For the average student, is a STEM PhD degree just a meme...

>medical school in the Caribbean
nigga, you might as well get an engineering technology degree while you are at it.

S, M:
Undergrad: Enjoy being unemployed with English majors. Don't listen to those idiots who think you're more employable than a Music or English undergrad major. You're not.

Master's degree: This is your bread and butter and when you become employable. If you're not aiming at this level, change your major. If you have no passion to get a Master's degree, change your major. Business degree (Accounting/Finance) from a no name school is better than an undergrad degree in Science or Math. If you hate Science or Math and have zero passion in the fields, DON'T FUCKING GET A SCIENCE OR MATH DEGREE.

Ph.D: Great if you plan on teaching at the university level or planning on research. Either way, a Master's degree can get you a teaching job at the high school level up to Community College in the United States. Only get a Ph.D if someone else is paying for all of it.

Technology/Engineering:
Undergrad: Elite if you have projects already. Relevant projects will get you hired in a heart beat by an employer. Of course, you'll be working under someone with a Master's degree in T/E. Truth is you probably be doing the grunt work and will not actually do any of the actual Engineering projects. Well, at least a leader of the project at least.

Master's degree: This is where you get far more respect. You'll get the jobs where you could be the leader of an Engineering/Tech project. at least you'll be involved unlike the bitch work of an undergrad Engineer/Tech.

Ph.D: Complete waste of time unless you plan on teaching.

>500$ USD a month will let you eat caviar for breakfast lunch dinner and drive a decent 2000s BMW.
What kind of BMW can you buy on a salary of $500/month? It's not like BMW drops the price because of where you live.

where are these cities so i can go there and retire right now.

What you're describing is exactly how businesses generally work. Clearly you don't understand business.

>eat caviar for breakfast lunch dinner and drive a decent 2000s BMW
lol no. you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Always fun to read assblasted humanitards play out their bitter fantasies online. Now go get my burger, bubba.

>paying
>for a STEM PhD
???

Is this a meme? I feel like people are exaggerating about how hard it is to get a residency.

ehh, worst case scenario is you join the military.

PhDs are free retard and you get paid for the duration...

Masters students are weak as fuck, if you want to do any interesting research you need a PhD.

Most jobs don't involve scientific research as already said many times ITT.
>Masters students are weak as fuck
But then again I'm replying to a memeing high-school embryo, so not surprising.

im not the guy you're responding to but i want to say that your lack of reading comprehension combined with your lame insults make you look like the dumb one

>For the average student, is a STEM PhD degree just a meme?
Yes, for the 'average' student, who can only gain admission to some middle-of-the-road cow college, a PhD is a meme. But then again, if you're just plain average, your whole life will be a meme.

Most US or canadian medical schools have close to 100 percent matching rates.

Most carribean schools have a 50% match rate. And this isn't even stating the quality of said matches.

I didn't apply to any grad schools this past fall. I was considering medical school in the caribbean--I still have time to submit an application. I've also applied to about 4 dozen places for entry level QC/Chemist jobs. Nothing so far. Job prospects in the inland empire suck.

Honestly 50% chance of making 300k a year (not meme) sounds pretty good to me. Just have to not be a retard who is in the bottom of his class.

I can speak to biomedical research and the biotech industry.

>For the average student, is a STEM PhD degree just a meme?

I don't think so. Overall, STEM PhDs earn higher salaries and have higher rates of employment than STEM BAs/BSes/MSes.

I think that seniors in undergrad (applying to grad school) and first-year STEM PhDs going to grad school to get tenure-track faculty jobs is a meme. In biomedical research, only ~7% of PhDs end up in those positions.

>Are grad schools just a racket for school profit and cheap skilled labor?

Not quite from PhD training. STEM PhD students have free tuition and are on stipend -- and, students in PhD programs in biomedical research typically have relatively competitive stipends (~$22k - $32k/yr) compared to physical sciences and math. Given that, plus the amount of time and relative level of productivity (or rather, lack thereof) for a PhD student in his or her training, PhD programs really aren't rackets for profit and cheap labor.

The post-doc "treadmill", however, is absolutely a racket for profit and cheap skilled labor. The limited faculty positions has yielded a supersaturated job market for post-docs. The majority of PhD students will go on to do at least one post-doc -- and two or three aren't uncommon -- before either landing a faculty job, or (more likely) going into R&D in industry. Post-docs are cheap, trained, and will work like their livelihoods and careers are on the line (because, of course, they are).

>If you hate Science or Math and have zero passion in the fields, DON'T FUCKING GET A SCIENCE OR MATH DEGREE.

thats bad advice.

>medical school in the Caribbean
It would be nice if there was a special asterisk next to MDs who got their degree from the Caribbeans. Like the "as-is" designation for used cars that don't pass inspection, people should know if they are getting a subpar product.

> school profit
You know they pay you to get a PhD right?

Average students shouldn't br bothering with the PhD track

The medical school round for US schools just started user. The application deadline for most is November. Why aren't you considering ones in the US?

But there are other catches as well. Many carribean schools just want to take your money the first year and then let you drop out as you find yourself unable to get any loans to pay for the next year. Then of those left who have spent 200k plus they get a fifty fifty chance of getting a job as a family practiner, internal medicine or at best a child neurologist IE migrane medicine pill dispenser. These specialities are closer to 200k than 300k.

and they still profit off of you if you teach for them.

It's not profiting OFF of you if they pay you. It would be if they told you "teach for us and we will give you a piece of paper that says you're good in your subject".
They're literally paying you to do stuff and git gud at stuff, that's how jobs work.

>getting a Ph.D. To get a job
Lmao
>some shit humanities degree
Wew lad.
Ph. Stands for philsophy

good point

I did not know this. I'm learning much from this thread, thanks guys.

While STEM PhDs do get paid stripends non-STEM PhDs are far more likely to become a professor, its almost 50/50

People really seem to not understand what a PhD program really is, PhD program IS a job.
You are hired by the institution to do research and teach.
PhD is a meme if you do not want to either be a professor or a researcher.
There are also fellowships which help pay living expenses

>being over 23
>deluding yourself into thinking there is something good down the road if you just do x degree

We are all brainlets hating on each other while Chad and Stacy married, reproduced and now live in a cozy house.

What about someone in EE looking to do research in industry and not stay in academia? Do I need a PhD to get into these positions or is a MS enough? Planning on RF, electromagnetics, or photonics if it matters

>no clue wtf to do with my life
shit hit hard man
the only thing I REALLY learned in uni was that I don't like working in science at all
should've just joined the army

>Work Experience

But every entry level job wants somebody with at least a masters. You can't get work experience without grad school anymore, at least in my field.

kek

Why are you limiting yourself to the Inland Empire or the Caribbean? Have you considered applying elsewhere?

Masters students are weak as fuck. En route to a PhD you finish the masters studies in 1.5 years. Then you do nothing but NSF funded research which in turn requires you to devote your entire life to reading research papers.

For example in a graduate AI class you will probably use Russell & Norvig as the text book. We will all get the cursory understanding from the course but then as a PhD you will have to pretty much read all of the references, really dive into the nasty math, etc. As a masters student you might have your intellectual interest piqued but at the end of the day you're going to try and work at some Big 4 software company as a developer, not as a researcher (at say Google, which is where PhDs matter).

Also, another tip for you undergrads. Grad school is graded on a curve so that the lowest grade you will ever see in STEM is a C, which is the equivalent of a 0% F. Since masters students only need coursework, they essentially are stamp collecting and only need the equivalent of an undergrad D-C average to get the degree...

Almost any kind of research position will require a PhD. If it doesn't directly, it does so indirectly because someone with a PhD will steal the position from those who don't have it.

i have, im just afraid to move without becoming financially stable

For the most part I agree with this but I have a question about PhD's in engineering.

You mention that PhD's are good for research, what about engineers who are looking to go into research? Would that make a PhD useful for an engineer?

No idea who you are and what makes you think you know all this stuff but you sound like you know what you're saying kek

How do I butter up my professors so that they'll give me glowing references? Let's skip the obvious "suck their dicks" response, pls.

Be interesting, contribute something new to your field.
ITT brainlets with the "press butan recieve bacun" ask how to maximise their pay without understanding what education, research and teaching really mean.

this

>STEM PhD degree just a meme?
Yes.
>Are grad schools just a racket for school profit and cheap skilled labor?
Yes.

Or you could just not be in America? Student loans really fuck people up, it seems. Here in Austria university is free.

>should've just joined the army
thinking of the same thing, or Air force. College is just too damn boring, I'd rather just start working or go back in the future when I have a ""passion."" The nail in the coffin is that most majors suck anyways. The ones that don't offer mostly boring jobs, which (from what I understand) engineering and accounting fall under. Don't care about the money anymore

Sure, the odds of a STEM PhD getting a tenure-track faculty position, specifically in biomedical research, are low. (Most recent figures I've seen are at ~7%.) I don't have figures for non-STEM PhDs, so for this argument I can take you at your word.

One key point, that I didn't really develop in my original post, is that there is a job market for STEM PhDs in biomedical research outside of academia: the entire biotechnology and pharmaceutical industries. First, nowadays to rise to any group leader or director position in industry R&D, you need a PhD. (The exception may be in small start-ups, if you get in early. But, examples of a group leader or director without a PhD are few and decreasing.) In addition, many PhDs go into biotech or big pharma, and jump to the management ladder. This goes to the second point, that there are a number of roles for PhDs in the industry for PhDs not on the lab bench. The scientific training and fluency is needed in all sorts of positions in biotech, including in consulting, finance, business development, patent law, etc.

I could go on, but you get the picture. Now, all of that said, I think that the pill that many PhDs or post-docs have to swallow is that they won't be faculty, and that these jobs actually do exist. When they realize that there are more jobs out there -- many of which pay quite better and offer advantages to the academic lifestyle -- they seem to do fine.

If you are a CS major and LIKE to code , getting a PhD can be a hindrance since most research places do NOT hire PhDs to be code monkeys, they want them doing research.

Yes

No shit retard. That's why you get a PhD so you can transcend the bullshit CRUD AGILE workcycle and actually implement interesting research.

Man im doing a phd in chem starting next year but now i wish i took the pre med shit so i could be going to med school. Being an ER surgeon hackin people up and cheating death and shit sounds way more fun than being a researcher

Yes it is profiting off you. They pay you less money than the tuition they collect from students. You think they're a charity or something?

I've heard many chem docs and post-docs get pissed off with the field. Make sure you get a good supervisor and a good project, this makes the ride a lot smoother and more productive. Enjoy the free experimental drugs.

>PhD
>being something other than a professor or researcher

I literally cant think of anything else you use the degree for except saying "see, im smart"

>PhD program IS a job. You are hired by the institution to do research and teach.
I guess you can think of it that way, but you'll be the lowest paid researcher / teacher ever.

current chemistry PhD student here. Ive heard a saying from other graduate students: "half of people here are depressed, the other half just dont talk about it"

That is pretty much spot on. There is a lot of negativity thrown around by grad students either because they think they should have left years ago, because they dont like their project anymore, or they have an asshole PI that they are just sick of working for.

The biggest joke of all is when they finish their PhD and realize the project they worked on has 0 application in industry. They become completely and utterly unhireable.

Be smart and join a project that will land you a job when you leave. Then use the entirety of your PhD collecting skills to throw into your resume. The group has a history of graduating students into industry? thats a good sign.

last piece of advice, try to do this WITHOUT doing organic chemistry. everyone does organic chemistry because supposedly everyone loves organic for some reason. unless you want to get fucked and chucked by pharma companies for the rest of your life, dont do natural products or total synthesis. there are far more interesting projects in synthesis that will distinguish you from competitors in the job market.

Do you know of any graduate programs that set up students for careers in industry? Although I have a BS in biochem, I'd want to do something in materials science R&D.

You're not really going to be "set-up" for a career in industry by the program. It's your lab and your PI that are going to have much more of an effect, mainly through the nature of the research and how well-connected your PI is. Sure, some programs may host more "alternative career" and non-academic career seminars for PhD students, but I don't think what the program does will make or break your odds of going into industry.

I have comparable background, studied molecular biology and chemistry in undergrad. Now in biophysics PhD program. My program, like most PhD programs, has a number of labs with research that, more or less, can be spun to fit under the umbrella of the discipline. This may be a net positive overall, because it gives students freedom to choose from a wide variety of disciplines. But, it would be remiss to suggest that all labs do work that is of comparable relevance to "industry" (the catch-all term for any non-academic R&D) or that all labs have the same track record of vaulting former students to industry positions.

I think that the students should have a good idea of what they want to get out of the PhD and what they want to do after the PhD by their first year in their programs, because at the end of that year they are making the decision that will effectively shape their graduate career and can determine opportunities post-grad school. In a biophysics program (or, perhaps in a biochemistry program, there's plenty of overlap), joining a lab that does, say, structural and biochemical/biophysical work on protein-ligand interactions would put a student in a much better position for jobs in the biotech industry than a systems biology lab that models gene bursting. This is not to critique the systems lab -- and, I've seen such labs that churn out high-profile post-docs because complex systems is the latest flavor in biophysics -- but it doesn't command the interest from industry, and job opportunities would be different.

Hey now, don't forget the glorified undergrad level expository thesis they sometimes have to write.

What amazes me is people who have never gone through the grad school process, who clearly don't even know how the system is set up, are constantly on this board shitting on grad school because it's different than what they did. That's honestly kind of sad.

Yes we are the lowest paid on the totem pole, but we're also getting a P. h. fucking D.

Given the fact that many people are willing to go ANOTHER 50k in debt for a Masters and we're getting a PhD for free, I think it's a fair trade.

>I can't see what else you would use the degree for
That's like saying "I don't see what else you would go to med school for except being a doctor or looking smart." A PhD is a research training program. It exists for no other reason than to teach you how to be an independent researcher. It's not for credentials to move up to a bigger office at your job or a higher salary.