'If men could see us as we really are, they would be a little amazed; but the cleverest...

'If men could see us as we really are, they would be a little amazed; but the cleverest, the acutest men are often under an illusion about women: they do not read them in a true light: they misapprehend them, both for good and evil: their good woman is a queer thing, half doll, half angel; their bad women almost a fiend. Then to hear them fall into ecstasies with each other's creations, worshipping the heroine of such a poem – novel – drama, thinking it divine! Fine and divine it may be, but often quite artificial – false as the rose in my best bonnet there. If I spoke all I think on the point; if I gave my real opinion of some first-rate female characters in first-rate works, where should I be? Dead under a cairn of avenging stones in half an hour'

'Shirley, you chatter so, I can't fasten you: be still. And after all, authors' heroines are almost as good as authoresses' heroes.'

'Not at all: women read men more truly than men read women. I'll prove that in a magazine paper some day when I've time; only it will never be inserted: it will be “declined with thanks,” and left for me at the publisher's'.


Dickens BTFO.

>TFW society thinks raping women is absolutely evil but when Dickens gets violated no one bats an eye

Misandry

>I'll prove that in a magazine paper some day

So, she literally took the Fermat's Last Theorem route to avoid giving proof. Epic. Truly epic.

The Brontes were all undersexed, hysterical virgins cloistered in a decrepit parsonage and who together produced as many quality works as they did children.

>women read men more truly than men read women

This is how I feel about reading men. I don't always get where they're coming from, which I guess is why women prefer female protagonists and men prefer male protagonists. Not a whole lot of authors seem to know how to portray the opposite gender in an honest light. Men write what they want to see in a woman, women write what they want to see in men.

Only homosexuals can truly understand the opposite gender.

>men prefer male protagonists

Jokes on you I prefer female MCs.

Is it odd that I only really like Jane Eyre over the other Charlotte Bronte novels? I liked Agnes Grey though.

Who is Helen Burns?

Wouldn't homos have a better understanding of their own gender? Unless you're referring to butch lesbians who think they are men. Or gay men who want to be girls.

>tfw academia wrote much more about Dickens' female characters over the Brontes and Austens' characters

Feminists miss the mark once again.

I'm saying your eyes see clearer when the possibility of sexual attraction is removed from the equation.

>A year after Anne's death, further editions of her novels were reprinted but Charlotte prevented re-publication of The Tenant of Wildfell Hall. In 1850, Charlotte wrote "Wildfell Hall it hardly appears to me desirable to preserve. The choice of subject in that work is a mistake, it was too little consonant with the character, tastes and ideas of the gentle, retiring inexperienced writer."

Why was Charlotte such a cunt?

You never insult a man's waifu. Never.

At least Agnes Grey was great. So funny.

>'Not at all: women read men more truly than men read women.

Ah yes, the typical female argument that being on the side of life they have been able to develop some kind of knowledge of man and his antics.


Women are losers, the more disinterested you act in them, the more they wish to discuss with thee, the more interest you give and the less they reciprocate but I am sure they will continue to feel comfort in their distant observation that they delude themselves of having.

>oh I'll prove it
>but not today, stupid boy :^)

LM Montgomery > all the Brontes and Austen

this

Literally one of us

I see Bronte's argument as more of a precursor to that which is common in modern feminism, that women are portrayed throughout literature as 2 dimensional objects rather than 3 dimensional subjects. Dickens wasn't the first or the last to do that.

No shit, you're a sharp one

>I once saw a "docudrama" about Dickens in which an actor playing Thackeray came on from time to time as a sort of talking head making mostly nasty comments about him. One of the things he said was something to the effect that Dickens was making a pretty good living selling virgins to the nation. I thought this was hilarious line and wondered if Thackeray actually said it. (I know they quarreled for a long time but eventually made it up).

Is it true? Did Thackeray really piss Dickens off?

And I really should read Vanity Fair just to judge Becky Sharp for myself. From what I've read about her, she's pretty evil-sounding.

And Vanity Fair is like the quintessential reading of female authors. Bronte was a big fan of the book.

Was this published before Great Expectations came out?

>Western girls would be offended if someone says they look like dolls
>meanwhile, the Japs are obsessed with that shit with their gothic lolita cosplays

What happened?

>You are not representing this person with regard to their gender according to this monolithic conception I have of said gender!

When did you realise that both sides of the argument are retards?

Internalised misogyny

Liberals should've used wojak as their meme mascot.

>Anthony Trollope rated Eliot and Thackeray ahead of Dickens as the great Victorian English novelists because he liked realism and though Dickens' characters were caricatures.

BTFO

Real people are caricatures. This is why I don't believe in things like character development in fiction - most people are trapped until they die in a morass of their own flaws and poor choices.

woah you mean people boasted idly long before the internet.

Trollope is a far more conventional novelist than Dickens and has his fair share of long suffering good girls (Mary in Dr Thorne) but he never gets near the embarrassing sentimentality of Dickens. So I suspect Bronte did have Dickens in mind.

>embarrassing sentimentality

There is literally nothing wrong with Dickens' sentimentality. It's like criticizing The Little Match Girl for being sentimental.

That's not Bronte's words though. That's Shirley's, her character.

And hilariously, Bronte never hit it off when she met Thackeray. She was kinda mad he introduced her to his mother as Jane Eyre.

Reminds me of Alcott being disappointed when she met Dickens up close even though she had been his fan.

ITT: All British authors are sarcastic writers.

Even Rowling still continues the tradition.

I think I read somewhere Charlotte Bronte describe Dickens' writing styles as like an old woman's, which seems an odd thing for her to say. I can't find the quote so maybe she didn't.

>But don't take it from me, take it from Charlotte Brontë – who said she intensely disliked Esther for being so consistently "the cheerful woman and nobly forgetful of self".

>Furthermore, as Charlotte Brontë (who knew a thing or two about unreliable narrators) must have understood, there's more to Esther than simple good nature. As the book progresses she reveals a dark, angry wit. A wit that can still strike a chord today: "I said it was not the custom in England to confer titles on men distinguished by peaceful services, however good and great; unless occasionally, when they consisted of the accumulation of some very large amount of money."

>Esther, it also becomes clear, bears powerful loathings. She is merciless in her satire of the "telescopic philanthropist" Mrs Jellyby and the deportment-obsessed Old Mr Turverydrop. Her self-deprecation also starts to seem more than a little evasive. Why doesn't she tell us more about her relationship with Allan Woodcourt? I don't like her much more as I come to know her better – but I do admire the way she has been created. Her faults belong to her rather than Charles Dickens …

Oh wow, Bronte actually caught on to Esther's hidden wit. She kinda needed to have that since Dickens needed to make his satire from her point of view.

That's why she saw through Richard's shenanigans unlike Ada. She's pretty smart and sharp.

Esther's self-deprecation came from living with her aunt who told her everyday that she was worthless.

Same like Biddy who clearly reads Pip better then Pip knows himself.

>Then to hear them fall into ecstasies with each other's creations, worshipping the heroine of such a poem – novel – drama, thinking it divine! Fine and divine it may be, but often quite artificial – false as the rose in my best bonnet there.

This quote literally shows exactly why women will never understand men at all.

Will she like her heroine being drawn this cute, Veeky Forums?

No, she'd probably call you a stunted manchild

It's great.

>Women are losers, the more disinterested you act in them, the more they wish to discuss with thee, the more interest you give and the less they reciprocate

why is this so true?

Reminder to report all threads in violation of Global Rule 10.

>women are losers
>thee
oh the ironing

People in general have been portrayed throughout literature as 2 dimensional objects

We have rules?

You don't know what "disinterested" even means lol. How about the next time you pretend to be smart on the internet you hit the dictionary first, eh champ?

Well, you're the one using a gif of an Asian girl laughing.

what was wrong with using disinterested in that sentence?

Patriarchy on suicide watch.

He means to say uninterested, not disinterested.

but disinterested works too

>implying prescriptivism isn't a spook

People conflate the two so much nowadays that it's pretty tenuous to try to call someone out on it. But yes, prescriptively, "uninterested" would fit the context better. Whether or not people actually care is another thing.

It shows that the person doesn't know English that well. Another good example of this is people who use "impact" as a verb. Yes, it's technically possible to use "impact" as a verb but it's not possible to use it that way without coming off as a philistine.

Just because the average English speaker is retarded doesn't mean that we all have to drag ourselves down to the fifth grade reading level.

pic related just for you.

Woolf wrote males well.

Post tits

She would totally be a shrill Tumblr feminist if she were to be alive today. Thank God for the decent society back then.