Is there a connection between mental illness and creativity?

As a rule, yes. But there have been some exceptions - let us call them honorary straight white men.

From Shermer's the Believing Brain:

>Dopamine enhances the ability of neurons to transmit signals between one another. How? By acting as an agonist (as opposed to antagonist), or a substance that enhances neural activity. Dopamine binds to specific receptor molecule sites on the synaptic clefts of the neurons, as if it were the CTS that normally bind there.12 It increases the rate of neural firing in association with pattern recognition, which means that synaptic connections between neurons are likely to increase in response to a perceived pattern, thereby cementing those perceived patterns into long-term memory through the actual physical growth of new neural connections and the reinforcement of old synaptic links.

>Increasing dopamine increases pattern detection; scientists have found that dopamine agonists not only enhance learning but in higher doses can also trigger symptoms of psychosis, such as hallucinations, which may be related to that fine line between creativity (discriminate patternicity) and madness (indiscriminate patternicity). The dose is the key. Too much of it and you are likely to be making lots of Type I errors—false positives—in which you find connections that are not really there. Too little and you make Type II errors—false negatives—in which you miss connections that are real.

yes

>Young adults, and probably even a significant number men and women over thirty, have been tricked (well, kind of) into believing that being depressed or otherwise fucked up

Most young adults slowly start to see this lie for what it is and try in their own ways to work out of their depressions. The ones who revel in their depressions for decades to come under the belief that it is somehow an intrinsic part of their character and talent are deluding themselves.

I think most intelligent young adults fall under the former and are trying to navigate their way past it.

>Young adults, and probably even a significant number men and women over thirty, have been tricked

>Most young adults slowly start to see this lie for what it is and ry in their own ways to work out of their depressions. The ones who revel in their depressions for decades to come under the belief that it is somehow an intrinsic part of their character and talent are deluding themselves.

Generalise Generalise generalise generalise generalise Generalise generalise generalise generalise Generalise generalise generalise generalise Generalise generalise generalise generalise Generalise generalise generalise generalise...

>a ball of inchoate emotion

I take it that you are one of these types, yes?

honorary straight white CONSERVATIVE men, rather. Liberals can't into art

>I take it that you are one of these types, yes?
Only on Tuesdays.

Aren't you bored of the same old shitposting yet? Can't you try out some new humor?

>inb4 not a joke
Not funny either.

But seriously why were you so triggered just then?

Hit a little too close to home?

Why respond to anything on this board at all? What makes you think I was triggered and not bored? It's not like Ctrl+Ving a post takes as much effort as an angry rant.

My hunch is that you simply want more from me.

>What makes you think I was triggered and not bored?

Context is key. It's that you were "bored" in this thread specifically that's rather telling.

>My hunch is that you simply want more from me.

I just want you to smile more, Sunshine.

>can't handle a non-PC opinion

This place isn't for you

>It's that you were "bored" in this thread specifically that's rather telling.
You and me both, brother. Maybe you're a creative genius and I'm a madman. Or vice-versa!?

>I just want you to smile more, Sunshine.
Too hard on the face muscles.

Calling out shite =/= can't handle. Although I get the joke now - it's funny how much you like to pretend you're some kind of cyber badass.

>You and me both, brother. Maybe you're a creative genius and I'm a madman. Or vice-versa!?

I'm a slightly above average layman. I'd never delude myself into thinking I was actual genius when I know I'm not.

I think you aren't being entirely honest with user about why you spammed just then, but I digress...

>I'd never delude myself
>I'm a slightly above average
How do you know?

>I think you aren't being entirely honest with user about why you spammed just then
My point was simply that both posts were overgeneralisations. That was SO clear. I could have written it out in a sentence (like the one two sentences ago), but I chose to copy and paste to be obnoxious.

If you really want a serious answer? Mental illness can be awful business. Children are at the mercy of adults to ease them into a strange, bizzare, and often cruel world. On top of this, we are all "hard-wired" differently, and some people have biological tendencies towards this (was my other post) kind of temperament. They need nuanced care. It goes without saying that many times this developmental path goes into insanely twisted places very often and some people end up developing consciousness in a body and mind that is out of their own control. To allude that they are "pretending" mental illness to be part of some Dead Poets Society club is belittling, insensitive, and simplistic. Says more of those posters than actual people who struggle with real depression, psychosis, or whatever.

read based Lombrosso and find out
>plebs won't give any reference, just spout out their autistic opinions

>People actually believe this
What about the fact that the majority of music genres have been created by black people
>rock
>rap
>jazz
>funk
>disco

>To allude that they are "pretending" mental illness to be part of some Dead Poets Society club is belittling, insensitive, and simplistic.

I struggle with serious depression. I probably have more years of it under my belt that you do (not that I'm reducing it to some bullshit victim olympics, just saying this for reference), so I'm not some happy-go-lucky normie ignorantly taking shots at you because I don't "get it".

Romanticizing it is still nonsense. Most of the kids who have this aren't the next Van Gogh or Goya, they aren't anything like that. They just need to start slowly working themselves to a better place.

>rock, rap, jazz, funk, disco

All degenerate and destroying white culture and tradition and natural hierarchy and aesthetic purity

*>soul,R&B, Blues, ska

Are you fucking retarded? From that alone I can tell you have never listened to good jazz or rock. John Coltrane and Frank Zappa are the zenith of aesthetic purity you edgelord cunt

>People kill themselves out of fashion.
The only meme that should die here is you.

Wow, try mozart (white) and compare?

>Romanticizing it is still nonsense.
Agreed, but most people who really need help are not doing this. They are in trouble. And perhaps if they are romanticising it is because they are simply trying to make the best out of a shitty situation.

>Most of the kids who have this aren't the next Van Gogh or Goya, they aren't anything like that. They just need to start slowly working themselves to a better place.
Agreed. Creative pursuits can be a big help with this. If honest and shared, they can also help others. And I agree with you that doing it for some kind of fame or attention is a bad trap.

Just recently a 12 year old girl in America hung herself because her little boyfriend broke up with her. Do think that has nothing to do with societal influence?

Sure! I'm a literary genius and I'm a fucking quack!

Just because Mozart was more creative does not mean that other races besides Indo-Europeans are not. Also fyi your aryan Übermensch Mozart had a scat fetish

*>House, Techno

Who the fuck are *you*? She's the one that fucking died and you shit on her? Are you goddamn autistic? Yes, she's a dumb kid. Do you think her parents either didn't tell her that or let her do that stupid shit? You're the one that's belittling the issue here.

>Mozart had a scat fetish
liberal propaganda

house and techno is white music
>not listening to minimalistic, avant-garde electronic music

>Who the fuck are *you*? She's the one that fucking died and you shit on her? Are you goddamn autistic?

Woah, calm down. I am not belittling the death of a 12 year old girl. It is very obviously a tragic situation. I am simply pointing out that there were probably subconscious societal influences at play.

you wanna cite any evidence or... do you just wanna look like an idiot?

your the one who made something up to make him seem non-white

house and techno is not white at all.
please dive into musical history and consider the black, mostly gay scenes of chicago and detroit in the 80s. then proceed to kill yourself because of ignorance

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_scatology

Bona nox!
bist a rechta Ochs;
bona notte,
liebe Lotte;
bonne nuit,
pfui, pfui;
good night, good night,
heut müßma noch weit;
gute Nacht, gute Nacht,
scheiß ins Bett daß' kracht;
gute Nacht, schlaf fei g'sund
und reck' den Arsch zum Mund.
:D

still remember my mom singing it to me as a lullaby, its fucking hilarious

Of course there are societal influences. Of course people kill themselves because they know others have over similar things. But it's not like the situations themselves didn't weren't prone to perpetuate it to begin with. Take Japan as an example of a society were suicide is as common but it happens in different situations: when you find someone killed themself in either society, the conclusion is the same: those people were completely alone against the issue. Be it romantic love or a salaryman getting fired, they're let alone on a situation were outside influence can't affect them and from a fatality they can't come back from--so they turn to the one thing they can't come back from.

That's the case with autism, although it's not a mental illness (say, just an abnormality). Autistic people often have one area of their brain overdeveloped, which is the reason why they're so extraordinarily good at some things (it can be maths, arts, writing, you name it).

However, this also means that other parts of their brain are underdeveloped, and this makes themstruggle at things that 'normal' people have no problem with (engaging in social interactions, being able to take care of himself).

Because of this, they are seen as weirdos, or worse, psychos. I guess that's the case with other disorders/illnesses like schizophrenia or OCD.

liberal brainwashing trying to discredit whiteness

please leave /pol/ shill

psychosis is genetically linked to creativity.
mania is also linked to incresed power of association

>Of course there are societal influences.

Then what are you trying to character assassinate me over in that previous post if you are conceding that this is in fact a player here? Last post you inferred that I was wrongly leaving this issue solely on the parent's doorstep as if they wouldn't have acted had they in fact known.

You say that the chief issue here is that people are left in silence to deal with this. I know. They should have outlets to help them through, I am not stating otherwise, but always addressing the disassociation first before the societal conditions that engender it is putting the cart before the horse. You'll always be playing catch up that way.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that if a poster isn't as performative with their emotion when posting that they somehow don't feel as sincerely about a topic as you do.

>inferred

implied** brain fart.

Yes, there certainly seems to be. Or, at least, there very often is.

"Why is it that all those who have become eminent in philosophy or politics, or poetry or the arts are clearly melancholics, and some of them to such an extent as to be affected by diseases caused by black bile?"
Aristotle
"Problematica

biopsychiatry.com/melancholia.html

You really come off as an unempathetic asshole, here, in case you didn't know.

As much as I resented being told that I was "like Van Gogh" or similar to the literally thousands of other artists, poets, musicians, etc. who were diagnosed with some kind of mental illness when I was in therapy, I at least didn't come to the jaded conclusion that I was getting "tricked" somehow.

It's pretty hard to find a silver lining when all you can seem to do is think about ways to kill yourself all day, so sometimes it's a little comforting to ruminate on how people who *were* respected may have gone through similar phases of their life, and there's always a chance it might get better.

This is called "hope," user, and without it you will find life to be increasingly intolerable.

inb4 user cites this post and glibly writes "moron" underneath

>so sometimes it's a little comforting to ruminate on how people who *were* respected may have gone through similar phases of their life

Yes but this ties the "hope" up with abstract notions of eventual social validation. Not something that I've wholly grown out of either, so stones and glass houses and all that, but you should be trying to do what you're doing for yourself alone.

Hang in there, m8.

If you put any stock into psychiatric research, there is a significant correlative effect between those that suffer psychosis and creative expression, as indicated by the mechanisms adequately put forth by regarding dopaminergic activity.

>This is not the fucking case, I assure you.

Citation needed

Here's a cursory study related to the above phenomenon

psychcentral.com/lib/the-dopamine-connection-between-schizophrenia-and-creativity/

And this is more from the psychological analysis perspective as opposed to clinical psychiatric:

personalityresearch.org/papers/byrd.html

There's a lot more out there on the topic. Whether or not that means that the psychiatric lens of viewing what is known to be mental illness is an accurate depiction based on our understanding of reality is a different topic, but the correlation nonetheless does exist and does have plausible data to back it up.

Romanticist myth.

You know what connects all artists? The will to actually work on their art.

>Is there a connection between a label that describes the degree to which one's perspective stands out from the cultural norms by which it is measured and a word that denotes the ability to communicate concepts that stretch the limits of cultural norms by introducing perspectives from outside of them?

Tautology detected

there's a connection between being a manlet and those things

>12 IT
>not acknowledging that dopamine doesn't participate in synapses all across the brain
>not taking into account the existence of neural pathways bound to specific neurotransmitters

wew

Wow, I guess I hit a nerve huh?
Are you all that talented? """special snowflakes""", eh? Of course you are!
Those who claim mental illness and creativity/genius are linked, are themselves mentally ill and of course, they want to be a genius or special in some way too. Don't get me wrong, some geniuses probably were mentally ill, but the "My depression and overall losing at life means I'm secretly an unrecognised genius" bullshit is laughable.
As for the guy posting "psychiatric research", hahahahahahaha! Fucking good joke, mate. "Significant correlative effect" hahahahahahah! Oh dear.

False. There is a strong connection between schizotypy and creativity. That's why most great artists were at least eccentric compared to your average college normie.

>being this insecure

blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-real-link-between-creativity-and-mental-illness/

Basically this article says that creativity is connected to mild schizophrenia/shizotypy. That's why creative people tend to have mentally ill or schizophrenic relatives (case in point, Joyce's daughter was schizophrenic while Joyce just had schizotypy)

From Wikipedia:
>Schizotypal personality disorder (STPD) or schizotypal disorder is a mental disorder characterized by severe social anxiety, paranoia, and often unconventional beliefs. People with this disorder feel extreme discomfort with maintaining close relationships with people, mainly because they think that their peers harbor negative thoughts towards them, so they avoid forming them. Peculiar speech mannerisms and odd modes of dress are also symptoms of this disorder. In some cases, people with STPD may react oddly in conversations, not respond, or talk to themselves.[1]
>They frequently interpret situations as being strange or having unusual meaning for them; paranormal and superstitious beliefs are common. Such people frequently seek medical attention for anxiety or depression instead of their personality disorder.[2] Schizotypal personality disorder occurs in approximately 3% of the general population and is more common in males.[3]

>2017, still trying to defend himself with 'u mad'
>typing out laughter
>insecurity oozing from every word.

Pathetic.

>I hit a nerve lol
The battle cry of the insecure. You want so badly to matter, don't you?

>psychological pursuits are meaningless
>posting on a Veeky Forums board
At the VERY least, those researchers have spent a lot more time thinking and writing on their topic of interest than you. Often, as a bonus, their thinking and writing is grounded in analysis of data from many other peoples opinions too.

>hahaha, that person's opinion is stupid because they're wearing a silly looking lab coat and think they're so smart, you think you're BETTER than me!?
This is what you sound like, and we're trying to have a discussion.

>paranormal and superstitious beliefs are common

So, considering that kek and meme magic thing, whole /pol/ is just a bunch schizotypal cunts.

>whole /pol/ is just a bunch schizotypal cunts.
When did you ever doubt this?

>Insecurity
Lmao, fucking projecting or what?!

Insecure again??! See above, you fucking faggot.
"That is what you soind like heheururururr" - you sound like you're straight from Plebbit, you fucking cunt.
Rest of your post is garbage
Die slow and in a hole

>"Come on goys!!! TO BE MENTALLY ILL IS A GOOD THING DON'THCA KNOW?!?! GOOD GOYIM, TAKE THESE MEDS"

Jews hate mental illness because mentally ill people make bad wagecucks

Of course, in this case, schizotypy is just a continuum of features that some have more than others. High schizotypy is really just eccentricity.

>multiple people say I sound insecure
>REEEEEEEE no I don't, it's all projections fuck you garbage reddit plebs!

>
>Jews hate mental illness because mentally ill people make bad wagecucks
>implying Jews haven't made a business out of perpetually "treating" mental illness

Jews invented "Mental illness"

yes.

Their mental oddities allow them to think in abnormal and sometimes profound ways.

>Multiple people
Gee, I guess they must be right huh!?
Multiple people also like eating shit from a chicks tits while masturbating.
It quite obviously was projection.
Look at how many people got upset over my original post. None of them can handle being tol, even briefly, that they're not special or talented, or a genius, as they have convinced themselves that they are, after watching and consuming too much daytime TV and "internet knowledge"

Fucking hilarious.
A bunch of depressed/mentally ill that desperately want their to be a "good side" to their lives of desperation and failure.
>"Come on! It can't be all bad! That's just not faiiiiiirrrr! Waaaaaaah"

You just keep twisting this into thinking you're somehow upsetting people. This is Veeky Forums, your post was tame.

People are calling you out for being an insecure idiot, as is obvious from your posts.

>This is Veeky Forums dudddddddeeeee we are like, edgy, and stuff
>Projection again

What is insecure about telling some nu-male morons the truth about their "illness"?
It comes with no such silver lining, that was my only point, you fucking idiot. If you can't handle that, and "life is not fair", then unlucky, my friend, because that's the way of the world

Jesus christ, this entire board has been fucking ruined since faggots like you started posting

youtube.com/watch?v=WZsJ6BtOh60

These cases are a minority, but it does show a connection between mental illness and creativity.
The question is only to what extent this occurs in the regular population. Given that creativity is actually a skill anyways, I figure that the misconception that mentally ill people are better at it is probably because their brains naturally have different patterns of thought which caused the illness in the first place.
There are those who would then go on and say mental illness is a 'gift', I disagree with that. It's like getting chucked down a hole and getting congratulated that you got out of it, if you ever do.
Most depressed people are suffering from negative self talk, and they don't realize that the brain learns over time what it thinks is correct or not. If you can say to yourself "I'm a piece of shit" in your mind and get no counter thoughts against that, or feel worse, it's likely you've become familiar with the idea and believe that you truly are a piece of shit.

Just like creativity, it's a belief and a skill. Anyone can learn creativity and to not think they are a piece of shit. It's only difficult because people don't realize that the subconscious is thinking far, far faster than the conscious mind is and has already decided what you believe long ago, going as far back as womb development.
So, naturally, all of you fucktards are completely incorrect in every possible way and every response you make to my post is uneducated.
And, if you do respond, it's just me exploiting your easy to predict psychology because it's rare enough for people to step out of the hivemind response team and state what they actually believe.
Once they do, then they realize how dumb beliefs are and grow as people to learn how things actually work instead of mouth off some unresearched ignorance.

Holy shit, are you retarded? Some of those posts are indeed dumb, yes, but why are you lumping in the few that actually make some reference to science? This is really pathetic, just stop.

There was nothing insecure about your first post.

Sinxe then, you have completely ignored any counterpoints people have raised and instead pitched your entire position as
>you simply can't handle my post it was so powerful and you are all butthurt
This shows a lot of insecurity in your position, as does your attitude and constant bleating about how edgy you seemed to think your post was. You have nothing to back it up with. Did you not want to actually have a discussion?

Holy shit, this is the most beautiful buttanger i've seen in my life.

Please keep posting, your pathetic insecurity is hilarious. You're too dumb to be trolling, we're all just looking at you pityingly.

t. teenager who just realized that he was actually not depressed so everyone else must be faking it too

pls don't fight anymore ;_;

>anyone can learn creativity and to not think they are a piece of shit

How? Give details please.

Well, creativity has something to do with "latent inhibition". This is effectively how long it takes for various stimuli (external or conceptual) to become associated in the brain. Creative types have lower latent inhibition than average, meaning their thinking is more associative, thinking of ordinary things in new ways - and this is what spawns their out-of-the-ordinary ideas. It can manifest in other ways though: sensory overload is a possibility. Low latent inhibition is associated with things like autism and schizophrenia if the individual is not equipped to deal with their level of stimulation. Obviously this forms a spectrum, and this is certainly not one-dimensional. But if you're constantly stretching the boundaries of your thinking, you're bound to have a few odd thoughts, even a few screws loose. So I think there is some connection.

Is there a such thing as mental illness?

I'm schizophrenic and yes, there is such thing. Just like any machine or a part of the body something can be wrong with the brain. I have hid under my bed with a knife for days on end as shadow people walked around looking for me. I used to be on medication but it took away any sense of being alive away from me, I take stuff to help me sleep at night now but that's it and occasionally a medication to keep from sweating to much when I'm in public. I'm never alone but I've learned to live with it but I live in fear. I have a girlfriend now that is amazing and helps me through the rough spots. But when my mind decides to go full on crazy the Game is on.

yes, there is at least one person that is mentally ill and creative.

Therefore, there is a connection.

How strong it is depends on you.

>You seem to be under the mistaken impression that if a poster isn't as performative with their emotion when posting that they somehow don't feel as sincerely about a topic as you do.
You seem to be under the impression that other people can read your mind and aren't working with what little of it your actions and words show in order to communicate. If you *only* tell a suicidal kid that he's an idiot, even if you think otherwise, you're as much of the problem. If you talk shit about this, even here, you're only perpetrating the problem. That is my point.

The worst part is that there's no reason to be like that on this site and board. You don't have to come up with a response instantaneously, so you have lots of time to think and write your posts throughly and sensibly, rather than insult half the thread and post a bunch of stereotypes... when you know better!

I don't care for your opinion
>Being so sensitive that a few naughty words must mean "buttanger"
See above, your opinion means fuck all

Not at all. I just disagree with the glamorisation of mental illness

Well, of course some of it isn't bullshit. Schizophrenics and the like are truly "ill", in that, they can't fit in to society and haven't been able to in the past. "Depression", is a joke though. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it obviously does, but it's not a "mental illness" and shouldn't be in the same category as real mental illness.
Also, I think the majority of folks who claim to be depressed don't actually have true depression (altered brain chemistry and such), they just enjoy procrastination and flapping about in their own failures as it's quite comforting to do so.
There is great comfort in being sad.

My gf is and describes shadow people to me a lot. Even when she's on medication it's still such a cruel thing to have a person get.

Ignoring the 4-year-old tantrums in your post, now we're getting somewhere.

So you do agree that there are some instances in which it is helpful to call something mental illness. But you think it is overused, and in many cases people call something depression when in actual fact you would rather they call it sadness.

So why is it important to you that hallucinations are understood as biological but sadness isn't? Is it because you think that people who have prolonged sadness (e.g., more than a few weeks, basically non stop and impenitrable), should be able to just... Stop it? Does your attitude help them do that?

And do you think that these sorts of experiences of prolonged sadness could be in any way conducive to creativity?

I think it might help if you start using terms like ennui, melancholy, and depression. What you're mad about, as far as I can tell, is that people who are bored are saying that they are depressed to fit an aesthetic and lumping themselves with people who literally can't think or function in society. Either way, both boil down to chemical imbalances and this has been clearly documented. Obviously clinical depression is way worse than run of the mill ennui, which is what shitty teens and young adults get, but there's no way you could reasonably discount nauseous, suicidal, drones of people as having nothing wrong with them.

>>Schizotypal personality disorder (STPD) or schizotypal disorder is a mental disorder characterized by severe social anxiety, paranoia, and often unconventional beliefs. People with this disorder feel extreme discomfort with maintaining close relationships with people, mainly because they think that their peers harbor negative thoughts towards them, so they avoid forming them. Peculiar speech mannerisms and odd modes of dress are also symptoms of this disorder. In some cases, people with STPD may react oddly in conversations, not respond, or talk to themselves.[1]
>>They frequently interpret situations as being strange or having unusual meaning for them; paranormal and superstitious beliefs are common. Such people frequently seek medical attention for anxiety or depression instead of their personality disorder.[2] Schizotypal personality disorder occurs in approximately 99% of the general population and is more common in basically everybody since 2007.[3]
There, I fixed it

Is there such a thing as mind?

If you answer yes, then the second question is, do the different functions of the mind happen differently for different people?

If you answer yes, then it follows that there would be a spectrum where each person's mind faculties could function in more or less novel ways, and the overall amalgamation of their mind functions being more or less novel.

It also follows that there would then be situations in which it makes sense to say that one or a combination of those functions would be problematic. We can call this mental illness.

The problem is defining mental illness, that is, who is calling the mind function problematic?

For example, the individual might say that their mind is functioning in a way that is causing them distress. The limitation of this is that we might get malingerers. We also might get people who have no distress but their mind is problematic to other people (e.g., they experience no empathy or remorse).

Or, other people might say that the individuals mind is problematic. This is limited because in its extreme form we have dystopian thought police, and society dictating what is healthy or not for each person's own psychology. It also allows the possibility for high functioning peoples distress to be swept under the rug.

The other thing is that the word "illness" can be loaded with Western medical and Newtonian conceptualisations of reality and the self. These may or may not lead to helpful approaches towards problems of mind.

So this issue about when mind functioning can be understood as problematic, and how we approach the problem, is a very complex thing. It has been debated for a very long time and taps into many existential and societal movements.

really creative people tend to be shunned/misunderstood but society which induces the said 'mental illness' state. this is the only connection, but a very real one.