If you dont have enough to tip...

>nobody is going to serve for under 20/hr
Why would servers deserve anything close to that?

>"I rely on tips to pay my mortgage"

Do you want competent servers or not? They have to make a liveable wage somehow

>driver has shitty manager that can't find him something to do
There is always something to be prepped, washed, or swept in a pizza shop

Because a good server makes close to that depending on whether or not they live in a city.
There's a reason most long-term servers are single mothers that somehow drive newer cars and afford a mortgage. Untaxed income does a fucking lot.

This is why I don't order delivery...always pick up. I feel no obligation to tip when a cook is handing me food over a counter. Servers serve, if they're not serving me they deserve nothing.

Fuck your tip jar.

I mean I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would appear to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. If you show me a piece of paper that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're givin' me, I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise.

>IF YOU CANT AFFORD TO TIP ME THEN DONT EAT HERE

Why the hell not? If I don't eat at your restaurant, you still aren't getting paid either way.

But they're talking about delivery, just order carry out???

>I mean I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up
They also tax profit from investment, stock trading, gambling, and literally anything that can be construed as income.
Tips are income.
Income is taxable.
The only reason servers get away with not getting taxed on most of it is because of cash tips they simply don't report, which is a felony.

This dude probably has a coffin loan on his home.

Most people do.

>tfw always slightly overtip because I know others jip them
>tfw I know I'm helping a fledgling single mother have more pocket change
>tfw I tip places I frequent often so I get good service
>tfw I have chosen to order out or get fast food instead because I don't feel like tipping

It hurts me to say this, but maybe Europe and non tipping countries are on to something. Just pay them decent wages, and I'll throw on some extra for exceptional service.

>Lives on tips, probably has a 30 year ARM on his house

Fucking hell that is grim.

>Just pay them decent wages
And suddenly the restaurant industry collapses in on itself as food prices jump 40% and nobody eats out anymore.
Tips pay most service workers substantially more than they'd make on a proper wage, at significantly fewer hours. Pretty much everybody is aware of this except bad servers and entitled cunts.

>Tips are usually 15-20% of the meal
>Food prices jump up 40%

???

>I mean I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up.
It's income, why wouldn't it be taxed? The government taxes the god damn interest on my bank account for god's sake.

The restaurant industry could use a good purging anyway.

Because now the business has to foot the entire bill of paying all of their servers real hourly wages no matter how much business comes through, which adds up real fucking fast.
This would be especially disastrous to any non-chain restaurant, small cafes would go extinct in a heartbeat.

At Starbucks it's just an envelope full of cash on top of a paycheck. It's your call to declare it or not on your taxes.

Fucking idiot. You cannot get a car or mortgage unless you report that income and pay taxes on it. Otherwise when you go to get the mortgage they will laugh at you when your tax report says you make only 10k a year

Nearly all restaurants use computers to process orders nowadays. How difficult would it be for a restaurant to implement a system where each bill that goes through the system has a server(s) attached to it, and then they get some predetermined percentage of that bill as pay? Effectively the restaurant tips its workers instead of the customer.

They are required to cover up to federal minimum wage if the tips don't anyway.

I realize that tips are generally undeclared, I just don't see why someone would think that it's fucked up that tips would be taxed.

I worked at a movie theater for 7 years on minimum wage (and meager raises) and got no tips of any kind. I didn't bitch and complain about not making enough, I just made an effort to get a better job. If all your capable of is bringing people food then you deserve to live in abject poverty. Half the time my service is bad anyway so I really feel I wouldn't be missing out if a part-time high school student brought me food instead.

Okay but where is the restaurant going to get the money to tip their servers now? They certainly dont want to suddenly generate less profit, so theyre going to raise the prices on food. That means fewer customers which means less revenue which means fewer staff and can feasibly lead to the place just shutting down

Do you have any evidence that raising prices while simultaneously discouraging mandatory tipping would lead to less people going out to restaurants?

>Untaxed income does a fucking lot.

This is an excellent reason to hate servers. I'm sure there do exist serves that report their tips, but everyone I know just pockets the money while the rest of us pay our fair share of taxes. I worked with a girl who waited tables on the side and she kept all her tips in cash at home so there was no way the government could find out and tax her. Then she got robbed and it all got stolen and I had absolutely no sympathy for her.

>Declare state minimum wage
>Bank sees you're a server
>They see how much you actually put in your account
>Okay but we want a bigger down payment
>Here you go!
And they'll give somebody with basically no income and a credit rating of 300 a fucking car, have you never dealt with lizard salesmen?

Don't forget that inheritance tax. You know that money that your relative already paid tax on. It needs to be taxed again because of reasons.

Inheritance tax is mega-bullshit but it's there to prevent dynastic wealth monopolies, which is a fairly good reason.
It should go to like, public education or something specific though, it shouldn't just get thrown into the federal budget to get wasted on paying for white house dinners.

Property tax is just downright theft though.
>Hey, I see you bought a thing that is now a private possession!
>You're gunna have to keep paying taxes on it if you want to keep it though.

Then the restaurant owner has shit business sense, doesn't realize making less money is better than making no money, and deserves to fail.

You do realize that there are many places in the world where tipping is not the norm and there simultaneously exist both restaurants and servers right?

Yes, and in those places of the world people are already accustomed to paying $6 for a tomato.
You make a price hike change in the states and the fat fucks visiting restaurants for every meal are gunna stop coming because "I remember when my usual was $4 cheaper! Fuck this place!" and the restaurant tanks.

they hire drivers, don't pay gas
driver has no job
delivery service stops
business slows down
they eventually have to pay drivers and pay for the gas needed to deliver

just don't participate, choke the motherfuckers out

It's all just a way for the government to make money. Rich people can afford "creative accountants" to ensure the majority of the wealth gets passed to their children. There are too many wealthy families to convince me that it is an effective way to limit ones inheritance. All tax is pretty much theft because you don't get to choose, you just pay it or you go to jail, though it's one of those necessary evils that is required to make a society function effectively.

>Food would become insanly expensive.
Good, maybe people would learn to cook instead.

>Raise delivery fee by another $2
>You end up having to pay what amounts to a shitty tip anyways
Businesses always pass off increased expenses to the consumers, they very rarely decide to just absorb it.

>just don't participate, choke the motherfuckers out

See, I knew there'd be an user in this thread that understand how this works. Drivers, please feel free to keep speaking for the business you work at that you don't want any of their money if you, the hired help doesn't get a cut of it directly from the customer.

Then they go under. Pretty straightforward.

Yeah but servers are junkies and alcoholics. Cooks are no better, but at least they have a skill other than a voice box capable of saying "would you like to start with something to drink".

Give a server a saute pan and they'd probably find a way to make Meth. Give it to a cook and they'll make you ox tail with a demi glaze and basmati rice...probably sneak in some herbs de provonce.

Servers are human garbage and cum dumpsters.

>Then they go under
With delivery food, no, they wouldnt. Knowing you don't tip for delivery but have to pay $5 to have it delivered would either
A) Have little to no effect, since there's already a $2.50-3 fee and most people tip $2-3 already, so their wallet feels no change
B) Get a lot of delivery drivers fired from fewer delivery calls, and increased carryout orders

Getting rid of tipping servers, however, is a wholly different problem because now you have to increase your actual product price.
You have a really shitty understanding of basic microeconomics

>You end up having to pay what amounts to a shitty tip anyways

You already pay a delivery fee. Where does that go?

>Yes, and in those places of the world people are already accustomed to paying $6 for a tomato.

That's not true, I was just in the Balkans and food was a decent price, even for locals. And tipping is a pretty new thing there. Some things were even significantly cheaper that at home. Specifically cured meats, seafood, and dairy. So you just made that up and don't actually know what you're talking about.

>You make a price hike change in the states and the fat fucks ... Fuck this place!" and the restaurant tanks.

Even if this were to happen what would they do? Just not eat at restaurants anymore. Restaurants exist because people want them. I can imagine push back at first but that's because people are generally adverse to sudden change. you add 15% to the price of your meal anyway so why not just pay 15% more. At least I wouldn't have some entitled server complaining that I didn't give them enough.

>now you have to increase your actual product price.

No they don't, they just make less or no money. They go under if people don't feel like paying an extra $5 for some shitty mango salsa abortion.

I still don't get the point of tipping. Why are you supposed to pay extra money to a person whose entire role in the food is moving it from point A to B.
I don't get why you need to pay somebody who is getting paid to do a job.

>I'm so poor that I absolutely NEED that extra ten percent
>But not so poor that I can't afford to own multiple pets and a home

Yes but you'd be effectively homogenizing the entire food industry...it would still exist, but it would be shitty.

Ironically this would probably increase the popularity of food trucks.

He doesn't really own that home. Not for another 30+ years

>That's not true, I was just in an ex-soviet shithole where the average wage is ~$450 USD and food was a decent price

How applicable.

>Untaxed income does a fucking lot.
then remove the fucking income tax on minimum wage instead of holding your customers hostage for gibs