What is ideology

But its an ideology itself

>bait
I genuienly dont understand the concept and Im seeking clarification. I dont see how its baity

Isnt every world view motivated by a particular idea? The idea of viewing the world without an idea is still viewing the world with a particular idea.

How are values and morals not informed by ideology? I feel its important to have morals and values, yet I dont see how they cant be based on ideology

Your question sounds biased because it identifies health as a good that's exclusive to non-ideological worldviews, which makes no sense to me.
Also, if I follow what you are suggesting, I understand that health is the ideology and a non-ideological worldview a value.

>Your question sounds biased because it identifies health as a good that's exclusive to non-ideological worldviews, which makes no sense to me.
I thought ideological world views were implictly bad, are they not?

>Also, if I follow what you are suggesting, I understand that health is the ideology and a non-ideological worldview a value
I dont know. Im wondering the difference between ideologies and values

>I thought ideological world views were implictly bad, are they not?
Unavoiable. Goddamnit read the post in the link

>I thought ideological world views were implictly bad, are they not?
Viewing the world through the prism of a single Idea sure sounds idiotic, but to say it is implicitly bad also is meaningless or, as you might say, pure ideology.

Things you don't know you know

Ideology is believing that Trump is bad for minorities and you must prevent him from becoming the president

Values are not going out of your way to do that by vote rigging, intimidating non-racist trump supporters, firebombing gop offices, etc.

>How does one escape ideology?

My gott, pure ideology

Purchasing all three volumes of Capital at Barnes & Noble is pretty idealogical, but I did it anyway.

don't all ideologies claim that they are not ideologies, but the truth?

But what if an ideology isn't a bad thing?

What if one of them is actually right?

it's not that they tell straight out lies that people fall for. rather, they present truths that people sympthasize with, but which can lead to very unfavorable circumstances.

>My gott
WHAT THE HECK! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

It's an idea that's stuck up your butt.

>firebombing

Nice buzzword. Go back to writing fabricated news so you can make money off the ad space.

Nobody posted the Marxist definition of ideology yet? It's supposedly the worldview put forth by the ruling class in order to further its interests. So a classless society, I guess, would have no such thing.

That's why Marxists say Marxism is a social science that can be used to examine and criticize ideology, but itself is not ideology.

But Marxist definition isn't the only definition of ideology. The term has been used various ways since the French Revolution, and many times is used just like "worldview".

Ideology is viewing the world in any other way than what it is.

If you believe that Capitalism is the "best system so far" for example (or something like that), you will view the world through tinted classes and accordingly construct (or adopt) an ideology that conforms to this belief/faith.

Marxism, however, viewed by its author and acolytes as some sort of 'objective science', therefore cannot be 'ideology'.

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I think there are much more interesting questions you could be asking about this sort of thing.

Marxism is a 19th century theory. I agree with Foucault when he says that Marxism outside of the 19th century is like a fish out of water. This is part of the reason why I'm so sceptical nowadays. If we agree, for example, that 'State Capitalism' is shit/etc (mainly because it blows any idea of a 'Free Market' out of the water), what are the alternatives? A lot of people point back to Marxism, which to me seems like a regression. There's no going backwards, only forward - and those who try to 'save' Marxism by 'updating' it for a Post-Industrial world, strike me as being just as regressive as the 'Old-School' Marxists.

What I'd like to see is a new theory, a new alternative. A theory of tomorrow. I want a 'revolution' insofar as I want to see a completely new paradigm for Leftist politics/theories.

Ideology is most commonly explained as a set of values or value system you must adopt in order to make sense of something. So common examples might be mercantilist (the positive version of nationalist. While they share similar/the same ideologies, normative systems always adopt a positive system, but you don't need a normative system for an ideology), liberal or Marxist. So in order for a Marxist analysis to be considered valid you have to accept material dialectics and alienation and so forth. They don't HAVE to be named though, something can still be ideology in this very common sense so long as they satisfy the above statement. Also note that the values themselves are just assumed, they're like that starting point for any analysis.

Zizek's simplest explanation for what he considers ideology is the unknown knowns thing, that there are things that we don't know we know. That's the sort of ideology he talks about, values that we accept to make sense of the world but we are not even aware that we've done it.

It's essentially saying "you're wrong I'm right".

Everything that isn't marxism is an ideology for marxists.

This.

Ideology is not a world view or an opinion, that's what you are missing.

An opinion or world view, left or right, pro or against something, is part of what you say you defend, it's something you can get behind and ask people to vote for it and support it in some way. Whether they are "healthy" or not is debatable, in fact, it is the whole point of debating ideas.

Ideology, on the other hand, is something that works through you (or some structure), but that you don't acknowledge it, because you are placed in a point where you don't have the means to acknowledge it. It may go along with your opinion or even contradict it, but it is well functioning in itself.

For example, when you buy a product from a "green company" that sells you an ecological idea, your idea of ecology is your opinion, it is what you think, what you defend, there is nothing wrong with it. The ideology however, lies in thinking that this company has any interest or means to "saving the planet" and so on, or that you are redeemed of the guilt you once felt about the environment because you've done your part as a consumer.

All of this logic is implicit in what you're doing, that's ideology. Your world view is your world view. It is, of course, to some degree, formed and transformed by ideology, but that's something you cannot escape.

The reason people think there is such an opposition as "bad ideology" vs "healthy world view" is that, if your world view does not take into account the ideology around you, it will reproduce it. Ideology is all around and will be around as long as there is a limit to our knowledge of our place. We can only form our opinions and world views based on what we see, on tv, newspapers, on the people we meet in the street, places we go, websites we visit, etc.

While ideology is well present in the left in various ways, there is difference between, say, a marxist worldview and others. One attempts to read all the elements of our society and form some project about it, you'd pay attention to each link of the chain and what you form is a worldview based on it (you can debate them as you like, not the point). But our everyday living, the majority of the middle class, working and consuming, is not thinking about the processes in which it is involved, so all they do is ideological. Being a nazi can be a worldview, based on some values, but it is also based on ideology which is "look how tall these buildings are, let's have classical values of beauty, the jews caused all the trouble, etc", things which are, if you look at it, quite empty personal appeals, as much as "save the planet" is when it is stamped on a store's display.

The whole thing is ideological, our opinion is just what comes out when we say something, but it does not correspond to the real world value in what we think and do. To consider ideology is already a great step, not to escape it, which is impossible, but in forming worldviews that are more considerate of these forces around us.

the form and pattern of discourse as determined by the network of power relations between individuals and institutions

Ideology is the representation of the subject's Imaginary relationship to his or her Real conditions of experience

Ideology is simply a collection of ideas, associations, symbols, norms and so on and so on.

>Can you guys explain ideology to me?
The first thing you should know is that in Marxist and Critical Theory the word ideology does not refer to a personal worldview.

Ideologie ≠ Weltanschauung.

For once wikipedia does something right when speaking of a "comprehensive normative vision that is followed by people, governments, or other groups that is considered the correct way by the majority of the population."

Ideology is what the powerful wants to to do, consciously and unconsciously. Ideology is the closest thing real life offers to the mind control you can see in fiction, operating on a mass scale using all available media, from oral tradition to the internet.

This is completely different from Stirner's spook because Max Stirner writes first and foremost about Max Stirner and Max Stirner's environment. He takes a first person phenomenological approach rather than an account of power relations, he doesn't provide a description for who makes the spooks and why, he limits himself to tell you why he doesn't obey.

is he just talking about spooks?

*what the powerful want you to do

>Ideology is what the powerful wants to to do, consciously and unconsciously. Ideology is the closest thing real life offers to the mind control you can see in fiction, operating on a mass scale using all available media, from oral tradition to the internet.
How is that different from the past? Even in hunter-gatherer societies social norms come from high prestige individuals on top of the hierarchy.

Hence my
>from oral tradition

Traditionalist conservatism isn't

>healthy world view

ideology

>How does one escape ideology?

Impossible.

>healthy
pure ideology

Ah I see, to quick to judge. Sorry there.

values is what you believe. ideology is what shapes your values because it's the values of the people that came before you

youtube.com/watch?v=xvj0rxhjpWA

>MUH RUSSIANS HAKED ELECTIONS :((((
Oh that's totally not fake news but democrats getting caught doing unethical things is?

FUCK DEMOCRATS AND FUCK LEFTISTS.

yeah, sure

>criticizes Marxism
>subscribes to teleological worldview, which is itself the weakest aspect of Marxism

not even once hombre. RIP Fidel.

>muh faek news
For a supposedly "intellectual" board, we have a lot of brainwashed libtards here. Probably women and academics.

youtube.com/watch?v=KzGjEkp772s

Ideology is a meme, an infectious idea. A virus of the mind

The new alternative is fascism.

Are you asking about Zizek's perception of Ideology? In Sublime Object of Ideology he criticizes Marx's German Ideology. He says that ideology is not this thing that puts us in a state of false consciousness that prevents us from seeing things the way they truly are. Instead, he believes that ideology is a spontaneous phenomenon. He thinks it is unconscious and arises when you try to justify or behave in a manner that supports illusory entities.

This is why he goes on and on about the whole no one believes in santa but no one has to believe for belief to function. Humans serve some false sense of security in rigid social law.

Find terry eagletons ideology in pdf online and read the first thirty pages or so

Imagine being Slavoj Zizek at the critical moment of understanding ideology. "My gott! Pure ideology!" It appeared to him. He was now face to face with a new opponent, his now lifelong enemy. He tried to escape its clutches but ideology bent him over and forced him to accept it. "Ohhh! Ish so clear... so vivid!" Nervously wiping his brow he fought back. With a giant sniff all pure ideology was swept away into his nostrils. "My gott... it's all over." Ideology was put back to its birthplace, the confines of man. Zizek was paraded in the streets, all were chanting his name. No longer did the imaginary rule over the people. He finally was at peace. But it all came to a halt when he awoke. Zizek looked around and next to him was a trashcan with its contents spilled across his stomach. "My gott" he sighed, "pure ideology". A single tear came down his face.

ITT: many dummies

Ideology is when you funnel life in some way so as to make it tangible. Thoughts, opinions, judgments, arguments, labelings, etc. Zen is the opposite.

It definitely is

It's all inspired by marxism which in of itself is an ideology

Relevant: "Jost, Ledgerwood, & Hardin Shared reality, system justification and the relational basis of ideological beliefs"

is that a serious post?

i honestly cant tell

it make sense i guess

>let's remove all ideology!!!1!
>you can just simply foreclose something from the symbolic and it magically won't re-emerge in the real !!1!

>and so on

Reject dogma and you're fine.

Holy...want more... and so on.

Denying ideology is some critical-theory bullshit that noone should take seriously.

what a shit thread holy f

Zizeks point from what I can tell is if you can talk about something then it's untrue. If it’s true then you can’t talk about it or can’t talk about it coherently anyways. The only things that are true are the things that resist actually being named i.e. the worst things. Some things simply cannot come into language. You can't really escape this.

We are not living in a "post-industrial" world, the world is more industrialized than it has ever been and is becoming more so everyday. Most of this development is occurring in places you obviously have no interest in. Capitalist profitability dynamics is still the most revolutionary force destroying and inventing everything. The proletariat is still the political actor who will determine the future since they actually are producing it, so write it off at your own risk.
If you can come up with a "paradigm" that can place the real global developments which are unfolding into some sort of historical context go for it but if you go the Foucault route you might just become yet another victim of post-modernism and blind to what's really going on

>We are not living in a "post-industrial" world, the world is more industrialized than it has ever been and is becoming more so everyday.
There's another aspect to post-industrialization, and that's with the rise of unskilled service jobs and abstract production such as IP.

Ideology is what perpetuates the dominant modes of production.

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