ITT: we discuss gender science

the reason an engineer can't use an excuse to explain why his shit isn't working is they're using verified results that scientists already produced and checked, so everyone knows they work. the fact that his shit doesn't work is then entirely his fault because it was his one fucking job to just copy the method correctly

Actually the engineer is often used apply what the scientist thinks should work. The engineer then needs to try to make it work. If it can't work then the engineer must try to explain to the scientist why his idea is shit.

>An engineer can't use computer models
you fuckin' wot m8?

>is they're using verified results that scientists already produced and checked

wrong. engineers use empiricism and guesswork that hasn't been placed into a formal framework all the time. steam engines were a thing long before the laws of thermodynamics were written down. electric motors were a thing long before maxwell. and to this day, engineers discover a phenomena and utilize it without necessarily understanding the mechanism. the understanding only becomes important for optimization.

Sentences don't end until you reach the period.

>thread asking about science of gender and sex
>immediately turns into argument about enganeers
fgsfds

Anyone who chooses not to have their own biological children should have their right to vote removed. In fact, there should be a DNA test between parent and child to ensure the parent can be allowed to vote.

People who do not have their own biological children can not be trusted to be voting for the future of mankind.

basically this.

>a failed circumcision started it all
I blame the Jews

are you saying there shouldnt be a voting age? only able to vote once you've had a child?

> voting has an impact on future events

Are you insinuating that people who adopted children don't actually care about the future of the world their adopted children will inherit?

If the person who adopts children isn't sterile themselves, they have an agenda. Most of the time it's so they can be perceived as nice people who're charitable. These smug assholes shouldn't be allowed to vote.

There's a reason why there are no custody battles for adopted children. Neither parents want them.

Oh no. What have they done to you Bill?

Listen, friend. I get paid to science. And science isn't about physics, or chemistry. It isn't about Bunsen burners and will this float. It's about saying bitch and blowjob and accusing other people of sexual harassment. So I encourage you to back off, because you're making me feel uncomfortable right now.

To follow on from this is the modern example of carbon fibre. We used carbon fibre in a lot of things with only empirical data as the method of verifying it;

>build something out of cf
>test it
>try again

There's lots of people trying to create and fit models to carbon fibre in academia but most of them don't work and have stupid coefficients tagged on them to shoehorn them into a functional form.

I don't know much about this show, but bill nye used to have a kids show

This isn't being advertised as a children's show is it?

>spectrum
*autistic screeching*

>no one posted this yet
Prepare for cringe
youtube.com/watch?v=46h-LfNWPn8

So autistic brains shrink and change their shape?

>liberals making fun of someone because muh feels
>the sexually harrassing ice cream sluts
>turn vanilla into a fucking degenerate whore
lmao

The bad part about this is that they're all made of cream but all want to be different because they say so and refuse to acknowledge the fact that they are all cream regardless of their overlaying flavor. Good job Bill nye at making an awful FUCKING FOOD ANALOGY

science is not a social construct

Their prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are smaller, so is the part of the brain responsible for balance and proprioception whatever it's called. Basically the only parts that are bigger are the visual spatial and sensory area. Actually I think there's more to it but Autism affects so much shit that's it's hard to tell and I really can't remember it all. Don't take my word for it. Here's another pic.

What the actual fuck? Is there a magnet link for all the episodes?

Why do you morons care if somebody wants to change their gender?

You know, i hate the average /pol/ bait threads but they have a point this time. Why in the fuck is this dude talking about gender?

Oh they can change their gender alright.... But don't expect us to play to their delusions.(or get weirder out by them and distancing them away from us cuz we don't want to associate with a mentally Ill/unhinged person)

Pop-sci is more politics than science.

I find it frustrating that he's discussing such hotly debated topics as though all scientists are in agreement about them. It's just blatantly misleading.

science is not a gender
or is it?

He's trying to stay relevant. Anyway,
Sex: male or female, that's it
Gender: male or female, that's it (transexuality is just having your brain wired as the opposite sex, special snowflakes on tumblr with their made up labels have nothing to do with this)
Cutting your dick off and wearing a dress: a mental illness

They can change their gender, but I'm not
going to be called transphobic for not
using their pronouns

>genious
lmao

>the world revolves around me

This one isn't a kids show

They do actually often have neurological and hormonal similarities that contradict their assigned gender, but skinny people aren't fat. Bad analogy

your assertions are oversimplifying reality

that's just, like, your incredibly overly suspicious and twisted opinion, man

you're just kind of being a dick if you don't use someone's pronouns. If they pass, then it's kind of natural to use whatever new name they have. Consider it as a new nickname.
Unless they're getting really unnecessarily triggered about it or "misgendering" for calling them what they look like, or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun, I don't see the problem.

"The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play."

"For the Age has itself become vulgar, and most people have no idea to what extent they are themselves tainted. The bad manners of all parliaments, the general tendency to connive at a rather shady business transaction if it promises to bring in money without work, jazz and Negro dances as the spiritual outlet in all circles of society, women painted like prostitutes, the efforts of writers to win popularity by ridiculing in their novels and plays the correctness of well-bred people, and the bad taste shown even by the nobility and old princely families in throwing off every kind of social restraint and time-honoured custom: all of these go to prove that it is now the vulgar mob that gives the tone."

-- Oswald Spengler, The Decline of the West

There are very few genuine trans people. Those born with both male and female organs. Bruce Jenner and people like him are mentally ill and need help. They have a body dysmorphic disorder that can't be treated because they have been turned into cause celebre at the moment. They will never become the other gender. They just deform themselves trying.

Hermaphrodite=/=transgender

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

I want to be a science white male

I think the second quote is from another of Spengler's books.
Probably the hour of decision.

He was made a tranny by a guy who's last name was money. Whadda ya think about that?

Sauce on pic?

>Unless they're getting really unnecessarily triggered about it or "misgendering" for calling them what they look like

That's exactly what's happening, and being encouraged by SJW culture.

>or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun

Don't worry, that's coming.

I define my gender to be the collection of all genders which don't contain themselves.

It's being pushed more and more aggressively in universities, in the media, in politics. /pol/ just recognized its dangerous potential earlier than others.

The thing is that chromosome disorders are exceedingly rare. Bill is trying to say they're normal. They're not.

Sociology strays further and further from anything that can be regarded as science everyday.

Some politician was born a hermaphrodite and decided to become female. The media referred to her as the first transgender mayor of something. The terminology is decided by the group pushing the agenda.

You're listing genetic deadends as though they are revolutionary evolutions worthy of recognition beyond mild curiosity.

They're not. They're disorders that rarely permit reproduction and should not qualify as anything "normal". And I mean that in the most scientifically literate sense.

No. It's just being advertised as "scientific". Which it isn't.

I know for sure it's pseudoscience but I like to post the pic because I think it's on to something sort of speak. I even have more from the same source.

Of course it's pseudoscience. It's psychology / neuro.

holy shit, no fucking way
keep saying how cool it is nye, djesus
the science of feelings people [applause]

cut off a perfectly working leg = mental illness
cut off a perfectly working dick = fits right here in the spectrum

>if it can't work then the engineer
must try to explain to this boss why he shouldn't be fired on the spot

could you please post a copy of that image that won't give me retinal cancer?

do you think Bill can engineer me a vaginer?

what happened to this guy? why did he shift into maximum overshill?

he was always a tool, he just found a new master

>these things are valid because there are people with genetical deficiencies
Might as well shit on people who assumes humans have 5 fingers in each hand because theres some genetic failure out there who don't.

There are 2 gender/sex, outside of that are genetical mutations that shouldn't have been considered at the first place.

If climate science or exploring the Universe was so important to Bill Nye, he wouldn't jeopardise its importance or validity by openly supporting stuff like this, EVEN if he believes it himself, EVEN if there is valid science behind it (does the show even show any proper science or is it all talking heads telling people what to think?). The average person will look at this and say "this Bill Nye fella is stupid as fuck, he must be wrong about all that climate change stuff too".

He's a marketing prop. A Kardashian for people who think they're too smart for the Kardashians.

I firmly believe psychology has harmed science more than it did good, I just hope for the day that psychology is, well, grounded in science. Neuro isn't as bad but has it's problems too. AT least they're grounded in science, kinda. I have mental problems myself and because psychiatry is so shitty, I actually developed more mental issues later on because of these meds. I now don't take my medicine even though I'm prescribed because honestly I have traumatic situations thinking about what it did to me. I grew up taking amphetamines, then anxiety/sleep medication, then SSRI's, then seizure medication, then Anti-psychotics, then allergy medication (for Extra-pyramidal symptoms), it just keeps going on and on. I literally have around 7 or 8 mental disorders diagnosed and even my therapist was fucking appalled.
I can read it just fine, I think you literally need to get your eyes checked. Here's another pic.

Bill nye and nu-science are leftist cancer

>oversimplifying
Would you have a fuck ton class of people with each different mutative phenotypes?

Just because gender is the flavor of the week aspect of biology doesn't make it right to over elaborate them to each and every type of their derivatives.

>tfw autistic savant

Found out when writing my degree, I just can't do it. I get good score on maths but just cannot write.

he's just some actor who used to be an engineer

I'd be mad but he never really had my respect as a scientist just for making some videos that anybody could have made

It's probably a lost cause arguing this here since most of you are politically motivated but..

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
>Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) is a condition that results in the complete inability of the cell to respond to androgens. The unresponsiveness of the cell to the presence of androgenic hormones prevents the masculinization of male genitalia in the developing fetus, as well as the development of male secondary sexual characteristics at puberty, but does not significantly impair female genital or sexual development. As such, the insensitivity to androgens is only clinically significant when it occurs in genetic males (i.e. individuals with a Y chromosome, or more specifically, an SRY gene). All affected individuals are phenotypically female; they develop a normal female habitus, despite the presence of a Y chromosome

Most individuals fall somewhere on the two ends of the spectrum. Some don't. Calling them either male or female would be inaccurate since they fall outside of the probability clouds of normative males and females. Considering the effects of hormones on transsexuals they, too, fall somewhere in between.

A dysmorphic individual does not respond positively to their body being reshaped to the shape they desire. Transsexuals do.

1/2
"Untreated MtFs and FtMs who have an early onset of their gender dysphoria and are sexually oriented to persons of their natal sex show a distinctive brain morphology, reflecting a brain phenotype. These phenotypes are different from those of heterosexual males or females; the differences affect the right hemisphere and cortical structures underlying body perception."

2/2
"The genesis of these phenotypes might be caused by atypical effects of sex hormones or their metabolites in specific cortical regions of MtFs and FtMs. These effects of hormones on the cortex suggest the hypothesis that brain differences between homosexual MtFs and FtMs and male and female controls are due to differences in the development of the cortex; this hypothesis would imply that the thinning process undergone by some regions of the cortex is timed differently in each phenotype.

The review of the available data seems to support two existing hypotheses: (1) a brain-restricted intersexuality in homosexual MtFs and FtMs and (2) Blanchard’s insight on the existence of two brain phenotypes that differentiate “homosexual” and “nonhomosexual” MtFs."
A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism (Guillamon, A., Junque, C. & Gómez-Gil, E. Arch Sex Behav 2016)

Transsexuals, at least those of a certain variety, might be neurologically intersexed to a degree.

>referred for circumcision
FUCK.
THE JEWS LITERALLY DID THIS.

Protip: not actually the first case.

I'll need to go edit that wiki. But there is no "spectrum". You are a man or a woman. And if you want to pretend to be something else, then that is fine. But don't insist on everyone else playing along. The only people that possibly "trigger" anything close to being on an actual gender spectrum are a very very tiny percentage of an already tiny group. All the others are mental cases that need treatment. Not enablers feeding them attention and agitating their mental state. And all the surgery in the world won't change you from a man to a woman or vice versa unless you start with both already.

You need to learn how to read and accept scientific evidence Fritz.

citizengo.org/en-us/39715-tell-national-geographic-gender-ideology-harms-children

96,675 people have signed. Help us reach 100,000 signatures.

On August 17, 2016, the American College of Pediatricians issued a statement saying “gender Ideology harms children,” and “urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex. Facts – not ideology – determine reality.” In their statement, they go on to say “a person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking.”

These statements are supported by three leading medical doctors in the field, including Paul McHugh, M.D., University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School and the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

The statement goes on to say "Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse."

This is transphobic.

>Bill is trying to say they're normal.
[citation needed]
also, while abnormal karyotypes are quite rare, intersex conditions aren't limited to them. something like 1 in every 1500 births is intersex to some degree.

>They're disorders that rarely permit reproduction and should not qualify as anything "normal".
>Might as well shit on people who assumes humans have 5 fingers in each hand because theres some genetic failure out there who don't.
this issue is descriptive, not normative. why are you so hung up on what's "normal" or not?
albinism isn't "normal" either. nor are cervical ribs, horseshoe kidneys, situs inversus totalis, or polydactyly. all of those are fairly rare, and all can be deleterious to some degree. it doesn't mean they're not real. understand that except insofar as some of those conditions require some management, they're not bad, just different. someone with SIT might need to wear a medical bracelet, but they'll live perfectly normal lives otherwise. someone with cervical ribs might not even notice them. someone who's intersex will probably be sterile or subfertile, but might very well be fine otherwise.

sex (and gender for that matter) is bimodal, but not binary.
there are two main syndromes that most individuals fall into: male and female. but there are also some oddballs that don't fit into one or the other, usually with a little bit of both.

>American College of Pediatricians
is a meme hate group lead by fundies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians

>Paul McHugh
AKA the man who willfully misinterpreted research results by Cecilia Dhejne, who said as much in a public interview.

>hurr these facts offend me so I'm gonna edit the article to get rid of them
lol snowflake
but seriously though, how do you reconcile your claim that everyone's EITHER a man OR a woman with the existence of people who literally have one testicle, one ovary, a penis, half a uterus, and some cells that are 46XX and some that are 46XY? are such people men or are they women? care to explain that?

>American College of Pediatricians
they're a group of whiners who started their own pediatrics organization because they got their panties in a twist over the American Academy of Pediatrics saying that gays can be good parents.
They've got 500 members or so, as compared to the ~60,000 members of the AAP, and they exist only as an advocacy group for their own brand of ideology; they don't actually do any real science or medicine.

this is basically correct

> or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun
Except that's a real issue in Canada right now.

>A fucking leaf

See Gender diasphora is a result of genetical deficiencies.
Why particularly over elaborate them to include each and every derivatives of these genetic permutations into the general definition when other genetic flaws in regards to anything beside gender are considered as disabilities?

What makes the flavor of the week aspect, that is gender, objectively different that it requires to be treated differently than other genetic defects?

People that are outside the 2 genders are disabled and should be treated so. Or at least other or similar genetic defects shouldn't be considered a disability for consistency.

>this issue is descriptive, not normative. why are you so hung up on what's "normal" or not?
Because that is the main and the most important issue that lots of things are being staked upon.
The arguments are not whether there exist oddballs or not. The argument is whether these gender oddballs requires to be considered different than other genetic oddballs or not.

Chromosomes determine gender.
>hurr these facts offend me so I'm gonna edit the article to get rid of them
wikipedia in a nutshell
>but seriously though, how do you reconcile your claim that everyone's EITHER a man OR a woman with the existence of people who literally have one testicle, one ovary, a penis, half a uterus, and some cells that are 46XX and some that are 46XY? are such people men or are they women? care to explain that?

That's a tiny subset and more accurately called "hermaphrodites". Lumping them in with "muh feels" genders is deliberately misleading and a disservice to people with real medical issues.

R.I.P. science.

Who owns pronouns?
I say 'my' pronouns are the ones I choose, when composing a sentence.
SJW's lay claim to these ('my') pronouns by declaring that I must use other pronouns around them...
I think it needs to be pointed out, to SJW's, who owns which pronouns.

Noun is very patriarchal. The fact you even want to relate to pro-noun makes you verbiage-privileged. We communicate in grunts and clicks now.

>people who think they are another sex suffer from a body dysmorphia disorder. Same as skinny people who believe they are fat or vice versa
But that's wrong. Transexuals are not mistaken about the physical shape of their body, they just want to change it. These threads are like flat Earth threads or .999...=/=1 threads, the same points get brought up and refuted every time and then posted again in the next thread regardless.

>autistic finger-snapping!!!

>Gender diasphora is a result of genetical deficiencies.
not actually true. gender dysphoria seems to be proximally caused by hormonal fluctuations in utero. there are genetic components, but they have apparently very low penetrance and remain poorly understood.
>genetic flaws in regards to anything beside gender are considered as disabilities
not actually true either. never heard of heterozygote advantage?
>People that are outside the 2 genders are disabled and should be treated so.
why?
the only symptom they experience from being intersex is infertility, in a lot of cases. should we consider all infertile people to be disabled?

>That's a tiny subset and more accurately called "hermaphrodites".
so you admit that not EVERYONE's either a man or a woman. thanks.
how about a less dramatic condition than chimeric hermaphroditism? say, someone who has a micropenis, internal streak gonads, and an aplastic uterus? they're not a true hermaphrodite, but they certainly aren't entirely male or female.
>Lumping them in with "muh feels" genders is deliberately misleading and a disservice to people with real medical issues.
there is a problem with people invoking "muh feels", but there's a convincing body of research that there's an aspect of brain structure and development in biological sex; the brain is hardwired to expect a certain physiological state. a lot of genderqueer-identified people have some kind of mismatch or atypical condition in that regard.

>racists crying because our understanding and science keeps moving forward

Being forever 13 must suck a lot.

>hormonal fluctuations in utero
Was referring to the cases described in Also defects that are caused by abnormal hormonal fluctuations are still defects.

>heterozygote advantage
Which obviously doesn't include genetic flaws that encourages mutilating your genitals and be infertile.

>should infertile be disabled
Yes, ED is one case of infertile disability. Unless you are encouraging a society to limit their fertility, these things shouldn't be considered good or normal.

Also you still haven't explained why we didn't shame people who bigotedly assume that humans are bipedals, because there are obviously humans who are not.

>so you admit that not EVERYONE's either a man or a woman. thanks.
>buying into the strawman that MSM pushed that every gender science dissenter can't into genetic mutations
>micropenis, internal streak gonads, and an aplastic uterus
Physical defects, the longer people chose not to accept that, the harder everything going to be for everyone.

>a lot of genderqueer-identified people have some kind of mismatch or atypical condition in that regard
Sure, the argument is not that they exist, but how to deal with them.
Correctly labeling them as mentally ill and providing access to therapy for them so that they can be a productive member of society is the argument that MSM won't show you.