Favourite Books

Read lolita a month ago, loved it. Convince me to read ada

>I don't think I got much out of it
That's what we're talking about it right now. Is it possible for a book to be great without a didactic message. The language, the diction, the lucidity, the precision are enough for me in and of themselves.

Here's a beautiful quote from it:
"I wish to caress Time. One can be a lover of Space and its possibilities: take, for example, speed, the smoothness and sword-swish of speed; the aquiline glory of ruling velocity; the joy cry of the curve, and one can be an amateur of Time, an epicure of duration. I delight sensually in Time, in its stuff and spread, in the fall of its folds, in the very impalpability of its grayish gauze, in the coolness of its continuum. I wish to do something about it; to indulge in a simulacrum of possession ..."

Is language like that enough for you user?

It's his only work that rivals Lo, I actually prefer it to Lo. Read it and find out for yourself. And don't be dissuaded by the first 25 pages, they're very difficult and not representative of the rest of the book. Either way enjoying Lo is pretty much a guarantee that you're gonna' like Ada, even just read Part 1

...

The other user nailed it in his post here: Much like Ulysses, it displays an incredible command of language and structure (the carefully constructed world and usage of non-linear time), and an overall enchanting directing of the imagination.

Here's a random passage I opened up on:

"His sentimental education now went on fast. Next morning, he happened to catch sight of her washing her face and arms over an old-fashioned basin on a rococo stand, her hair knotted on the top of her head, her nightgown twisted around her waist like a clumsy corolla out of which issued her slim back, rib-shaded on the near side. A fat snake of porcelain curled around the basin, and as both the reptile and he stopped to watch Eve and the soft woggle of her bud-breasts in profile, a big mulberry-colored cake of soap slithered out of her hand, and her block-socked foot hooked the door shut with a bang which was more the echo of the soap's crashing against the marble board than a sign of pudic displeasure.

Surely you feel the 'tingle of the spine' from the music and dancing imagery of this passage? And that's a randomly chosen one, the excerpt the other user posted is much better.

I'm still on the fence about it myself. At the very least, if we do judge a work on its 'revelations' (I hate using the word 'moral' here, because it would mean a work can be bad simply by presenting an immoral message), it's still best to come at it from an aesthete base.

>I'm starting to believe perhaps the greatest works of art do require some sort of treatise on human nature or spirituality.

Melville famously wrote in Moby-Dick: "To produce a mighty book, you must choose a mighty theme. No great and enduring volume can ever be written on the flea, though many there be that have tried it."

I don't necessarily agree with the second part of this quote, but I do agree with the first. I think that the flea can be a mighty theme, but the great writer must first make the flea great. I think that everything has the possibility of being a mighty theme, but it needs a mighty writer to fully develop its potential. Take Neruda's Odas Elementales for example. He exalted and celebrated almost everything that came to view, from the onion to the dictionary to the sea and sadness. You need a mighty theme to write a mighty book, but first you need a mighty writer to bring forth a mighty theme.

why is this so much longer than his other books?

That is precisely my thoughts on it as well (that is, when I'm not under the spell of Nabokov's aestheticism). A great writer requires that his formal qualities be great, but a supreme one needs both a great theme and style/structure. Hence my conflict with putting Nabokov on the same tier as, say, Dante or Joyce.

and now you're 20 and more of a tryhard bitch than ever

>Is language like that enough for you user?

I don't think so, honestly. At least not for a 600 page novel. I mean, I think that passage is absolutely lovely and all, but I cannot endure that type of writing for a lengthy novel without something "behind" all of it.

I'm not saying the book is bad or anything, my lack of total enjoyment is probably due to lack of sufficient reading skill. I just find that reading through that is exhausting and I don't find it pleasurable after awhile. Also my attention span is probably fried from too much internet and videogames.

Gravity's Rainbow

read it three times, it changed my life
what a novel

What is so difficult about it? Genuinely interested, I've only read Lolita and Pale Fire so far from Nabby

>but a supreme one needs both a great theme and style/structure.

Yet Joyce wrote about vouyerism and public masturbation in Nausicaa in a way that has not been matched since. I do not believe that vouyerism and public masturbation are what one could call "great themes". Or perhaps I am confusing them with images that act as means to convey the so-called "great theme". Of course, we should ask ourselves, what the hell do we even mean by "great theme". It is very much some kind of mystical abstraction that we take for granted without considering it to its full extent. I am not saying it doesn't exist, but we shouldn't take it for granted either. In other words, what is the real difference between writing an ode to an onion and writing one to the sea? Is the theme of the search for God in Dante different from that of waiting for Godos in Beckett, and if so, in what respect?

There is a ton of untranslated French and Russian, for one. It is also exceedingly "purpley" and features an immense vocabulary, even for Nabokov.

I have only read Lolita and Pale Fire and absolutely loved them both. Really looking forward to Ada, but I gotta learn French first. My favourite book is (unironically) Ulysses.

ok but not too much intertextuality? I can google translate the russian passages and I know french, but oblique references to texts I haven't read always get my goat

it's just super expansive and the prose is littered with syntactical puzzles and digression-within-digressions. which is weird because the main narrative is pretty simple, it's about a guy in love with his cousin and they have a lot of sex as kids then they are seperated by various forces as they get older. but vlad backdrops this with a huge family history, an alternate history scifi/fantasy setting, and the various politics and philosophies of this world.

i can't say i loved the book only because i cared so little for its protagonists or narrative arcs, which, at Ada's length and levels of obsessiveness is hard to overlook, but it was a fascinating ride.

first 50 pages and last 50 pages were my favorite parts. also Van's duel in the first half.

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For me, theme is the metaphorical meaning behind the content. Using the four-pronged approach of the scriptural interpretation, 'theme' encompasses the allegorical, tropological (moral), and anagogical (spiritual). This definitely allows the literal aspect or content to be of a crude nature, like masturbation or pooping or, even in the case of Naked Lunch, non-consensual pederasty.

Or, to put it simpler in Nabokov's terms, if the style and structure 'tingle the spine', themes stimulate the brain. I don't think there's any inherent difference in theme when it comes to content (onion v. sea), but there's certainly some content that's better suited or more conducive to specific themes (the sea comes with the associations and mood of epic, grand, adventure, etc. right 'out-of-the-box' that an onion does not).

I completely agree with you, but when you say:

>but there's certainly some content that's better suited or more conducive to specific themes (the sea comes with the associations and mood of epic, grand, adventure, etc. right 'out-of-the-box' that an onion does not).

I also agree, but that's why I said that you need a great writer to bring forth the potential of a theme in order to make that theme great. Here's a translation of an excerpt Neruda's Ode to the Onion:

Under the earth
the miracle
happened
and when your clumsy
green stem appeared,
and your leaves were born
like swords
in the garden,
the earth heaped up her power
showing your naked transparency,
and as the remote sea
in lifting the breasts of Aphrodite
duplicating the magnolia,
so did the earth
make you,
onion
clear as a planet
and destined
to shine,
constant constellation,
round rose of water,
upon
the table
of the poor.

Interestingly, there is also a mention of the sea, but the language of the ode is mostly epic in nature when talking about its subject. Indeed, the onion lacks the associations and mood that the sea "inherently" lacks (because of tradition, possibilities of imagination and greatness in size, etc). But an onion can also be the subject not only of an ode, but also of epic connotations in that ode. If there is, as you say, some content that's better suited ot more conducive to specific themes, I think it is so because of tradition and popular association, but a great artist, like Neruda, will bring forth and even establish a tradition and imaginative association from something as simple as an onion.

>the associations and mood that the sea "inherently" lacks

I meant "inherently has", my bad.

i really love this book

Either pic related or Calvino's Invisible Cities.

having loved cosmicomics and baron in the trees i recently read invisible cities and enjoyed it but was a little let down.

what about it do you like so much that it might be your favorite book period?

Suttree is far and away my favorite book of all time.

However, I hesitate to recommend it that often as I enjoyed on such an intimate emotional level that I can't be sure it would hit someone as it hit me.

This is McCarthy's best book.

Good taste. Ada is in my top few also. Probably Ulysses or Gravitys rainbow -- yes I know the memes. Also like Ficciones or Dreamtigers by Borges. Probably rounded out by Gaddis recognitions and Beware of Pity by Stefan Zweig or Robert Musil.

I think he knew it was his time to write his opus, he was just coming off of Pnin, Pale Fire, Lolita, and obviously was in top form. I know a lot of Anons in this thread are concerned about the length but I honestly would have been glad if it was longer. Perhaps give it a try, and abandon it if the writing isn't for you

>The Recognitions

No you weren't.

I bought this but haven't gotten around to read it. What did you enjoy about it user? Sell me on it?

>Beware of Pity by Stefan Zweig
I love you user. Stefan Zweig is one of my all time favourite novels too. You should read Amok and Chess Story (AKA The Royal Game) roughly immediately if you haven't yet. You have wonderful taste

Jesus. Beware of Pity is one of my all time favourite novels too**

not him, but it's pretty great. an everyman nobody living on the desolate banks of the tennessee river, drinking, fishing, sometimes fighting, slumming it up with manic depressive hobos including gene harrogate who's a dumb as shit watermelon-fucker always cooking up looney tunes level get-rich schemes.

oh fuck that sounds sweet

it is man, get on it.

> it's still best to come at it from an aesthete base.
I agree. Nice hearing your perspective btw, it's interesting to try to analyze/appraise my aesthetic intuitions

preach

TBK or probably War and Peace once I have finished it (300 pages left).

Although this is a beautiful passsage, I don't think it's enough to fill a complete novel with it without any sort of deeper thoughts or ideas behind it like points out.

If you just want to read for style and the aesthetic of the language, isn't poetry a much more efficient medium?

Could you post what stories are in that collection? I've got his collected stories but I'm a little overwhelmed by the amount, want to start with a whittled down grouping.

Not that poster. I've read Invisible Cities and If on a winter's night a traveler... and man, Invisible Cities is 10000x better than the latter. If on a winter's night is fun for maybe 5-7 chapters and just devolves into repetitive variations on the same concept i.e. metatextuality.

Would you recommend Cosmicomics and baron in the trees?

Invisible Cities is such a delight. His joy in writing it is so palpable and it's so clever. The descriptions are so clear but abundant. The dialogue (in an opium den?) between Khan and Polo is fantastic. Can't see what's not to love--care to elaborate?

Thanks -- I was fortunate enough to find a signed copy with the bookcover still intact. I just happened to read The Chess Story last night by chance. It was one of those complimentary books left by the hotel staff in my room. Staying in Salzburg this weekend so I might check out his villa overlooking the town later today.

Le città invisibili e una storia meravigliosa...check out Borges' Dreamtigers, which doesn't get a lot of love around here. The Parable of the Palace is one of my favorites.

Is that the original of this? I loved it too.

Ada, or Ardor is also my favorite book.

I had never experienced prose quite like that before. Also, the philosophy part thrown in was neat.

Yep. It's great.