Translingual prosody thread

Why don't we have a thread comparing and discussing the prosodic features of our native language? I'm mostly thinking of prosodic features of the traditional poetry (including, not only meter, but also things like rhyme, alliteration, or pitch cadence as in Classical Chinese poetry), but information about the modernist innovations would be cool too. I'm not sure if this should go on Veeky Forums or /int/, but it seems like there are enough people with a language other than English as their mother tongue for this to work. Discussion of classical languages is also more than welcome.

For my part, as a student of Spanish, I know that the traditional prosody is more or less like that of French--i.e., neither stress nor syllable length (which is of course nonexistent anyways) are taken into account, and the only metrical restraints are syllable count and caesurae. I also know that by far the most common Spanish meter is el octavosílabo, just as the most "natural" meter in English is blank verse.

That said, I know that many modernists and proto-modernists imported classical meters (dactylic hexameter, iambic trimeter, etc.), using the stress accent of Spanish. Perhaps the most notable of these (correct me if you disagree) is Rubén Darío, whom I think I like, although I've only read a handful of poems of his since I have to look up a word every other line. That said, my question is, which of these "classical" meters has been the most successful in Spanish, and which is the most "natural"? Is there any particular stress pattern that you think is most natural in Spanish, as iambic is in English?

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By the way, if any ESL learners have any questions about the finer points of English prosody (impoverished as it is), feel free to ask.

stop.

Why?

Spanish's "iambic pentameter" would be endecasilabos, not octosilabos. In any case, both take into account stresses, so I don't know why you mentioned it.

Well, I understand that endecasílabo is more like iambic pentameter, but this is what the Spanish Wikipedia says (perhaps you think it is wrong):

Los versos más usados del arte menor en castellano son, por este orden, el octosílabo (el verso más fácil y natural del castellano, ya que coincide con el grupo fónico menor del idioma, por lo cual ha sido usado durante toda la historia de la literatura en lengua castellana)

And also, you're right that there is an accentual component in Spanish verse that I had forgotten, however it is usually less strict than that in English. For example, the article on endecasílabo lists three kinds depending on the placement of only the two main accents. Whereas I would personally say that traditional English verse depends much more on the number of stresses per line and the spacing between them, rather than the exact number of syllables.

Most successful classical metering: refer to the Soneto.
Most natural: To me, being Argentinian, combined octosílabos and decasílabos with licenses (often broken in 7+9, 9+11, etc., with an added syllabe, or even implying a rest taking the space of a missing one), as they are the most used in our folkloric tradition.

This. The endecasílabo is way more prominent in the Spanish high art. I do agree with the OP however, that despite the stress having some importance, it's kind of secondary when compared to the role it takes in the English langue (i.e.: it's not felt as strongly).

That aside, how do you guys feel about rhyme? I often find that asides from the works of some of the true masters, most of the time rhyming in Spanish feels kind of corny or forced (whereas in French, German, or English it comes more naturally).
On the other side, it lends itself much better for long and lyrical phrasing (like Italian or Portuguese), and overall just works better in loose structures compared with some of the other languages (say, for example, I consider it to be the only tongue apart from Japanese where haikus do work).

>yfw you realise russia and ireland rule lit because they pair slender and broad vowel sounds throughout every word of their language just in case poetry arises
>yfw no face because you carry the shame of your romance ancestors

That last thought is very interesting, because the commonplace is that rhyming is natural and easy in Romance languages, whereas in Germanic languages it is much harder to do (whence, for example, Shakespeare's modification of the sonnet). Personally, when I read poems in Spanish, I find the rhyme pretty unobtrusive, and indeed less so than in English, but of course I'm not a native.

Perhaps it's because you're enamored with the language that you don't know quite as well that you perceive it as having superior prosodic qualities? it's at least interesting that a native English speaker and a native Spanish speaker have inverse ideas about each language.

Actually, some Spanish poets have tried to adapt feet (aka clauses) into their language and, though most have failed, there are some experiments worth highlighting and you're right, Darío is a really good example (he is probably one of the greatest innovators when it comes to Spanish meter) along with Lugones, which was the first poet to try accentual rhythm in Spanish.

Consider the first lines of ''Canción del Jinete'' by García Lorca, which I consider the best attempt so far:

Córdoba.
¯ ˘
Lejana y sola.
˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘

Jaca negra, luna grande,
¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘
y aceitunas en mi alforja.
¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘
Aunque sepa los caminos
¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ˘ ˘ ¯ ˘
yo nunca llegaré a Córdoba.
˘ ¯ ˘ ˘ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ˘

Por el llano, por el viento,
¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘
jaca negra, luna roja.
¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘
La muerte me está mirando
(˘) ¯ ˘ ˘ ¯ ˘ ¯ ˘
desde las torres de Córdoba.
¯ ˘ ˘ ¯ ˘ ˘ ¯ ˘ ˘
The rhythm is trochaic in the first four and a half verses, as the POV character is riding to Córdoba. Being the trochee the fastest rhythm, this is linked to the speed that the action of riding implies.
Next, there are two peonic clauses ( ¯ ˘ ˘ ˘ ) mixed with more trochees: since peonic are the slowest feet and, along with the trochees, it creates instability and agitation in the pace.
Then, it mixes trochees and dactyles for two more verses, keeping the sensation of speed, but using the calm and slow-paced rhythm of dactyls when talking about death.