Politicans keep forcing everyone to learn math and science in highschool

>Politicans keep forcing everyone to learn math and science in highschool
>Not everyone needs to know math and science to do their job
>Everyone needs a highschool diploma to do their job
>As a result math and science get dumbed down to the point where someone who is not interested in math/sci can still pass the classes without studying
>Math/Sci people complain about how bad the education system is
>Math/Sci people want to fix the problem by forcing more sci/math into school
Really makes you think.

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It is to gain an appreciation for how hard it is...
ya know?
;-;

>complain about having to learn math and science
>complain it's too easy

Its hard because its hard to force yourself to remember things you have no practical use for.

If I locked you in a room every day for an hour with a sheet of paper covered in random letters and numbers, and told you to memorize them and recite them back to me on the test it would be pretty hard.

>>Not everyone needs to know math and science to do their job
They do need them to function in life. Most jobs WILL require you to do use percentage, fractions, and many other basic math, as well as basic geometry.

The rest (physics/chemistry/...) is just so that people aren't complete retards about the world outside them and know a tiny bit how it works.
Without that, it would be easier to manipulate them and feed them lies.

education != job preparation
they teach a wide variety of things in grade school so you're not an ingnoramous going into life

>percentage, fractions, and many other basic math
You learn that in elementary school.

Farmers, Cashiers, handymen, Garbage collectors, salesmen,Janitors, even the biological sciences never need to use imaginary numbers, squared roots or use the quadratic formula.

>education != job preparation
>is just so that people aren't complete retards about the world outside them and know a tiny bit how it works.

Great, so we take kids, pay to educate them about useless scientific tidbits they don't care about for 12 years, and then send them out into the world with no skills that will actually help them earn a living.

But at least they are not ignoramuses because they know mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.

>hurr durr gotta know fractions in everyday life
No, dumbass, that's not why math is important. We don't teach retards math and science because "b-b-but you need to know the quadratic formula in everyday life!" We teach them this shit because it more importantly teaches them goddamn critical thinking and basic pattern recognition (i.e., how to seem like you're not completely retarded,) something most retards refuse to learn in their life.

That's about it. Wipe your own ass.

Everyone needs to know algebra and some trigonometry.

>Without that, it would be easier to manipulate them and feed them lies.
But it is still easy to do that. The majority don't look into details when some """scientist"""" says ______ does ______, they just take it at face value or they don't. All the education system does is pre-condition them to think the system has all the answers, or doesn't (if they learn to mistrust it early enough). It is a system for indoctrination. Every nation/state has it's own spin on education for the purpose of creating easy to manage citizens.

Why know math when you can learn about how people got oppressed and you should feel bad about it?

Why not both?

>We teach them this shit because it more importantly teaches them goddamn critical thinking and basic pattern recognition

But teaching everyone things like the quadratic formula to see if they are capable of or try to teach them "pattern recognition" is retarded. The point OP was trying to make is that the people who don't see the utility in that kind of material, won't be putting any effort in learning it, so it just becomes a pointless ego boost for the "intelectuals" that value solving clever problems/puzzles.

>what's that user? You can't figure it out? It's so simple though, are you stupid?

Basically, if a teenager is already fullfilling their need to feel important through athletics or by applying a practical skill (mechanics, construction, arts, etc), they will feel less compeled to force themselves to prove they are "oh so smart" by figuring out these seemingly pointless math problems. Whereas, the teen who has nothing else going for him/her, will feel like they need to solve the problem to retain their value/make them feel important, because if they don't, then what do they have going for themselves? The problem now though is teens are being fullfilled through entertainment such as video games. So they really are going to be fucked later in life.

Because I dont care that people got oppressed and I should feel bad for them
I care about mathematics

Doesn't matter if you care about it. General education is supposed to teach you a basic understanding of the world from all topics. Study maths in college.

The only problem with that is that learning about oppression and who was oppressed, is subject to interpretation. History changes with time because our interpretations of the facts change and sometimes new facts come to light. So should we really be teaching influential youth these pointless ideas if they could easily change in the future?

>School is suppose to teach you how the world works
>Study maths in college
What did he mean by this?

You're right. We shouldn't teach anything subjective. Science and math only! I'm not even joking.

Everything changes over time, even science. All you can do is teach kids our current understanding of the past and its significance.

I never said to not teach math in general education.

>I never said to not teach math in general education
You implied it with your former post

Nah not really imo. Simple misunderstanding tho. Basic math, algebra, geometry, all very important for general education.

>We teach them this shit because it more importantly teaches them goddamn critical thinking and basic pattern recognition
This is one of the biggest lies in education.
Forcing someone to just memorize [math] x = [-b ± √(b2 - 4ac)]/2a [/math] does not teach critical thinking, it teaches memorization. I don't know why it works. I just know if I plug numbers into it, I get the right answer, and that's all the tests are.

You get a bunch of linear equations, you plug them into the formula, you get an A. or you don't remember the formula because this shit won't pay my bills, and you get a D for just writing things on the paper.

Sure it teaches you basic pattern recognition, but you could do the same by having them put different shaped blocks in different holes.

It was not until I started studying C++ that I started learning logic and critical thinking.

Yes, but I think there is room for learning about the non-subjective nature of history/current events. Like, they should be analyzing past and currrent events, given the evidence, and showing students how different interpretations can lead to different truths. Instead of trying to create this idea that they are set in stone facts.

>everything changes, even science
Ya, but non-social sciences, at least at the basic level, aren't as flexible as social sciences.

You said to "learn maths in college"
How was that misunderstood?

>Yes, but I think there is room for learning about the non-subjective nature of history/current events.
> Like, they should be analyzing past and currrent events, given the evidence, and showing students how different interpretations can lead to different truths.
See the problem with this is implementation.
You forget that most highschool social science teachers are the PE coach because he needs more work hours, people who majored in social/political science in college, general losers who can't get hired teaching anything else.

None of these people can be trusted to present the facts in a non-objective way.

Study maths in college... if you don't want to learn the other stuff alongside it.

>Study maths in college... if you don't want to learn the other stuff alongside it.
So you admit you should study "maths" in college if you dont wanna learn about the "other stuff" alongside it?

What is this "other stuff" and how is it more important to you than basic mathematical understanding especially in your day to day life?

If you want to study anything exclusively, that's what college is for. All the general education subjects are important, including math. I'm not sure what we are arguing about...

He could not comprehend what you said, so hes being autistic about semantics.

hmmmmmmmmm

We study different subjects in school to make a "foundation" of knowledge.

Most people have no fucking clue what they want to become in life. Let's assume the world will behave like you autists want, you get to choose in 7th grade you want to study geography only (basically picking a major) yet in 11th something changes and you want to become a math major/physicist /engineer/programmer/whatever. At that point in life you're basically fucked because you've bascially wasted all these years learning geography.

Even if you pick up whatever subject you will be years behind even people which studied named subject generally, among others.
>b-but it's their fault they changed their mind
Grown up people switch majors all the time. It is literally too much to ask of a 10 year old what to study for the rest of his life.

>you get to choose in 7th grade you want to study geography only (basically picking a major) yet in 11th something changes and you want to become a math major/physicist /engineer/programmer/whatever. At that point in life you're basically fucked because you've bascially wasted all these years learning geography.
Nice strawman. Except that is already exactly what they do. If you don't want to be a math/physics/bio major all those classes are a waste of time and drain on your GPA.

The argument is that they should spend less time on higher level maths and sciences and more time learning practical things like how to pay taxes, basic medical knowledge, how to cook, how to make and fix things, basic electric and welding skills. Basically home-economics and shop class like they use to have. When you graduate with 12 years of mandatory education, you should be employable for jobs besides McDonald or Janitor.

I was shit at math in high school. could not even grasp basic concepts like variables.
Went to college, took 1 remedial class, learned 4 years of highschool math in 1 semester. The same can be done for all of the science classes. I got an A in 10th grade chemistry, don't remember anything about it because it was never touched on again because we had to move on to physics.

Why does Litterally everyone's point to the fucking quadratic formula? There is so much more to a high school math education than the quadratic formula. Math teaches you how to anylize a problem and break it down into its conceptual parts.

Trig is probably the most useful thing for everyday people. Virtually all geometry problems can be solved with trig.

>Why does Litterally everyone's point to the fucking quadratic formula?
Because it's all anyone remembers from highschool math. Mostly because they spend 2+ weeks on it, drilling it over and over. Everything else gets forgotten because you never need it.

>Math teaches you how to anylize a problem and break it down into its conceptual parts.
things that never happened.
Would be nice if math class was actually like that.
My math class experience was "memorize all these methods of solving the problem, plug the questions into them and you will pass the test, don't worry about how or why any of them work"

>Trig is probably the most useful thing for everyday people. Virtually all geometry problems can be solved with trig.
I can't think of a single geometry problem I ever needed to solve in my daily life.

Nigger they literally taught all those options in my high school, and Career and Life Management was a mandatory course. You learned cooking, mechanical, computers, taxes, mortgages, outdoor education, everything, and I graduated '09. Then of course there's twats who graduated later than me who share crap on facebook about how school shouldve taught them how to balance checkbooks and change a tire, motherfucker they did, you just weren't paying attention!

Also:
>Complains about how school is just an indoctrinaion institution designed to make good little citizens
>Argues that it should be redesigned so that people focus more on 'practical' studies, thereby making them better greased cogs for the machine

Can confirm, learned how to spot weld in shop class. I'm never going to need it but it's still pretty cool.

It's not a lie, the system has just been warped.

That's why charter schools with non traditional curriculums are becoming more prominent.

Also, just because you chose to memorize stuff doesn't mean that's the intent of the class.

I think the problem is that they try to brute force knowledge into kids without explaining why it's important. Only now am I realizing the importance of the sodium potassium pump. But in highschool it was just another one of those weird things you had to learn.

Saw this essay (is that what it is?) on a thread just yesterday.

maa.org/external_archive/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

Yep, that's about it.

dem concentration gradients tho

>shop class
I never had any of this.

If I remember I had, english,history,math,science,lunch,PE, Spanish, and elective and all the electives were science or english related like "professional essay writing" or "english literature study". I took one about measuring rainfall and water tables and the effects it had on local communities. I wish I had the option for a cooking or shop class.

>Math teaches you how to anylize a problem and break it down into its conceptual parts
this doesn't happen until calc 2 when you need to solve integrals with multiple steps and apply a number of different rules in order to get the solution
and people don't take that until uni

poorfag btfo

Which goes to demonstrate the point. All we're doing is raising fence painters ad infinitum. What both sides are arguing for are much closer to each other than you'd expect...

>not using square roots or the quadratic formula

What the fuck, and good farmer graphs his shit nowadays, and he will definitely require an understanding of square roots and the quadratic formula.
Also, handymen and garbage collectors etc presumably don't want to be working those jobs all their lives, so when the opportunity to move into desk work and the likes appears, they will be pretty happy they have basic mathematics.

You seem like some butthurt brainlet of a teenager who has decided to cry about failing Grade 10 again.
Highschool maths is easy, you are not "gifted but lazy", you are just retarded. Man up and do it well or forever be labeled as a brainlet who can't do maths.

>farmers use the quadratic formula
fucking lol

>I took one about measuring rainfall and water tables and the effects it had on local communities.
lmao

i took both a shop class, and a construction class where we built a corner of a house complete with plumbing for a faucet and one electrical outlet and light fixture as well as drywall and painting it. on the outside we did roofing, but no siding other than plywood.

>good farmer graphs his shit nowadays
My grandparents ran a successful farm and they only know basic arithmetic.

>require an understanding of square roots and the quadratic formula
Do you understand the quadratic formula?
Care to explain to me what problems relating to farming would translate into quadratic equations? You would have to go out of your way to convert basic things like finance into quadratic equation.

>presumably don't want to be working those jobs all their lives
>presumably
My father was an independent electrician and he would not sit behind a desk and stare at a computer 8 hours a day for all the money in the world. He was also making a lot more then most paper pushers make.

>You seem like some butthurt brainlet of a teenager who has decided to cry about failing Grade 10 again.
Try second year uni student with honors, thinking about switching majors from compsci to math.

Highschool made me hate math and science. You are right though I sound really bitchy. I should stop shitposting and go to sleep.

>things that never happened

It's because you're a brainlet. Litterally. Its not the way your teacher drills it into your head. Those who are curious only need to be exposed to ideas to essentially teach themselves. If you lack the minuscule amount of curiosity required to think just ONE level deeper than "plug it into the equations" then god help you man.

> I can't think of a single geometry problem I've had to solve in real life.

This is your natural lack of curiosity and inability to think deeply in action. You must simply lack the ability to turn any kind of challenge you are faced with into anything other than a ballpark/trial and error problem.

>f you lack the minuscule amount of curiosity required to think just ONE level deeper than "plug it into the equations" then god help you man.
>It's not the teachers job to teach, that's the students job
I lack the financial stability to afford being able to entertain ideas about the deeper complexity of mathematics. I'm more concerned with thoughts such as "my parents are to poor to send me to college, but out combined household income disqualifies me from getting finical aid, what am I going to do?" and i'm sure I was not the only one in class more concerned about thoughts like that.


>You must simply lack the ability to turn any kind of challenge you are faced with into anything other than a ballpark/trial and error problem.
You have to be a total retard or an autist with way to much free time to want to turn a simple problem like "how much do all the groceries cost" into quadratic or fucking geometric problems.

>use graphs
>don't know how to find the x intercept(s)

Wut?

>nowadays
>grandparents

>converting a rainfall graph of the tropics into a parabola is hard

>electricians don't use basic maths

>second year
>honors

Where to start?

>nowadays
>grandparents
Oh I did not realize that in 2017 chickens refuse to lay eggs unless you solve a series of geometric equations in front of them first.

>electricians don't use basic maths
I asked him for help with homework many times and he only had a basic understanding of algebra. could not help me with anything past 11th grade algebra. Still held a maintenance job for 20 years at a medical company before going retired independent handyman.

>second year
>honors
Yes and?