of the Eucharist. Francis washing feet of Muslims during mass is sacrilege.
In other news, I just bought the new Burke and an edition of Thoughts by Edith Stein.

Easy, with the, comma, abuse. No prostitutes can't be Catholic, at least not in sense of being in communion with the church and able to partake in the Eucharist. In order to take the Eucharist you need to be free from sins and in order to get there you need to go to confession and in order to confess you need to be repentant. You can't be repentant if you're currently a prostitute. You can be a former prostitute and be a Catholic but you can't be an unrepentant sinner.

I know, but they can come to a mass.
Muslims, at least according to the Church fathers and the first Christians, can't.
Mass isn't a tool of evangelization for pagans and infidels.
Francis is establishing a new rule to contradict what you are saying, as mortal sin is not an objective fact for him, it's a "life is not black and white" situation where conscience is more important than objective moral law.
Washing of feet was an event between Christ and his apostles, not Christ and a couple of Romans and a few mystery religion pagans.
I have a comma fetish.

For important Catholic writers, I forgot to mention Hilaire Belloc, he's really great. I prefer him to Chesterton.

>as mortal sin is not an objective fact for him, it's a "life is not black and white" situation where conscience is more important than objective moral law.

Isn't that what Jesus said to the pharisees when they confronted for healing on the Sabbath? That the spirit of the law and the interior disposition of the sinner is more important than the actually literal words of the law? I don't know where you get this idea that mass isn't a form or has nothing to do with evangelization but you're mistaken. The doors aren't locked and we're encouraged to invite everyone.

Also you don't have to hit enter after every sentence.

No, I'd say it's more when he said that anyone who divorces and marries is an adulter and when Paul said that anyone who takes communion in the state of mortal sin is damming himself to Hell. We aren't talking trivial Jewish rabbinical laws, we are talking 2000 years of doctrine and scripture here, explicitly confirmed by John Paul II in Veritas Splendor.
I get the idea that mass wasn't a form of evangelization from the practices of the early church, where those who wished to join could not participate for a certain time. This has obviously changed, but it was what they did.
I hit enter because I'm on my phone and for me it looks arranged better like this, not sure how awful it'd be on the desktop.

Thank you based Cardinal.

t. unironic protestant

Pic related is a good place to start with Aquinas.

>You can't be repentant if you're currently a prostitute.
That's not true.

Not who you're replying to, but what makes you say that? How can one be repentant about something they refuse to stop doing? If one is truly repentant, then one seeks to abandon their sinful ways are they not?

I meant
> *do they not

Not everyone can stop doing it, and the Vatican takes that into account. So for example people who become prostitutes because of destitution or blackmail should not necessarily be blamed. Literally worse to look at pornography.

why is aquinas so popular on Veeky Forums?

He was kind of smart

Aquinas, among others listed ITT, is popular among people trying to fight the tide of new atheism rising up in the west. Mainly due to his arguments for God.

You don't fight a tide that is going back out to sea. I have a great deal of respect for the atheist members of the philosophical establishment of the 1930s-40s, just as I do for the Church Fathers, but neither the Protestant fundamentalists who are unable to articulate either rational or existentialist reasons for belief nor the gang of positivist philistines who called themselves the New Atheists have any intellectual merit. If Dawkins maintains his current dismissive attitude towards all philosophy, he will end up gradually undermining the ontological foundations of his own worldview. All they had going for them was being provocative, so after that finally wore off they've been gradually declining.

you don't

He provides the strongest, most complete philosophical systems ever constructed by man.
t. Canon law

>He provides the strongest, most complete philosophical systems ever constructed by man.

Too bad it was completely destroyed

you meme with no purpose, you are a husk of a man.

Because he's a true patrician & because a lot of people who visit Veeky Forums are Catholic.

t. das Man

bump

I have half of Hannukah Shekels's Jewish Adventures: The Final Solution left before I chose my next read.
A) God or Nothing by Based Cardinal
B) Metaphysics to finally start working on Aquinas metaphysics.

"Traditional" Catholicism is the latest edgy meme among teens and bitter young adults.

And it's only going to get bigger.

Chesterton is a better writer but Belloc was better educated and more precise. His histories like Europe and the Faith are better apologetics than Chesterton's stuff in my opinion

Not one writer mentioned in this thread who lived after the Second Vatican Council qualifies as a traditionalist, at least not the LARP meme-tier kind of trad (SSPX and sedevactantists).

How is SSPX larper, please? Now out of the writers mentioned, Sarah and Burke are clearly traditionalist, the long name French Dominican was the intellectual vanguard against new theology, Fulton Sheen qualifies as one too, MacIntyre isn't a theologian, but his axioms force traditionalism as they require, from a Catholic, total and absolute law like obedience to God, Benedict XVI was working towards the restoration of the tridentine mass and just about everything he was trying to do is being dismantled right now.
Well Chesterton is a poet in his soul and his non fiction will function like Nietzsche, but Christian, for people. You'll love it or hate it.

Traditionalist Catholicism as an edgy meme for teenagers on /pol/ and TC as a legitimate thing (Benedict XVI, Ed Feser, neo-schloastics, etc.) are different, and I associate the SSPX/sedes with the former (I usually agree with the later).

American SSPX members are larpers because they want the official position of the Catholic Church to be that any country with any Catholic citizens (such as the US) should make the Catholic Church the State Church and suppress other religions. This is the core of their dispute with the Vatican, not the Latin Mass. If the SSPX got their way, Catholics would become an absolutely hated group in the US, even among conservatives. Saying youre a Catholic would be like saying youre in the Klan or something to an average person. There's no acknowledgment of the real-world political situation

That's actually the official Thomist position. I read about it both from Feser and MacIntyre. Or at least as far as there being very little sense in having freedom of religion in the contemporary sense as a part of the positive law.
The core of the dispute was ordination of bishops without authority to do so, hence the iffy situation with the canon law and strange position within the Church. That said, I'm not an American and Latin mass is something which we didn't have here until 2 years ago and only in one city, next Sunday will be my fish latin mass, although not first mass in Latin.

>There's no acknowledgment of the real-world political situation
Reminds me of Christ.

I went to National Catholic Register to see what the leftists had to say about Burke being essentially replaced and the comment section was all about being nice to the political opponents, but unlike the usual comment sections, be it here or other sites, any refference to scripture, magisterium or tradition was missing.
Article in question ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-burke-reportedly-confirms-vatican-ouster

It seems like Francis wants to save the church by doing away with the church in a contest vying for progressive approval.

I don't think he'll get people back to the church by removing whatever it has to offer though.

It's a very interesting thing, the more conservative a diocese, the more callings there are and the more liberal the less. Belgium is a very interesting example of this, duruing a short period of a conservative bishop there there were 50 young men with callings preparing for priesthood. As soon as a liberal bishop took over it went back to 5-6 as he essentially chased these out. Of course, this is assuming the story is true. We shall see if this is what will keep happening, as it is something I certainly observe. By banalising mercy, the Church will be empty, because it will be no different than any other NGO interested in peace and fighting poverty.
Here is the link lifesitenews.com/opinion/brussels-archbishop-deals-potentially-fatal-blow-to-an-uprising-of-vocation
Read a few more comments, the hate they have for Benedict XVI is seething.

Jesus told the Jews not to rebel against the Romans. Jews ignore Jesus and get rekt.

I would agree with Italy or Poland having the RC become the established church. US is a different scenario as it is historically protestant and only 25% Catholic today. The First Amendment as read by Clarence Thomas (a conservative Catholic US Supreme Court judge) is the best you're ever going to get. Catholic established church>religious liberty (as in US)>anti-clericalism (France)>state Atheism.

Aquinas thought Jews should be tolerated if they didn't cause trouble, but Christian heretics should be burned at the stake. The thing is, modern protestants are different than medieval heretics because they aren't actively protesting the Church, one can be from a family that was Protestant for 400 years. So, they are closer to the Jews of Aqunias' time, and should be tolerated if they don't cause trouble.

They want to go the way of US mainline protestants and the Church of England. Im not sure if more conservative diocese means higher mass attendance, as many trads claim, but it clearly leads to more vocations. Lincoln, Nebraska (only US diocese without alter girls and home to FSSP's seminary) gets more vocations than the Archdiocese of New York

Well I'm unsure which method he preferred, he was certainly not against the death penalty for heretics (this isn't just professing a heresy, it's preaching it, the danger came because of the risk for other human souls).

>Bishop Robert Barron
Man, this guys talks are comfy af. I agree though, he is entry-level. More of a populariser than anything else.

His book isn't half as bad as I expected. It covers a lot of interesting topics. His views on hell are a bit hererorthodox, but nothing too bad.

catholic fag weddings when?

As soon as the Church recognizes the difference between particular case and general rule, as Francis put it.

Honestly I'm just starting to think that a Jesuit as Pope is a bad idea. They're great for evangelizing but they do tend to play fast and loose with doctrine. If we have to have another Pope from an order I'd rather it be a Dominican.

Pretty sure that this depends on the country. Here, Jesuits stand for absolute orthodoxy, when cardinal Burke visited and was essentially ostracized by the arch bishop and was barely able to get the permission to hold a mass (which is a shame, because it was the most beautiful sermon I ever heard), the Jesuits stood up for him. This was even before the dubia went public. From what I gathered, the Jesuits are unorthodox in South and North America and became such only after the second Vatican council.

Jacques Maritain- The existent.

Honestly I think Francis has committed a major fuckup by not answering the dubia. His refusal of clarity on the questions surrounding AL are just going to wind up turning even more of the college of cardinals against him, and that will mean that when he dies they'll make a concerted effort to choose someone likely to reverse AL's teachings.

It's ridiculous that he can't even give a straight answer one way or the other. I generally don't have a problem with him but this is bugging me a lot.

He's never been clear on anything, I can't say I like anything about him, from praising Luther and claiming how he put the bible back into focus, to the whole AL fiasco and contradicting the magusterium with it in one of his letters, the liturgical fuckups, giving communion to protestants, eating up a speech that Soros literally funded (wikileaks is the source for this) in front of the Congress, making Cupich a cardinal... His papacy is the antithesis of Benedict.
The dubia is just a culmination of what he has been pushing thus far.

Yeah, he's been a bit of a mess, but this is a different sort of fuckup. Not answering the dubia is a tactical, maybe even a strategic error on his part. Even cardinals that support him are liable to take it as an affront. And it IS an affront. If AL is so clear the questions should be answered easily.

Well it is clear in the obvious contradiction of both scripture and doctrine. It's why he cannot plainly say that he really meant what he wrote as he would judge himself a heretic.
It would of course be best if he backed down and continued the work of the previous two popes, but that's probably not going to happen.
I've read that Benedict was silent because he fears a schism.

>Modernism
Not quite tho. He can't be that avant if Ratzinger is up for him.

Jesuits aren't really supposed to become bishops according to their internal rules. Dominicans don't have such a rule and we've had a few OP popes over the years (notably St. Pius V)

Watching Catholocucks discuss their memes is like watching a bunch of fedoras talk Tolkien lore desu.

Absolutely silly LARPing.

What isn't LARPing in your view? Is LARPing a spook?

To start with it should include not adopting some old belief system that you find charming and insincerely pretending to believe in it for aesthetic value.

'Traditional Catholics' are no different from Neopagans in that aspect.

SSPX is way different from sedevacantism. The latter is heresy

My Grandma had five kids by the time traditional catholicism stopped being a thing, its not an old belief system in the way neopaganism is. Anybody who isn't a modern liberal is someone with false consciousness in your view--pretty closed minded.

>Anybody who isn't a modern liberal is someone with false consciousness in your view--pretty closed minded.
It isn't, I just think people who frequent this board embracing traditional catholicism are people with a shitload of bad faith.

Mark my words, Benedict is going to outlive Francis and play a key role in healing the Church. Call it a prophecy. I assumed that when Benedict retired due to ill health, he was destined to die any day. But he's just kept living, while Francis has told people he feels he doesn't have much time left.

Benedict will survive Francis, and the Church will be better for it.

So obscure
Much hipster

If you believe something just for aesthetic value, do you really believe it?

No.

Based on what? Their love for reading?
What would be the role of Benedict in the Church officially when Francis dies? We have a very, very uncommon situation.
How did Francis become a cardinal then?

>Based on what? Their love for reading?
Their love of Veeky Forums culture.

Veeky Forums is basically the only place I know where I can discuss literature.
But it is true, I love memes

Benedict a shit. Stop getting bothered about a Jesuit Pope uniting everyone. I can only assume we have a tinfoil twat here who thinks this is the end of the world.

What are your thoughts on Muslim prostitutes?

Fine with me as long as they aren't migrants.

Who exactly is he uniting if Benedict said that a schism is very, very possible?

Christianity.

A schism with Francis would be like the Vatican II schism, practically unnoticeable. Benedict is just sore because people liked him less and he would've caused a worse schism or even mass conversion across the board.

Kinda strange every modernist potential mass conversion just ends up as a drop in callings and mass attendance while whatever Benedict did was the opposite.

>All this preconciliar Catholic thought
Accept it, Trento fags, you're in it for the philosophy, not for the Gospel

If I was I'd be a neoplatonist.

The philosophy leads to a deeper love of the Gospel. Reason and Faith go hand in hand and point the way to Christ.

>Where do I start with modern Catholics
>f3
>no Alvin Plantinga

Wew.